RE: Chris Harris video: Deltawing drive

[bsdnazz]

Max_Torque said:

it broadly "works" because it occupys a niche into which "normal" cars cannot move due to the regulations.

To my mind this is one of the key issues that the DeltaWing brings up. The DeltaWing shows a different way forward that is currently barred to most car because of the regulations. There are areas of physics/car design that are off limits to designers not because they're dead ends but because the regulations don't allow them.

The DeltaWing shows that designers should be allowed to explore the physics and not be restricted by bureaucracy!

[bsdnazz]

Max_Torque said:

A conventionally "tracked" car, of the same mass and drag (which is possible given the same freedom of regulations that the deltawing has (because drag is fundamentally a function of frontal area, not planiform section)), would be faster than the deltawing under all circumstances.

Why? Assuming the only difference is the front track (ie same mass, drag, power) why would a conventionally tracked car be faster?

[bsdnazz]

Can you tell I'm a 100% DeltaWing fan?

Things to know:

• Ben and I are first cousins - so there's family bias
• When Ben built his two home-built race cars I was his grease monkey. I've seen first hand just how good he is
• I've been following the DeltaWing for a long time.

[russy01]

Well I understand just how the rear suspension works - NOT! Might have to listen to that bit again!

[vincegail]

GhepardoGTS said:

So will the Reliant Robin work with a midengine, super low center of gravity construction? Time to put the Top Gear trio to work.

They did their own version of the DeltaWing, to be shown in the next serie.
Actually, they had someone else to build it, of course:
http://www.andysaunderskustoms.co.uk/details/tv/94...

[PiB]

bsdnazz said:

mikeg15 said:

The design is totally logical, so it makes me wonder whether it really needs two front wheels ? Was this a sop to the car set, could it not work just as well ( or better ) with a single front wheel ?

You need 4 wheels to qualify it as a car otherwise it's a motorbike/side car combination.

Totally out on a limb here but I think with two wheels it will have better contact with the road (suspension compliance and grip) and lower center of gravity.

As the well spoken previous poster said - it would be GREAT to see the Deltawing in hill climbs and other solo events or a one make series would be exciting. When's the next race this machine is going to be in? I fear there will be more "nerfing" due to visibility issues - there I said it.

[graeme4130]

That's one a CH's best videos and I could watch hours of the engineering side. Great work

I can't help but wonder though - how would its lap time compare to a normal configurations race car of the same weight and power ?

[bsdnazz]

PiB said:

I fear there will be more "nerfing" due to visibility issues - there I said it.

Anthony Davidson might have a different view on this!

[vincegail]

vincegail said:

GhepardoGTS said:

So will the Reliant Robin work with a midengine, super low center of gravity construction? Time to put the Top Gear trio to work.

They did their own version of the DeltaWing, to be shown in the next serie.
Actually, they had someone else to build it, of course:
http://www.andysaunderskustoms.co.uk/details/tv/94...

And here it is on Camping Houx a few hours after this year's 24 hours of Le Mans:

[mistergee]

Great vid, definately no need to cut short interviews that start to get all tech. I have been an engineer for 20 years and could listen to that guy talk all day long - so long as went a bit slower for me. Although any mention of monkey moments...i get that! You can just tell he could amp up any tech conversation to a new level and leave you mumbling about the something inane like the orange wing mirrors!

[PiB]

bsdnazz said:

PiB said:

I fear there will be more "nerfing" due to visibility issues - there I said it.

Anthony Davidson might have a different view on this!

I like Anthony Davidson! I like his co-host on Sky F1 coverage too but for entirely different reasons. Okay, further "nerfing" due to lousy driving by others, poor visibility and stability.

[Gadgeroonie]

could this be a road car / track day toy ?

if this car can not be raced then I am sure there may be a market for it as a track toy

[Kawasicki]

I'm not convinced.

The example of the Deltawing being stable under braking because the rear wheels do more work is a case in point. The harder you brake the less vertical load there is on the rear tyres. So it might be stable, but you will not be stopping as quickly as a vehicle with conventional front to rear brake balance. The parachute analogy makes no sense, it's a different mechanism.

Also, having the rear axle do all the roll control, means unbalanced vertical loads on the rear tyres in cornering. Unbalanced tyre contact patch pressures on an axle reduce the peak cornering force.

So, although I'm impressed that someone tried something different, I'd also like to see a race between the Deltawing and a conventional race car with the same design freedom.

Saying that, I still like to see it driving around because I like to see new concepts being tried.

[AER]

Kawasicki said:

.
Also, having the rear axle do all the roll control, means unbalanced vertical loads on the rear tyres in cornering. Unbalanced tyre contact patch pressures on an axle reduce the peak cornering force.

Any car will have unbalanced vertical loads on the tyres under cornering. Whether its split across two tyres or four is pretty irrelevant. One side is working harder than the other.

[Stingercut]

Kawasicki said:

I'm not convinced.

The example of the Deltawing being stable under braking because the rear wheels do more work is a case in point. The harder you brake the less vertical load there is on the rear tyres. So it might be stable, but you will not be stopping as quickly as a vehicle with conventional front to rear brake balance. The parachute analogy makes no sense, it's a different mechanism.

Also, having the rear axle do all the roll control, means unbalanced vertical loads on the rear tyres in cornering. Unbalanced tyre contact patch pressures on an axle reduce the peak cornering force.

So, although I'm impressed that someone tried something different, I'd also like to see a race between the Deltawing and a conventional race car with the same design freedom.

Saying that, I still like to see it driving around because I like to see new concepts being tried.

+1. Aesthetically it does nothing for me either. After 500Million years of roughly higher life form Evolution, why are there no fast moving land predators or fleeing prey animals with a similar weight distribution / configuration, if it confers so many advantages ?

I appreciate the Delta Wing's top speed is 3X a Cheetahs but even so.

Just a thought.

[Cyrus1971]

A fine fine thing.

[DonkeyApple]

Stingercut said:

+1. Aesthetically it does nothing for me either. After 500Million years of roughly higher life form Evolution, why are there no fast moving land predators or fleeing prey animals with a similar weight distribution / configuration, if it confers so many advantages ?

Barry Manilow?

[Dave Hedgehog]

DonkeyApple said:

Stingercut said:

+1. Aesthetically it does nothing for me either. After 500Million years of roughly higher life form Evolution, why are there no fast moving land predators or fleeing prey animals with a similar weight distribution / configuration, if it confers so many advantages ?

Barry Manilow?

Kangaroo ?

[DonkeyApple]

Dave Hedgehog said:

Kangaroo ?

Would be strange to think that the evolutionary peak were in Australia.

[bsdnazz]

Stingercut said:

After 500Million years of roughly higher life form Evolution, why are there no fast moving land predators or fleeing prey animals with a similar weight distribution / configuration, if it confers so many advantages ?

I appreciate the Delta Wing's top speed is 3X a Cheetahs but even so.

Just a thought.

Evolution of life has not managed to invent the wheel so is not necessarily all that useful as a comparison!

( bacterial flagellum aside)