Discussion
mrmr96][Devils Advocate said:
Surely it's a misconception that "cheap tyres are dangerous"?
Lets assume we're not talking about the chance they'll explode, and rather just focus on their lower grip vs. premium tyres.
Well surely the answer if you're running on budgets is to slow down, and leave bigger gaps? EVERYONE has less grip when it rains, and we all manage. EVERYONE has less grip when it's icy, and again, most of us manager. So a budget tyre in the dry may be similar to a premium in a wet, and a budget tyre in the wet like a premium one on ice. A budget one on ice will be similar to a premium one on slightly more ice
Of course there's an advantage to having more grip, but I don't think it's necessarily as bad as some on this thread would make out.
[/Devils Advocate]
I'd wager those who are just interested in shoeing their car in the cheapest rubber aren't likely to modearate their driving accordingly.Lets assume we're not talking about the chance they'll explode, and rather just focus on their lower grip vs. premium tyres.
Well surely the answer if you're running on budgets is to slow down, and leave bigger gaps? EVERYONE has less grip when it rains, and we all manage. EVERYONE has less grip when it's icy, and again, most of us manager. So a budget tyre in the dry may be similar to a premium in a wet, and a budget tyre in the wet like a premium one on ice. A budget one on ice will be similar to a premium one on slightly more ice
Of course there's an advantage to having more grip, but I don't think it's necessarily as bad as some on this thread would make out.
[/Devils Advocate]
I've fitted a very different tyre to my car than it was previously running, and I know my grips levels in various conditions will have changed accordingly, so I can allow for this in my driving style.
(Driving to conditions, etc.)
I wonder how many people would choose a tyre with A for economy even if it had a horrendous stopping distance? I guess that's why they don't put wear rate on there- people would go for the longest lasting regardless of how it performed. People are tight. Never underestimate the sacrifices people will make to save money!
markda said:
The world continues to go mad! I'm unsure how much truth is in this rumour, but I was recently told by a tyre fitter I use that the Toyo 888's I have been using on the Caterham may not be legal on UK roads for much longer due to these noise constraints.
Wasn't that the reason the Falken 452s are mo longer manufactured?markda said:
Quite possibly... 888's are only rumoured to be next, under any other circumstances I wouldn't pay too much attention but this particular individual is authorised MOT tester - which means there could be some substance behind this! I'll worry about it next year
That's ridiculous. How many cars are actually on 888's and being driven day to day in areas where tyre noise is an issue? There must be exceptions for 'specialist' tyres. They had better not ban mud terrains!My recent fitted on my 4x4 Mazda Bongo ..Sunitrac 9000 tyres... yes I did declare in one of the my tyres are better than yours thread lol .... are the same EU tyre rating as many of the "premium" brands for the same 225/55/17 101 W XL size.
I got these tyres from e-tyres.
For the naysayers these tyres are a Chinese brand which were tested in Australia...and the oz guys on their forums think they are okay
So far... these new tyres are better than the Pirelli's they replaced...in all conditions and very quiet too. Being 4wd and heavy as well as not driving the Bongo like my arse is on fire I have had no issues in the wet at all and the huge amounts of spray they spew out suggests they are clearing the water effectively. My fuel consumption has improved by around 2 mpg too,I always keep a check anyway. I guess that's because the tyrewear value is now 400 when the Pirelli were 360
For me load rating for the van is paramount and minimum rating is 96 so "normal" car tyres at 97 are on the limit so I go for extra loads, which can restrict the tyre brands from the better Budgets to high priced premiums with nowt much in mid range....
Yer pays yer money and all that.... some tyre suit some vehicle some tyres don't
If only people paid more attention to the rubber bands they ride on... tyre pressure checks would be a good start....
I got these tyres from e-tyres.
For the naysayers these tyres are a Chinese brand which were tested in Australia...and the oz guys on their forums think they are okay
So far... these new tyres are better than the Pirelli's they replaced...in all conditions and very quiet too. Being 4wd and heavy as well as not driving the Bongo like my arse is on fire I have had no issues in the wet at all and the huge amounts of spray they spew out suggests they are clearing the water effectively. My fuel consumption has improved by around 2 mpg too,I always keep a check anyway. I guess that's because the tyrewear value is now 400 when the Pirelli were 360
For me load rating for the van is paramount and minimum rating is 96 so "normal" car tyres at 97 are on the limit so I go for extra loads, which can restrict the tyre brands from the better Budgets to high priced premiums with nowt much in mid range....
Yer pays yer money and all that.... some tyre suit some vehicle some tyres don't
If only people paid more attention to the rubber bands they ride on... tyre pressure checks would be a good start....
Pints said:
mrmr96][Devils Advocate said:
Surely it's a misconception that "cheap tyres are dangerous"?
Lets assume we're not talking about the chance they'll explode, and rather just focus on their lower grip vs. premium tyres.
Well surely the answer if you're running on budgets is to slow down, and leave bigger gaps? EVERYONE has less grip when it rains, and we all manage. EVERYONE has less grip when it's icy, and again, most of us manager. So a budget tyre in the dry may be similar to a premium in a wet, and a budget tyre in the wet like a premium one on ice. A budget one on ice will be similar to a premium one on slightly more ice
Of course there's an advantage to having more grip, but I don't think it's necessarily as bad as some on this thread would make out.
[/Devils Advocate]
I'd wager those who are just interested in shoeing their car in the cheapest rubber aren't likely to modearate their driving accordingly.Lets assume we're not talking about the chance they'll explode, and rather just focus on their lower grip vs. premium tyres.
Well surely the answer if you're running on budgets is to slow down, and leave bigger gaps? EVERYONE has less grip when it rains, and we all manage. EVERYONE has less grip when it's icy, and again, most of us manager. So a budget tyre in the dry may be similar to a premium in a wet, and a budget tyre in the wet like a premium one on ice. A budget one on ice will be similar to a premium one on slightly more ice
Of course there's an advantage to having more grip, but I don't think it's necessarily as bad as some on this thread would make out.
[/Devils Advocate]
I've fitted a very different tyre to my car than it was previously running, and I know my grips levels in various conditions will have changed accordingly, so I can allow for this in my driving style.
(Driving to conditions, etc.)
If this initiative helps safety on one hand it'll probably be offset by appropriate people thinking "I bought fancy tyre X, time to drive like a tit in the wet!"
So those that might benefit from it will then offset it by driving like a plonker!?
Hmmm
Dave
mrmr96][Devils Advocate said:
Surely it's a misconception that "cheap tyres are dangerous"?
Lets assume we're not talking about the chance they'll explode, and rather just focus on their lower grip vs. premium tyres.
Well surely the answer if you're running on budgets is to slow down, and leave bigger gaps? EVERYONE has less grip when it rains, and we all manage. EVERYONE has less grip when it's icy, and again, most of us manager. So a budget tyre in the dry may be similar to a premium in a wet, and a budget tyre in the wet like a premium one on ice. A budget one on ice will be similar to a premium one on slightly more ice
Of course there's an advantage to having more grip, but I don't think it's necessarily as bad as some on this thread would make out.
[/Devils Advocate]
[further satanic advocacy]Lets assume we're not talking about the chance they'll explode, and rather just focus on their lower grip vs. premium tyres.
Well surely the answer if you're running on budgets is to slow down, and leave bigger gaps? EVERYONE has less grip when it rains, and we all manage. EVERYONE has less grip when it's icy, and again, most of us manager. So a budget tyre in the dry may be similar to a premium in a wet, and a budget tyre in the wet like a premium one on ice. A budget one on ice will be similar to a premium one on slightly more ice
Of course there's an advantage to having more grip, but I don't think it's necessarily as bad as some on this thread would make out.
[/Devils Advocate]
Which is why it should be perfectly legal to drive on bald tyres, you just have drive to the conditions. Also, the brake efficiency test in the MOT should be scrapped. And do I really need properly functioning dampers? I could just slow down...
[/further satanic advocacy]
underphil said:
If you've got good tyres on your car and have (for whatever reason) had to emergency brake and have stopped about 1m from the car ahead - you definitely won't start buying cheapos that would have taken another 5m to stop!
By that logic we should swap to R888's in summer, and then to pure winters when it snows, and whatever else, just to be sure.There is always a compromise and you could argue that these 'eco' tyres that give more mileage, an A rating, would see you having a rear-end smash over having something with a lower eco rating but more grip!
Dave
Just seen this thread. I'm doing some work with a German company involved in this.
The key here is that the labels are making manufacturers deliver better tyres to the market. It will be a matter of months before A A grade tyres come to the fore which combine both. Great fuel economy, massively improved stopping distances (up to 20m). These so called 'Green Tyres' aren't far off. I've seen many myself.
For anyone seeking info on the economic impact of premium versus budget tyres try this - app.green-tyres.org.uk. It's a free web and phone app that tells you exactly how much money ecah tyre category (A-F) on the label can save you. Should answer a lot of questions.
The key here is that the labels are making manufacturers deliver better tyres to the market. It will be a matter of months before A A grade tyres come to the fore which combine both. Great fuel economy, massively improved stopping distances (up to 20m). These so called 'Green Tyres' aren't far off. I've seen many myself.
For anyone seeking info on the economic impact of premium versus budget tyres try this - app.green-tyres.org.uk. It's a free web and phone app that tells you exactly how much money ecah tyre category (A-F) on the label can save you. Should answer a lot of questions.
Just seen this thread. I'm doing some work with a German company involved in this.
The key here is that the labels are making manufacturers deliver better tyres to the market. It will be a matter of months before A A grade tyres come to the fore which combine both. Great fuel economy, massively improved stopping distances (up to 20m). These so called 'Green Tyres' aren't far off. I've seen many myself.
For anyone seeking info on the economic impact of premium versus budget tyres try this - app.green-tyres.org.uk. It's a free web and phone app that tells you exactly how much money ecah tyre category (A-F) on the label can save you. Should answer a lot of questions.
The key here is that the labels are making manufacturers deliver better tyres to the market. It will be a matter of months before A A grade tyres come to the fore which combine both. Great fuel economy, massively improved stopping distances (up to 20m). These so called 'Green Tyres' aren't far off. I've seen many myself.
For anyone seeking info on the economic impact of premium versus budget tyres try this - app.green-tyres.org.uk. It's a free web and phone app that tells you exactly how much money ecah tyre category (A-F) on the label can save you. Should answer a lot of questions.
Anything that helps people make an informed choice should be a good thing. Especially on something safety-critical like tyres. But you always have to worry about how valid the results are when dealing with standardised tests. Is tyre #1 with a C rating for economy always going to perform better than tyre #2 with an E rating for economy on every car to which it can be fitted?
Also, are people going to just choose on price and economy factors and ignore wet braking ("because I don't drive that fast", "I don't tailgate", "I never go over 40mph")? And, as has been covered, to most people a tyre is just a black rubber circle full of air that they have to replace every second or third MoT because they're told to.
Will tyre companies learn how to game the system? Probably, especially if it helps them sell tyres.
I wonder if a tyre that offers good wet braking will offer generally good grip in the wet? Not because I want to take risks in the rain but because I prefer to know that I've made the most sensible choice.
For me, it is nice to see the noise rating, I'd like to make sure my Jaguar has some nice, quiet-riding tyres. My order of priority, however, is wet braking, noise, economy then price but I don't expect everyone to have the same priorities. I also know that there is a world of factors that fall outside the scope of these tests. But at least it is a start.
Also, are people going to just choose on price and economy factors and ignore wet braking ("because I don't drive that fast", "I don't tailgate", "I never go over 40mph")? And, as has been covered, to most people a tyre is just a black rubber circle full of air that they have to replace every second or third MoT because they're told to.
Will tyre companies learn how to game the system? Probably, especially if it helps them sell tyres.
I wonder if a tyre that offers good wet braking will offer generally good grip in the wet? Not because I want to take risks in the rain but because I prefer to know that I've made the most sensible choice.
For me, it is nice to see the noise rating, I'd like to make sure my Jaguar has some nice, quiet-riding tyres. My order of priority, however, is wet braking, noise, economy then price but I don't expect everyone to have the same priorities. I also know that there is a world of factors that fall outside the scope of these tests. But at least it is a start.
[quote=fourwheelsteer]
Will tyre companies learn how to game the system? Probably, especially if it helps them sell tyres.
I wonder if a tyre that offers good wet braking will offer generally good grip in the wet? Not because I want to take risks in the rain but because I prefer to know that I've made the most sensible choice.
quote]
These are both extremely important points I think. Regarding the first one - probably, until an enforcement body is put in place by the Department for Transport to enforce labelling properly. Until that time there is a certain amount of reliance on market self-regulation. Though you have to ask the question is it worth any manufacturer getting caught playing the system and some poor motorist dealing with the conseqences? Would their corporate reputation ever recover (also known as the Ratners experience).
The second one is interesting - the labelling is currently showing up that existing premium tyres are far from premium (some not even achieving a B grade in any category) so a raft of new tyres known as 'green tyres' are about to appear on the market in early 2013 that cover BOTH strong wet grip and solid fuel economy. They represent the holy grail for tyre makers - how to have your cake and eat it. Will be about an extra £20 per conrner but will be worth it for the long term fuel gains.
Will tyre companies learn how to game the system? Probably, especially if it helps them sell tyres.
I wonder if a tyre that offers good wet braking will offer generally good grip in the wet? Not because I want to take risks in the rain but because I prefer to know that I've made the most sensible choice.
quote]
These are both extremely important points I think. Regarding the first one - probably, until an enforcement body is put in place by the Department for Transport to enforce labelling properly. Until that time there is a certain amount of reliance on market self-regulation. Though you have to ask the question is it worth any manufacturer getting caught playing the system and some poor motorist dealing with the conseqences? Would their corporate reputation ever recover (also known as the Ratners experience).
The second one is interesting - the labelling is currently showing up that existing premium tyres are far from premium (some not even achieving a B grade in any category) so a raft of new tyres known as 'green tyres' are about to appear on the market in early 2013 that cover BOTH strong wet grip and solid fuel economy. They represent the holy grail for tyre makers - how to have your cake and eat it. Will be about an extra £20 per conrner but will be worth it for the long term fuel gains.
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