RE: Focus RS - the next generation
Discussion
Gizmoish said:
They need to do what they did to the Puma. Big butch arches. Because Racing Ka.
I see what you did there. But seriously, I'd be far more interested in that than an RS Focus. Quite frankly, what is the point of a 350+ bhp front wheel drive car simply for the sake of having a halo model, when everyone knows it's going to be a compromise?
Whilst a part of me thinks the Mk 2 RS looks awesome and I appreciate it goes really well, if you stand and look at it, it's enormous for a C car, and it is inherently limited in it's abilities (which admittedly it makes the most of) by the packaging imposed on it. I think really it should be left as the line in the sand. Start again with the Fiestas and Kas, with those really interesting looking ecoboost engines and a decent diff that doesn't have to literally reshape the laws of physics. Let's talk about fun cars in the true sense of the phrase again, instead of assuming it comes with big numbers, huge arches and tyres wider than my arse.
Edited by masermartin on Thursday 11th October 15:24
dino ferrana said:
Yes, but remind me what happened to Rover shortly after? Was the RWD version a huge success? I seem to remember that despite having a saddle shaped tank and some space for a transmission tunnel, the 75 was a biatch to convert to RWD. I have read stories that it was much more difficult than originall predicted and used some "interesting" engineering solutions (bodge of the centrally mounted damper to locate the axle).
That's a bit like saying "Remind me what happened to all Ford's RWD cars."It was never going to be a big seller because it was top of the range V8 and not a particularly powerful one either but they have kept their price.
Let's not go into why Rover failed but it wasn't down to this car nor the engineering (which worked extremely well).
Edited by LuS1fer on Thursday 11th October 15:34
Not since the Escort Cosworth has the RS badge ignited any fires in my own Pistonhead unfortunately.
I can't quite explain what it is, but its like the fast Focus' are only built to satisfy a market.
The ones before it (RS2000, RS Turbo, Cosworth) seemed to be built for luncacy and fun, as though built by the car nuts who would ultimately buy it.
The Cosworth was last great RS model, and what a car!!
I can't quite explain what it is, but its like the fast Focus' are only built to satisfy a market.
The ones before it (RS2000, RS Turbo, Cosworth) seemed to be built for luncacy and fun, as though built by the car nuts who would ultimately buy it.
The Cosworth was last great RS model, and what a car!!
This will be an interesting car... IMO it needs much more focus (haha) on other things aside horse power.
The engine in the new ST Focus (IMO) is a great bit of kit. The Chassis was good. However I felt everything else was fairly average.
I think they have much more ground to make up, to make an RS model. Perhaps a conscious decision.
The previous RS was a great bit of kit, the sense of occasion, character, fun... It was there.
I honestly was very impressed with the Mk2 RS, the FWD package works extremely well with it.
Will the new one have the the offset character of the Mk2, hmm good question.
I hope its a raw, characterful car!
The engine in the new ST Focus (IMO) is a great bit of kit. The Chassis was good. However I felt everything else was fairly average.
I think they have much more ground to make up, to make an RS model. Perhaps a conscious decision.
The previous RS was a great bit of kit, the sense of occasion, character, fun... It was there.
I honestly was very impressed with the Mk2 RS, the FWD package works extremely well with it.
Will the new one have the the offset character of the Mk2, hmm good question.
I hope its a raw, characterful car!
I was being slightly facetious, but I imagine Rover lost lots of money on that project because the volumes were tiny, but the costs would have been huge. There is no way that Ford would consider changing the Focus to be a RWD layout and put a longitudinal engine in etc. Would probably require re-crash testing under Euro NCAP rules and the engine pointing forwards would put the edge of the block right up against the front of the bonnet. Plus the cost of re-tooling to fit the engine differently would be rather a lot I would say.
I am not saying that many of the things people have suggested wouldn’t be fun, but just trying to add a dose of reality from my decidedly non-expert opinions. Every article on PH generates comments and that is always fun, but so many of them are a bit far fetched. I am sure if Ford could make it pay they would do a 4WD version, but they can’t do it within the parameters they have (I think they would fear law suits these days on RWD).
Now sure, a few people on here say that fuel economy and boot space don’t matter, but all those Dads out there trying to sell the car to a reluctant partner are going to be on a loser from the start if the boot is miniscule or the road tax is enormous. That reduces your market, that makes it less viable for the company. Like it or not, Ford is having a few troubles in Europe at the moment with talks of factory closures and big losses. Adding a new car that loses loads of money would be difficult to sell to the management at the moment IMHO.
I am not saying that many of the things people have suggested wouldn’t be fun, but just trying to add a dose of reality from my decidedly non-expert opinions. Every article on PH generates comments and that is always fun, but so many of them are a bit far fetched. I am sure if Ford could make it pay they would do a 4WD version, but they can’t do it within the parameters they have (I think they would fear law suits these days on RWD).
Now sure, a few people on here say that fuel economy and boot space don’t matter, but all those Dads out there trying to sell the car to a reluctant partner are going to be on a loser from the start if the boot is miniscule or the road tax is enormous. That reduces your market, that makes it less viable for the company. Like it or not, Ford is having a few troubles in Europe at the moment with talks of factory closures and big losses. Adding a new car that loses loads of money would be difficult to sell to the management at the moment IMHO.
TheDoggingFather said:
They really should just crack on and make a Fiesta RS, that would be more appealing.
It would but like my own Fiesta ST, you're conscious that there isn't much room under the bonnet to do as much that is clever. Bigger cars can have bigger clutches and the weight may be more critical on a smaller car.Riknos said:
Cost - surely? And most RS / VXR / Equivalent buyers care more about pub top trumps and traffic light grand prix than they do about handling or even know about the drivetrain?
Drivetrain ..... yeah got a Hornby set ......choo choo ..... is that what you meant? As an owner/buyer pub top trumps is a brilliant game, but the traffic light grand prix's bore me. Much rather be on track, i.e Knockhill. Which is where you can see a few mk2 Focus RS making a mess of 4wd cars coming off the hairpin.
The mk2 or even the new mk3 might never be "the best handling" or have "superb dymanics" but what it did was push the boundries of what FWD can do and it brought big smiles to lots of owners. You know that thing called fun? well the mk2 has it with bells on and i hope the mk3 does the same.
Why aren't they borrowing a 4WD system from those in the business that are expert and established in non-haldex 4x4 already... You have Mistsubishi and Subaru who are masters at this game.
In the same way Subaru went completely the other way with RWD for the BRZ, Ford could quite easily do the same with 4x4 for the new RS.
It's all about the bottom line though but i've no doubts they would make a decent profit on a 4x4 RS, which i'm pretty sure once having gone 4x4 they would sell like hotcakes, and i'm sure buyers would pay a premium for the 4x4 capability.
In the same way Subaru went completely the other way with RWD for the BRZ, Ford could quite easily do the same with 4x4 for the new RS.
It's all about the bottom line though but i've no doubts they would make a decent profit on a 4x4 RS, which i'm pretty sure once having gone 4x4 they would sell like hotcakes, and i'm sure buyers would pay a premium for the 4x4 capability.
Regiment said:
What makes the Ford Focus RS, any of the generations, a "giant-slaying" vehicle, when it struggles to beat any of its much less powerful competition?
It's just a standard hot-hatch sold to people who care more about outrageous style and hp figures than "slaying giants" on the track or on the road.
"when it struggles to beat any of its much less powerful competition?"It's just a standard hot-hatch sold to people who care more about outrageous style and hp figures than "slaying giants" on the track or on the road.
Like what? The RS is all about outrageous style and HP figures. If you don't like that - buy a rep-mobile.
LuS1fer said:
Funny how Rover managed to convert the 75 to a RWD V8 for about 5 shillings then.
I seem to remember that was only viable becasue they'd originally designed in a massive great crease down the centre of the care to give it some rigidity. This then was bodged a bit to run the transmission tunnel. I imagine that modern (as in 'not-Rover') design allows for body shells to be rigid enough without this tunnel, so your typical FWD hatchback won't have it.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff