RE: 2013 Nissan GT-R: now even more so
Discussion
swerni said:
StottyZr said:
swerni said:
If I want a car that drives itself, I'll get a driver.
Didn't expect a silly comment like that from a mod.1, it's a car packed with driver aids that would flatter anybody.
2. I'm not a mod, so I can be as silly as I like
Well, I feel quite silly now.
Fire99 said:
Perhaps more than a little over statement but it seems like a revised GT-R appears every other week. Ordering spare parts for a revision 1,2,3.....8,9,10 will be interesting. 
How many Porsche 911 variants are there again?There's only one GTR which gets revised/tweaked pretty much on an annual basis.
Rumour has it the 2014 model GT-R will be the prototype for the first manned Mission to Mars !...I kid you not....the idea is to launch control the GT-R at the Kennedy Space Centre in the opposite direction of the Earth's rotation....this opposing force of the Nissans four tyres on the tarmac will stop the Earths rotation and fling the GT-R and occupant out into space towards the planet Mars.
Guvernator said:
Care to clarify what he is saying then because from what I understood, he is saying the following. The GTR was built to a target weight of 1700kgs, we could have made it lighter but we didn't because we wanted to make the car heavy\that exact weight as this helps to push the car into the road to increase grip which makes it faster ergo weight=faster.
I am not an engineer but I am aware of the basic laws of physics, yes you will gain some benefit by pushing the car down into the road (this is why racing cars use downforce) but if you do this buy adding weight, what you gain in one area you loose in many others like braking, weight transfer etc. It's like he is cherry picking the benefits of added weight and using this to justify why the GTR is so heavy without mentioning any of the drawbacks. Again I love the GTR but if he couldn't be honest enough to give a full\complete answer to the question of weight, he shouldn't have bothered coming up with a half-arsed one, a simple it's heavy but we've made the best of it would have been infinitely preferable.
You keep mentioning how you think he cheated by not mentioning downsides, but have you considered, this is a road car.I am not an engineer but I am aware of the basic laws of physics, yes you will gain some benefit by pushing the car down into the road (this is why racing cars use downforce) but if you do this buy adding weight, what you gain in one area you loose in many others like braking, weight transfer etc. It's like he is cherry picking the benefits of added weight and using this to justify why the GTR is so heavy without mentioning any of the drawbacks. Again I love the GTR but if he couldn't be honest enough to give a full\complete answer to the question of weight, he shouldn't have bothered coming up with a half-arsed one, a simple it's heavy but we've made the best of it would have been infinitely preferable.
How much down force will a 600kg car generate at 50 mph? Have you seen F1 videos where a novice driver falls off the road at slow speeds due to the total lack of down force? He has valid points, as he maintains a certain amount of weight over each corner no matter what speed you are doing. There is more merit to this than you are claiming in your posts.
Due to being a road car, what is the return on investment of trying to make the car 200kg lighter? Will it attract a new market, sell more, make it much better? No. In japan they want usable every day performance. I think the man is clever enough to know what it would be like with less weight and less seats, he built the damn car. Give him a bit more credit than your posts suggest.
Question for Pistonheads: given the history here with Nissan's GT-R lap times, questions about tyres, did they run with over-boosted engines, nobody else outside of nissan able to replicate etc.
Did you guys ask Nissan rep for proof of 'ring lap time (youtube vbox, video) ?
And if you did not, are you going to ?
peterpeter said:
on my 2nd gtr now - a 2012 model which Ive had since march (previously owned many cars mostly porsches)
Ive got free servicing for 3 years- (was thrown in on the deal - worth £600)- it only needs servicing once a year now which is much better.
they dont cost fortunes to run beyond that- after my 3 year warranty is up im getting a lichfield one for a grand a year and will start modding then
I dont believe there is any independent specialist for any marque as good as lichfield- so its another reason to look at the car
Its an awesome car- - aids can be switched off totally- and all the warranty scares from years ago have been proven wrong with nissan honouring virtually every claim I heard about on even modded cars- Its proved to be one of the most reliable robust and tunable supercars out there.
Driving it with aids off is hugely involving- and actually very scary- Race mode traction is the sensible route that just gives you a safety net, but its still very easy to generate huge angles of opposite lock with this on- All 3 R buttons on is still very involving and is what I have set most of the time.
Down sides- not a lot other than needing to get the car checked over (for free) after a track day- thats a pain.
fortunately bromley HPC are my local and they are one of the best-
its also attracts a lot of attention the vast majority good , but not always-
You get let out of junctions way way more often than in a 911- and lots more people make positive comments at the pumps.
I do also miss the manual gearbox of the gt3 but its way better than those horrible PDK things- (imo of course)
It does need some space to enjoy it.. I was in essex the other day - and not having to drive ridiculously fast, I was having a ball on wet 50 mph flowing roads...but when the traffic is awful- its also a nice place to be- interior is no bentley but it has everything and the seats are very good for long journeys..
My feeling is that while I can Ill always have one...to me it makes modern standard porsches seem dull (modern porsches- Id only have a gt / rs model) but that doesn't mean you can't look at anything else..- thats why I was in Essex, visiting Paul Stephens.
Have to say I really enjoyed reading that sensible post Ive got free servicing for 3 years- (was thrown in on the deal - worth £600)- it only needs servicing once a year now which is much better.
they dont cost fortunes to run beyond that- after my 3 year warranty is up im getting a lichfield one for a grand a year and will start modding then
I dont believe there is any independent specialist for any marque as good as lichfield- so its another reason to look at the car
Its an awesome car- - aids can be switched off totally- and all the warranty scares from years ago have been proven wrong with nissan honouring virtually every claim I heard about on even modded cars- Its proved to be one of the most reliable robust and tunable supercars out there.
Driving it with aids off is hugely involving- and actually very scary- Race mode traction is the sensible route that just gives you a safety net, but its still very easy to generate huge angles of opposite lock with this on- All 3 R buttons on is still very involving and is what I have set most of the time.
Down sides- not a lot other than needing to get the car checked over (for free) after a track day- thats a pain.
fortunately bromley HPC are my local and they are one of the best-
its also attracts a lot of attention the vast majority good , but not always-
You get let out of junctions way way more often than in a 911- and lots more people make positive comments at the pumps.
I do also miss the manual gearbox of the gt3 but its way better than those horrible PDK things- (imo of course)
It does need some space to enjoy it.. I was in essex the other day - and not having to drive ridiculously fast, I was having a ball on wet 50 mph flowing roads...but when the traffic is awful- its also a nice place to be- interior is no bentley but it has everything and the seats are very good for long journeys..
My feeling is that while I can Ill always have one...to me it makes modern standard porsches seem dull (modern porsches- Id only have a gt / rs model) but that doesn't mean you can't look at anything else..- thats why I was in Essex, visiting Paul Stephens.
People have been force fed 'lighter is better' by car magazines, regardless of a car's individual qualities or intended purpose. It's usually employed as a device to supplant actual opinion and present a subjective view as fact. If people didn't have spec sheets in front of them I would bet they couldn't accurately guess the kerb weight of most cars.
Gio G said:
toasty said:
Just want a slightly stretched version with usable rear seats.
What he said.. How much of the market place did they lose, because you can't fit kids in the back? They should have lost some of that boot space..After measuring the RC's when taking bush flex into account?
Like they hadn't done that before?
Basically, we tweaked the chassis based on lots more feedback over the years, but they have to make out they did some brainy maths to optimise it.
Cam bolts for more accurate camber? Does that mean it's easier to set a desired camber when doing an alignment, or something during actual operation... I'm sure it's the latter.
As fantastic as the GTR is, and as sensible sounding as some of the upgrades are in a direct sense (stronger hubs etc), they really need to stop over-egging some of these changes as it makes them sound ridiculous. Maybe something is lost in translation?
Dave
Like they hadn't done that before?
Basically, we tweaked the chassis based on lots more feedback over the years, but they have to make out they did some brainy maths to optimise it.
Cam bolts for more accurate camber? Does that mean it's easier to set a desired camber when doing an alignment, or something during actual operation... I'm sure it's the latter.
As fantastic as the GTR is, and as sensible sounding as some of the upgrades are in a direct sense (stronger hubs etc), they really need to stop over-egging some of these changes as it makes them sound ridiculous. Maybe something is lost in translation?
Dave
anonymous said:
[redacted]
The extra 200-400kg does make a difference on the corners - Newton's law sees to that. Try putting 10 bags of 40kg cement around any car and see how it corners, brakes and accelerates. Nissan do offer a lighter track based car so they do believe a car that weighs less makes a difference. Companies like Lotus go to great lengths to make their cars light and nimble as possible.The argument that a 1740+kg car has better grip based on static weight does not standup. I suspect the reason for the weight is down to crash protection, comfort and refinement requirements. Removing these or using lighter materials such as aluminium/carbon will help reduce weight but at a cost.
I would love to see this car in a lighter form - hopefully they will, but pleease not at the usual extra cost such as the 997 4.0 GT3 RS or GT2 RS.
tjlees said:
The extra 200-400kg does make a difference on the corners - Newton's law sees to that. Try putting 10 bags of 40kg cement around any car and see how it corners, brakes and accelerates. Nissan do offer a lighter track based car so they do believe a car that weighs less makes a difference. Companies like Lotus go to great lengths to make their cars light and nimble as possible.
The argument that a 1740+kg car has better grip based on static weight does not standup. I suspect the reason for the weight is down to crash protection, comfort and refinement requirements. Removing these or using lighter materials such as aluminium/carbon will help reduce weight but at a cost.
I would love to see this car in a lighter form - hopefully they will, but pleease not at the usual extra cost such as the 997 4.0 GT3 RS or GT2 RS.
I'd love for the latter part of your statement to be true, it's just a shame that performance cars these days seem to be more expensive when less (weight) means a higher price! The argument that a 1740+kg car has better grip based on static weight does not standup. I suspect the reason for the weight is down to crash protection, comfort and refinement requirements. Removing these or using lighter materials such as aluminium/carbon will help reduce weight but at a cost.
I would love to see this car in a lighter form - hopefully they will, but pleease not at the usual extra cost such as the 997 4.0 GT3 RS or GT2 RS.
That said, would I be right in thinking that certain lighter version of Renaultsport Clio's are actually slightly cheaper than fully specced models? Lambo, Ferrari, Porsche - take the initiative!
Carl_Docklands said:
Question for Pistonheads: given the history here with Nissan's GT-R lap times, questions about tyres, did they run with over-boosted engines, nobody else outside of nissan able to replicate etc.
Did you guys ask Nissan rep for proof of 'ring lap time (youtube vbox, video) ?
And if you did not, are you going to ?
Looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_N%C3%BCrburgr... ....Did you guys ask Nissan rep for proof of 'ring lap time (youtube vbox, video) ?
And if you did not, are you going to ?
| Length | Time | Car | Driver | Who |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 20,600 m (67,600 ft) | 7:34 | Nissan GT-R (2011) | Horst von Saurma | Sport Auto (11/2010) |
| 20,600 m (67,600 ft) | 7:38 | Nissan GT-R | Horst von Saurma | Sport Auto (07/2009) |
.... is more believable and as a comparison
| 20,600 m (67,600 ft) | 7:38 | Ferrari 458 Italia | Horst von Saurma | Sport Auto (08/2010) |
| 20,600 m (67,600 ft) | 7:33 | Porsche 911 GT3 RS 997MkII | Horst von Saurma | Sport Auto (04/2010) |
| 20,600 m (67,600 ft) | 7:24 | Porsche 911 GT2 RS | Horst von Saurma | Sport Auto |
The latter GT2 RS is a £170k+ car!
...and of course with downforce and less weight but still road legal
| 20,600 m (67,600 ft) | 6:48 | Radical SR8 LM | Michael Vergers | Radical Sportscars |
... for around £60k. Even cheaper than GTR and British - though some sacrifices for ride, refinement, comfort and practicality
I think the tests conducted by the manufacturers may have fettled machinery or guys with f
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