RE: Ecoboost Formula Ford coming?

[xRIEx]

andylaurence said:

It's not a £50k car. The rolling chassis is £33k+VAT and an engine isn't going to be much.

The 1.6 EcoBoost mentioned on that site is £8600 + VAT - how much less do you think the 1l will be as a crate engine, with the 1.6 turbo?

£33K + VAT is £39600 including - how do you think they will provide an engine, all the road legal bits and an IVA (£450) for £40K?

Remember, Ford don't build the chassis, independent motorsport companies build them to Formula spec. The new chassis is a mix of steel tube and carbon fibre, (I think); it's not like they're going to create tooling for a production run of 50.

[McSam]

Skater12 said:

Agreed, individual SVA tests are most likely, but I reckon if they did more than 50 cars this would raise a few eyebrows and the examining body would say "you're starting to take the piss now guys".

IVA is a certainty, you simply won't get this type approved - but you can do 300 IVAs a year, and Ford don't have anything else that requires it, so no worries about the production numbers

I think it looks fantastic, and is a brilliant showcase for the engine. I can see them having their hands snapped off for all fifty within a week, and hopefully agreeing to do a few more.

I also agree with £50k as being the reasonable OTR price, though it is quite possible they'd punt it out for more.

[Skater12]

Anyone else had a look at this and started to think how much time and money would be needed to make your own version ?

Hmmm, the gogs start churning !

http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/mot...

[J-P]

McSam said:

Skater12 said:

Agreed, individual SVA tests are most likely, but I reckon if they did more than 50 cars this would raise a few eyebrows and the examining body would say "you're starting to take the piss now guys".

IVA is a certainty, you simply won't get this type approved - but you can do 300 IVAs a year, and Ford don't have anything else that requires it, so no worries about the production numbers

I think it looks fantastic, and is a brilliant showcase for the engine. I can see them having their hands snapped off for all fifty within a week, and hopefully agreeing to do a few more.

I also agree with £50k as being the reasonable OTR price, though it is quite possible they'd punt it out for more.

I reckon they could sell quite a few of these things too! I'd have thought 300 a year wouoldn't be that hard with the enormous infrastructure already in place. At £50k I think it would be worth a punt!

[chevronb37]

Am I right in thinking Mygale are currently the only manufacturer producing an Ecoboost FFord chassis? Slightly odd front suspension arrangement.

[CDP]

xRIEx said:

andylaurence said:

It's not a £50k car. The rolling chassis is £33k+VAT and an engine isn't going to be much.

The 1.6 EcoBoost mentioned on that site is £8600 + VAT - how much less do you think the 1l will be as a crate engine, with the 1.6 turbo?

£33K + VAT is £39600 including - how do you think they will provide an engine, all the road legal bits and an IVA (£450) for £40K?

Remember, Ford don't build the chassis, independent motorsport companies build them to Formula spec. The new chassis is a mix of steel tube and carbon fibre, (I think); it's not like they're going to create tooling for a production run of 50.

That price is for a race engine and sounds excessive to me, even if it's a one off. Hand built 450bhp 2.5 litre V8s are under 20K, a run of "road spec" engines should be a lot less.

[snotrag]

Where I work we put 2 or 3 vehicles through an IVA test every day, 5 days a week. It's not an issue for this car.

[bravonovember]

chevronb37 said:

Am I right in thinking Mygale are currently the only manufacturer producing an Ecoboost FFord chassis? Slightly odd front suspension arrangement.

Yeh it's a French Mygale chassis.

[xRIEx]

CDP said:

That price is for a race engine and sounds excessive to me, even if it's a one off. Hand built 450bhp 2.5 litre V8s are under 20K, a run of "road spec" engines should be a lot less.

From Wiki:
"For 2012 the fourth engine generation is launched with the Ecoboost 1600 direct-injection turbo engine. By far the most technologically advanced engine in the history of the Formula, it uses controlled engine mapping to deliver around 165 bhp for all cars. As a modern, high performance engine, the engine runs well within its manufacturing tolerances, which should ensure greater reliability and lower maintenance costs than any of its predecessors. It also means, for the first time in the history of the Formula, that all of the engine's internals will be standard production parts."

[kambites]

chevronb37 said:

Am I right in thinking Mygale are currently the only manufacturer producing an Ecoboost FFord chassis? Slightly odd front suspension arrangement.

Is it odd? Looks like a standard push-rod double wishbone setup to me; except that the steering arm appears to be going to the top of the upright rather than the bottom, I suppose.

[Cotic]

xRIEx said:

From Wiki:
"For 2012 the fourth engine generation is launched with the Ecoboost 1600 direct-injection turbo engine. By far the most technologically advanced engine in the history of the Formula, it uses controlled engine mapping to deliver around 165 bhp for all cars. As a modern, high performance engine, the engine runs well within its manufacturing tolerances, which should ensure greater reliability and lower maintenance costs than any of its predecessors. It also means, for the first time in the history of the Formula, that all of the engine's internals will be standard production parts."

So, let me get this right. Ford take a 1.0 three-pot with 125BHP, stick a turbo from a 1.6 four-pot with 165BHP on it and they get 205BHP?

Some kind of magic involved there, and no mistake.

[CDP]

xRIEx said:

CDP said:

That price is for a race engine and sounds excessive to me, even if it's a one off. Hand built 450bhp 2.5 litre V8s are under 20K, a run of "road spec" engines should be a lot less.

From Wiki:
"For 2012 the fourth engine generation is launched with the Ecoboost 1600 direct-injection turbo engine. By far the most technologically advanced engine in the history of the Formula, it uses controlled engine mapping to deliver around 165 bhp for all cars. As a modern, high performance engine, the engine runs well within its manufacturing tolerances, which should ensure greater reliability and lower maintenance costs than any of its predecessors. It also means, for the first time in the history of the Formula, that all of the engine's internals will be standard production parts."

Still sounds very expensive, especially if it's all standard production parts. If Ford are planning to build 10 million of these engines you know the bits will be as cheap as they can be. Almost the price of an entire Fiesta containing that engine. It may well be blueprinted but if they're doing a few dozen it gets cheaper. My blue-printed engine was a one off and about 2 grand including VAT; only the block, crank and head were secondhand.

http://www.roadcraftuk.co.uk/index.php?route=produ...

http://www.fordracingparts.com/crateengine/main.as...

Manufacturing tolerances are getting so good these days I wonder what the production spread of the perfomance of a modern engine is. I bet there are people here who could answer that.

[xRIEx]

Cotic said:

xRIEx said:

From Wiki:
"For 2012 the fourth engine generation is launched with the Ecoboost 1600 direct-injection turbo engine. By far the most technologically advanced engine in the history of the Formula, it uses controlled engine mapping to deliver around 165 bhp for all cars. As a modern, high performance engine, the engine runs well within its manufacturing tolerances, which should ensure greater reliability and lower maintenance costs than any of its predecessors. It also means, for the first time in the history of the Formula, that all of the engine's internals will be standard production parts."

So, let me get this right. Ford take a 1.0 three-pot with 125BHP, stick a turbo from a 1.6 four-pot with 165BHP on it and they get 205BHP?

Some kind of magic involved there, and no mistake.

The production 1.6 is quoted between 150 and 180, depending on market and model; I suspect that "controlled engine mapping" means restricted to ensure a level playing field in the racing.

CDP said:

Still sounds very expensive, especially if it's all standard production parts.

It does, although I don't know what in the way of ancillaries are included in that price. It may include engine management, would that run to a grand or so?

[CBR JGWRR]

Cotic said:

xRIEx said:

From Wiki:
"For 2012 the fourth engine generation is launched with the Ecoboost 1600 direct-injection turbo engine. By far the most technologically advanced engine in the history of the Formula, it uses controlled engine mapping to deliver around 165 bhp for all cars. As a modern, high performance engine, the engine runs well within its manufacturing tolerances, which should ensure greater reliability and lower maintenance costs than any of its predecessors. It also means, for the first time in the history of the Formula, that all of the engine's internals will be standard production parts."

So, let me get this right. Ford take a 1.0 three-pot with 125BHP, stick a turbo from a 1.6 four-pot with 165BHP on it and they get 205BHP?

Some kind of magic involved there, and no mistake.

Not really, up boost levels a bit, make it rev a bit more, easy.


Also, consider the purpose of formula ford racing itself - most people in it are just starting out in car racing, you don't want too much power, especially with only 4 or 5 hundred kgs, driver dependant.

This isn't the first time they've had 200 plus bhp from the 1.0 lump either, IIRC.

[GBarber]

Wonder what it'd be like if you could buy these engines out a crate..
Would love one in my Mini.

[stevevx220]

" love my VX for 40 mpg"


Averaged 29 mpg in mine & im an old git!

[sandersc74]

STUPID QUESTION....

Why would you want one of these over a Radical?

[jontysafe]

Krikkit said:

M@1975 said:

I think my erm.. success ballast would prohibit ownershi9p of one of these.

here, have another! I`m going to steal that one if you don`t mind sir?

[DJRC]

Most of my commute to work is through tunnels underneath Neuchatel...that would be cool.
Weekend and head up into the Alps.

THink Ive found my perfect car That would sound awesome through the tunnels and ditch everything up the Alps!

[vanschpunk]

Ford "8000 examples of the New 2002 Focus RS will be made" - 4500 ish made (at a loss of £4000 car) because they where only 214bhp and didnt make a massive impact

Ford "8000 examples of the New 2009 Focus RS will be made" - nearly 11,500 where made (exceeded expectations and demand forced them to keep making more) They where priced £3500 more than a 4x4 sapphire cosworth was back in in 1991 and yet had 75bhp more.

Ford "50 examples of the road legal Formula Ford will be made" - price it right and the sheer lunacy of the car, will force Ford to make more than what was EVER expected!