RE: Driven: new Range Rover
Discussion
camel_landy said:
weez123 said:
chiefski26 said:
Looks impressive on paper will be good to see in flesh once released.
Sure these are already out? Seen one in Redditch a few weeks back.M
I drove the last of the outgoing RRs the other day, the westminster version and it was lush. I am sure the new one will be excellent as well. I do find the whole computer screen rather than dials quite weird though..
I replaced a Cayenne with a RRS and have not looked back - I also use it off road regularly and it is just awesome in the mud, those off road programmes actually work!
I replaced a Cayenne with a RRS and have not looked back - I also use it off road regularly and it is just awesome in the mud, those off road programmes actually work!
supercampeao said:
I drove the last of the outgoing RRs the other day, the westminster version and it was lush. I am sure the new one will be excellent as well. I do find the whole computer screen rather than dials quite weird though..
I replaced a Cayenne with a RRS and have not looked back - I also use it off road regularly and it is just awesome in the mud, those off road programmes actually work!
Genuine question; is the last L322 RR as nimble as the RRS in your opinion? Theoretically it ought to be, weight being the key issue, but earlier variants weren't and had a similarly stodgy, top-heavy feel to the old P38 IMHO.I replaced a Cayenne with a RRS and have not looked back - I also use it off road regularly and it is just awesome in the mud, those off road programmes actually work!
As for the LR 'Terrain Response', all I can say is that it got me through the snows of 2010 on minimum tread, boggo road tyres, without a hitch.
Digga said:
supercampeao said:
I drove the last of the outgoing RRs the other day, the westminster version and it was lush. I am sure the new one will be excellent as well. I do find the whole computer screen rather than dials quite weird though..
I replaced a Cayenne with a RRS and have not looked back - I also use it off road regularly and it is just awesome in the mud, those off road programmes actually work!
Genuine question; is the last L322 RR as nimble as the RRS in your opinion? Theoretically it ought to be, weight being the key issue, but earlier variants weren't and had a similarly stodgy, top-heavy feel to the old P38 IMHO.I replaced a Cayenne with a RRS and have not looked back - I also use it off road regularly and it is just awesome in the mud, those off road programmes actually work!
As for the LR 'Terrain Response', all I can say is that it got me through the snows of 2010 on minimum tread, boggo road tyres, without a hitch.
In the 2010 snows my Cayenne managed to get into a slide on a modest slope on ice, slid into a kerb which hit the useless 20 inch allow with equally useless low profile road tyres and broke the suspension - 3k of damage later it was back on the road. Mind you, just as well i hit the kerb because it stopped me ploughing into a neighbour's house!!!
Digga said:
supercampeao said:
I drove the last of the outgoing RRs the other day, the westminster version and it was lush. I am sure the new one will be excellent as well. I do find the whole computer screen rather than dials quite weird though..
I replaced a Cayenne with a RRS and have not looked back - I also use it off road regularly and it is just awesome in the mud, those off road programmes actually work!
Genuine question; is the last L322 RR as nimble as the RRS in your opinion? Theoretically it ought to be, weight being the key issue, but earlier variants weren't and had a similarly stodgy, top-heavy feel to the old P38 IMHO.I replaced a Cayenne with a RRS and have not looked back - I also use it off road regularly and it is just awesome in the mud, those off road programmes actually work!
As for the LR 'Terrain Response', all I can say is that it got me through the snows of 2010 on minimum tread, boggo road tyres, without a hitch.
Although weight is a factor, the RRS is on a completely different chassis and the suspension is tuned differently. That said, I wouldn't be put off by the L322 RR, you can still 'chuck' them around but you just need to adjust your driving style accordingly.
M
Have just bought a new Freelander2 Si4 S (new petrol engine)for my business in Poland, The dealer in Krakow has a new RR Autobiography in the showroom with all the bells and whistles. Seats are absolutely amazing in a soft deep plum leather and matching carpets look great. I didn't drive it but spent a long time looking around, only real impression is that it feels MASSIVE when you are standing near it and quite a climb for my 5'4" Polish colleague to get into the drivers seat. certainly wouldn't part with £100k for an SUV but i know some people do (are you reading this brother-in-law !!!)
DonkeyApple said:
True and it is a very important part along with the simple fact that many feel bigger must be better. But, the point I am trying to make is that for at least 30 years the RR has held the top slot as the luxury SUV. But when Bentley roll out theirs and if Aston do their Lagonda thing then instantly over night RR gets knocked off their perch and they will never be able to get back. This will clearly have an impact on sales but the debate is how much. Certainly the Russians and Arabs in London will drop them for personal use but probably retain them for staff. How long before that trickles down the pecking order of real rich to the want to be seen to be rich?
The thing is that Land Rover have 60 years of making vehicles with impeccable off-road manners, and that is still the point of departure for the chassis - make it work on a ploughed field first, and only then make it handle on the road. Neither Bentley or Aston would do that, preferring to badge engineer something else - the Bentley would be a Cayenne with more cow and a W12, and the Lagonda would be about as much of a proper A-M product as the Cygnet, probably sharing underpinnings with a Ssangyong or something similarly distasteful. The resultant vehicles would be nowhere near the value proposition of a Range Rover.
davepoth said:
The thing is that Land Rover have 60 years of making vehicles with impeccable off-road manners, and that is still the point of departure for the chassis - make it work on a ploughed field first, and only then make it handle on the road.
Neither Bentley or Aston would do that, preferring to badge engineer something else - the Bentley would be a Cayenne with more cow and a W12, and the Lagonda would be about as much of a proper A-M product as the Cygnet, probably sharing underpinnings with a Ssangyong or something similarly distasteful. The resultant vehicles would be nowhere near the value proposition of a Range Rover.
Absolutely spot on. Neither Bentley or Aston would do that, preferring to badge engineer something else - the Bentley would be a Cayenne with more cow and a W12, and the Lagonda would be about as much of a proper A-M product as the Cygnet, probably sharing underpinnings with a Ssangyong or something similarly distasteful. The resultant vehicles would be nowhere near the value proposition of a Range Rover.
However. Picture two Chinese business men stepping out of 1 Hyde Park. One into a £200k Bentley SUV and the other into a £100k RR. Who is the bigger man, the more powerful, the more successful?
Exactly. Drill down to the fine details of the customers for the absolute premium brands and you will find that for many 'key' overseas buyers it is not about offroad ability. Then look at how many of the people further down the fiscal ladder act in emulating the purchases of these people and all of a sudden you can see the risk posed by these new cars.
For example, RR have been bought for years by various MIddle Eastern royal families. Many of them educated in England and wanting to emulate aspects of English land owning culture. And as a result, their people have seen such products as badges and gauges of success.
Russians will emulate people like Abramovich and Arabs will emulate their royal families. If key people start to buy the Bentley SUV then it will have a trickle down effect.
The fact is that RR has never been challenged at the top end and there is a challenge coming. The day the new Bentley thing launches various cities around the world will start filling up with them and the new owners won't all be new to SUVs but moving upwards from what was previously the most luxurious brand.
DonkeyApple said:
Russians will emulate people like Abramovich...
Russians, in Moscow at least, are very bling.You might look - in you own opinion, and very possibly that of observers - very cool and understated by driving a Defender in London, but in Moscow, you;d be ridiculed for being a 'farmer'. In a country where just an hour or so out of the city, cars are comparatively rare and most of the ones on the roads are total sheds at that, ostentation is all.
Digga said:
DonkeyApple said:
Russians will emulate people like Abramovich...
Russians, in Moscow at least, are very bling.You might look - in you own opinion, and very possibly that of observers - very cool and understated by driving a Defender in London, but in Moscow, you;d be ridiculed for being a 'farmer'. In a country where just an hour or so out of the city, cars are comparatively rare and most of the ones on the roads are total sheds at that, ostentation is all.
Even in the UK we can't deny that images of Charlie driving round in a Range Rover did wonders for the image, compounding an already existing view that RR's were for people who owned land and probably titles.
So, just in these BRIC countries, once the 'top of the tree' figures start tooling around in a particular car then those on their way up behind them or wanting to look like them will gravitate towards the same product.
Range Rovers will still be Range Rovers and still the most awesome bit of kit that blends total luxury with total capability but we'd be fools to ignore the significance of 'Buyers by price list'.
A very good example is wine lists in restaraunts. This is an area where most people shop by price tag but also have heard of the most expensive such as Petrus, Margeaux, Lafitte etc
Afterall, why is P Diddy's carbonated, Ace of Spades, piss water several times the price of Crystal? Why is Crystal in the first instance more expensive than the comparable vintage Dom Perignon, would it have become so if a few key successful businessness men in the music industry hadn't attached themselves to that brand and everyone else followed. What is wrong with Krug that it is priced so significantly cheaper? Has AofS taken sales from Asti Spumanti or Crystal customers?
DonkeyApple said:
Yup. And the suddenly wealthy of all of these BRIC economies think the same. Fearful of what looks old as it reminds them of their past and in need of whatever displays their recent success the best.
Yes, if we see a Defender here it can make us think "landed gentry", or perhaps fond memories of safari holidays, but for those who see peasant subsistance and hardship in the fields, these ideals are far, far away.LR has to shift it's vehicles up the price tree to survive. (For me, that may actually, ultimately mean that (unless I want silly finance) I will buy DC100's instead of Discoverys in future.)
I'm no RR fan and have never had any urge to own one but I am surprised at the low score on the door. the fact is that the RR has maintained its position as the best off-road luxury car from its launch in the 70s and has successfully reinvented itself along the way.
No manufacturer can stop footballers inflicting their dire taste on their product but you can't deny it remains the best-looking car of its ilk.
The Cayenne would kill to look like this, the Audi Q cars all look like fat couch potatoes covered in fairy lights and BMW have faded as the RR has grown.
So props to RR for maintaining their kingpin status and keeping all the rest as the sad wannabes desperately trying to emulate its success.
No manufacturer can stop footballers inflicting their dire taste on their product but you can't deny it remains the best-looking car of its ilk.
The Cayenne would kill to look like this, the Audi Q cars all look like fat couch potatoes covered in fairy lights and BMW have faded as the RR has grown.
So props to RR for maintaining their kingpin status and keeping all the rest as the sad wannabes desperately trying to emulate its success.
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