RE: Prodrive to buy Cosworth?
Discussion
ScoobieWRX said:
For me Prodrive and Cosworth would be the best thing that could possibly happen, specially in Subaru terms. I'd love to see Prodrive get back in Subaru
Wasn't the 'falling out' between Subaru and Prodrive fairly major?SuperchargedVR6 said:
So which of the many Cosworths was responsible for the Sierra / Escort 'Cosworth' ?
At least the bit that made the engines? I don't know if it's still the case, but they used to switch the staff around on the lines to make sure everything was at a Cosworth standard. Means a run of YBs would be put together by F1 engineers 
M@1975 said:
Did i really just see the daily fail quoted on PH?
COSWORTH CAUSES CANCER!"Would be great to see it back in British hands and steered by someone with Richards' deft touch when it comes to iconic brands."
Except, as David Richards made clear in the original interview, Cosworth Racing Ltd does not appear to own the brand, iconic or otherwise.
The brand is owned by either Audi or Mahle, depending on whether Mahle bought it in 2004 when they acquired Cosworth Technology off VAG.
Except, as David Richards made clear in the original interview, Cosworth Racing Ltd does not appear to own the brand, iconic or otherwise.
The brand is owned by either Audi or Mahle, depending on whether Mahle bought it in 2004 when they acquired Cosworth Technology off VAG.
WhereamI said:
It doesn't need saving, it's a profitable business, nobody is going to shut it down.
Exactly. It is their parent that needs to sell assets to pay down leverage. They tried to float it as this gives the best valuation but the market isn't right as the EU car market is contracting and most Western defence budgets are being cut etc so it is too difficult a sale.
There are several firms that would like Cosworth but these are good firms and are certainly not going to pay anywhere near the price the parent was trying to float it for. Plus, the chances of a bidding war are slim in this sector at this time.
Unless they sell it to the Far East then any US or EU buyer will not be paying anywhere near the numbers mentioned to date.
mark3man said:
sideways sid said:
"Would be great to see it back in British hands"
Isn't Prodrive owned by Kuwait Sovereign Funds?
You may be confusing them with the Aston Martin ownership, which is largely the Kuwaiti Civil Service Pension Fund but under different names. Isn't Prodrive owned by Kuwait Sovereign Funds?
Prodrive carry a great deal of debt but their defence contracts side is a good 'merge' with Prodrive - albeit a declining market.
Cosworth adventures show what happens when accountants take over from engineers. Summed up by 'we can make it far more profitably, but the only snag is, no one wants to buy it'
Thanks for clarifying.
DR would be getting the Cosworth brand. That was always owned by the Ford side. The Audi owned Cosworth Technology used the brand under licence for continuity I guess but Audi had Quattro as their performance brand anyway. Once Cosworth Racing and Cosworth Technology were both sold on the original agreement between Ford and Audi dissolved and the CT became Mahle Powertrain. MPT own the production facility at Wellingborough where the YB and Aston V12s were built and they also own the foundry in Worcester which still has the rights to the Coscast casting process.
As you may have noticed Max Torque works for the splinter faction of Cosworth directors who jumped ship during the great divide and formed Integral Powertrain, but then again Cosworth (either of them) has always been a great training ground for engineers and Ilmor was also born out of the departure of 2 Cosworth engineers in the late 70s.
I'm not sure Prodrive is the best thing for Cosworth right now. After the way Prodrive shrank abruptly 5 years ago and lost a lot of its consultancy business (re-spawning Tickford in MK along the way) I wouldn't be surprised to see Cosworth being wound up/sold off again. I've seen quite a few large parties (many foreign) walking up and down St James Mill Road recently so the news of the sell off isn't surprising.
As you may have noticed Max Torque works for the splinter faction of Cosworth directors who jumped ship during the great divide and formed Integral Powertrain, but then again Cosworth (either of them) has always been a great training ground for engineers and Ilmor was also born out of the departure of 2 Cosworth engineers in the late 70s.
I'm not sure Prodrive is the best thing for Cosworth right now. After the way Prodrive shrank abruptly 5 years ago and lost a lot of its consultancy business (re-spawning Tickford in MK along the way) I wouldn't be surprised to see Cosworth being wound up/sold off again. I've seen quite a few large parties (many foreign) walking up and down St James Mill Road recently so the news of the sell off isn't surprising.
Would be cool if they would start selling 'crate motors' like GM/Ford.
I can envision a lot of retrofits into older cars undergoing resto-mods.
Engineer a few hot 4 bangers maybe a straight 6 and pair up with a gearbox manufacturer for the total package. Even in the states people know the name
Cosworth so brand recognition hasn't died.
I can envision a lot of retrofits into older cars undergoing resto-mods.
Engineer a few hot 4 bangers maybe a straight 6 and pair up with a gearbox manufacturer for the total package. Even in the states people know the name
Cosworth so brand recognition hasn't died.
way I see it, Cosworth bit that's left is just slapping F1 engines together, and after 2013, won;t have any customers left in F1 (unless they can come up with a complete new engine/drivetrain/Kers in a hurry).
the Cosworth of old that did the road car stuff is now MPT.
Can't see where the future of Cosworth is now, Prodrive will just want the name, (and maybe a little bit of the defence development stuff), but you can be sure Dave Richards will not want to pay much for it, and if they do buy it, most will be let go fast.
the Cosworth of old that did the road car stuff is now MPT.
Can't see where the future of Cosworth is now, Prodrive will just want the name, (and maybe a little bit of the defence development stuff), but you can be sure Dave Richards will not want to pay much for it, and if they do buy it, most will be let go fast.
Scuffers said:
way I see it, Cosworth bit that's left is just slapping F1 engines together, and after 2013, won;t have any customers left in F1 (unless they can come up with a complete new engine/drivetrain/Kers in a hurry).
the Cosworth of old that did the road car stuff is now MPT.
Can't see where the future of Cosworth is now, Prodrive will just want the name, (and maybe a little bit of the defence development stuff), but you can be sure Dave Richards will not want to pay much for it, and if they do buy it, most will be let go fast.
www.cosworth.com Found in some surprising places the Cosworth of old that did the road car stuff is now MPT.
Can't see where the future of Cosworth is now, Prodrive will just want the name, (and maybe a little bit of the defence development stuff), but you can be sure Dave Richards will not want to pay much for it, and if they do buy it, most will be let go fast.
Surely the future of Cosworth is question of defence/aerospace vs automotive if the business is to sold as one unit and not split.
The automotive stuff F1 excluded is surely only electronics, modified Duratec engines and improved circa 2004 - 2008 Subaru/Mitsubishi/Nissan/Toyota engine parts developed for previous motorsport programmes. All good stuff but hardly good for long term viability.
The defence and aerospace stuff seems from what little is publicised to be much more cutting edge, as question does this now form the bulk of Cosworth revenue?
Personally I expect the company to split in two with the defence/aerospace side going to an existing partner, supplier or customer and the automotive side ending up being sold for relatively little to the likes of Prodrive, Ricardo etc.. more for branding/marketing then a desire to build the company.
The automotive stuff F1 excluded is surely only electronics, modified Duratec engines and improved circa 2004 - 2008 Subaru/Mitsubishi/Nissan/Toyota engine parts developed for previous motorsport programmes. All good stuff but hardly good for long term viability.
The defence and aerospace stuff seems from what little is publicised to be much more cutting edge, as question does this now form the bulk of Cosworth revenue?
Personally I expect the company to split in two with the defence/aerospace side going to an existing partner, supplier or customer and the automotive side ending up being sold for relatively little to the likes of Prodrive, Ricardo etc.. more for branding/marketing then a desire to build the company.
Scuffers said:
way I see it, Cosworth bit that's left is just slapping F1 engines together, and after 2013, won;t have any customers left in F1 (unless they can come up with a complete new engine/drivetrain/Kers in a hurry).
the Cosworth of old that did the road car stuff is now MPT.
Can't see where the future of Cosworth is now, Prodrive will just want the name, (and maybe a little bit of the defence development stuff), but you can be sure Dave Richards will not want to pay much for it, and if they do buy it, most will be let go fast.
recently done the aston 1-77 engine the Cosworth of old that did the road car stuff is now MPT.
Can't see where the future of Cosworth is now, Prodrive will just want the name, (and maybe a little bit of the defence development stuff), but you can be sure Dave Richards will not want to pay much for it, and if they do buy it, most will be let go fast.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-12...
and does Lotus' race engines for GT
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motorsport/coswo...
as well as F1
and Jag's CX-75 engine too
http://www.auto-types.com/autonews/jaguar-forced-t...
and the defence stuff too
http://www.cosworth.com/defence/
Subaru CS400
http://www.cosworth.com/automotive/special-perform...
so there's life in the old dog yet....
Scuffers said:
way I see it, Cosworth bit that's left is just slapping F1 engines together, and after 2013, won;t have any customers left in F1 (unless they can come up with a complete new engine/drivetrain/Kers in a hurry).
the Cosworth of old that did the road car stuff is now MPT.
Can't see where the future of Cosworth is now, Prodrive will just want the name, (and maybe a little bit of the defence development stuff), but you can be sure Dave Richards will not want to pay much for it, and if they do buy it, most will be let go fast.
Don't wish to be rude but Cosworth don't just slap engines together, Cosworth is very big in high end electronics in many areas.the Cosworth of old that did the road car stuff is now MPT.
Can't see where the future of Cosworth is now, Prodrive will just want the name, (and maybe a little bit of the defence development stuff), but you can be sure Dave Richards will not want to pay much for it, and if they do buy it, most will be let go fast.
They have been based just outside of Cambridge for years and this is the brains hub of the company. From what I have heard they are doing well and are staying put.
Scuffers said:
way I see it, Cosworth bit that's left is just slapping F1 engines together, and after 2013, won;t have any customers left in F1 (unless they can come up with a complete new engine/drivetrain/Kers in a hurry).
the Cosworth of old that did the road car stuff is now MPT.
Can't see where the future of Cosworth is now, Prodrive will just want the name, (and maybe a little bit of the defence development stuff), but you can be sure Dave Richards will not want to pay much for it, and if they do buy it, most will be let go fast.
Unless they find a buyer, whatever iteration of Cosworth that is left building F1 engines will be finished. They say they can build a new engine in time but they have been getting rid of engine builders and have been a shadow of their former self for many years. They have bills they can't pay, engines they can't finish, and I can only hope they find a buyer soon. the Cosworth of old that did the road car stuff is now MPT.
Can't see where the future of Cosworth is now, Prodrive will just want the name, (and maybe a little bit of the defence development stuff), but you can be sure Dave Richards will not want to pay much for it, and if they do buy it, most will be let go fast.
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