Explain: Ford Escort Cosworth
Discussion
JayTee94 said:
Hi,
I was just thinking that there are some cars I do not get, or cars where I fail to see the hype. Then I remembered that Chris Harris also has those thoughts on certain cars aswell, so in a similar idea - I start this thread in the hope that people can explain why they are attracted to a certain car. While I have been thinking there are a few cars I do not get this may be the first installment or Volume1. First contender:
Ford Escort Cosworth.
It raises a few questions, or maybe reasons as to why they get the hype they do:
- Is it the WRC connection?
- Is it the mad styling (ie: spioler etc etc)?
- Is it just because you like Fords?
For me, it was the bonnet vents, the wide arches (with vents) and the rear wing.I was just thinking that there are some cars I do not get, or cars where I fail to see the hype. Then I remembered that Chris Harris also has those thoughts on certain cars aswell, so in a similar idea - I start this thread in the hope that people can explain why they are attracted to a certain car. While I have been thinking there are a few cars I do not get this may be the first installment or Volume1. First contender:
Ford Escort Cosworth.
It raises a few questions, or maybe reasons as to why they get the hype they do:
- Is it the WRC connection?
- Is it the mad styling (ie: spioler etc etc)?
- Is it just because you like Fords?
Just SOOOO cool.
(The drive - about 10 years after I first fell in love with them - was a huge disappointment however)
monthefish said:
JayTee94 said:
Hi,
I was just thinking that there are some cars I do not get, or cars where I fail to see the hype. Then I remembered that Chris Harris also has those thoughts on certain cars aswell, so in a similar idea - I start this thread in the hope that people can explain why they are attracted to a certain car. While I have been thinking there are a few cars I do not get this may be the first installment or Volume1. First contender:
Ford Escort Cosworth.
It raises a few questions, or maybe reasons as to why they get the hype they do:
- Is it the WRC connection?
- Is it the mad styling (ie: spioler etc etc)?
- Is it just because you like Fords?
For me, it was the bonnet vents, the wide arches (with vents) and the rear wing.I was just thinking that there are some cars I do not get, or cars where I fail to see the hype. Then I remembered that Chris Harris also has those thoughts on certain cars aswell, so in a similar idea - I start this thread in the hope that people can explain why they are attracted to a certain car. While I have been thinking there are a few cars I do not get this may be the first installment or Volume1. First contender:
Ford Escort Cosworth.
It raises a few questions, or maybe reasons as to why they get the hype they do:
- Is it the WRC connection?
- Is it the mad styling (ie: spioler etc etc)?
- Is it just because you like Fords?
Just SOOOO cool.
(The drive - about 10 years after I first fell in love with them - was a huge disappointment however)
It's not a difficult one to understand, I don't think. For those who don't get the appeal, either they aren't that into Ford in general (which is fair enough, as I too don't have any great affinity) or don't see rallying as something aspirational (I dreamt about listening to Nicky Grist).
Cledus Snow said:
This is proper car crash thread.
Most threads with 300bhp/ton end up like this. You get used to it. Not quite sure why people are amazed that the OP (with 94 in his name, which to me implies a year of birth) hasn't driven one. Anyway. From the horse's mouth: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrugbVbFNEE
All the Cosworths were about £100k+ performance at blue collar prices, with a huge race proven heritage. Bog standard they weren't that fast, but it didn't take many tweaks to get a huge amount of oomph from them. Personally, the Escort didn't have the charisma that the Sierras had, but in engineering terms they were certainly another step on.
JayTee94 said:
Hi,
We then move to that spoiler, it just looks like an after-thought and a bit tacky.
Usually the first thing people comment on when they see these. It had IIRC 200 hours of wind tunnel development thrown at it, and much like the original Sierra whale tail, it's meant to be there. There was a spoiler delete option for the cars, FOC, which was most popular in Germany. But I think the car looks a bit daft without it; it's clearly missing something and it'll do the drive good too. We then move to that spoiler, it just looks like an after-thought and a bit tacky.
As to why do I love the Escort Cosworth? I'm definitely more into the Sierra Cosworth (my favourite car of all time, and one I nearly ended up buying). But the Escort typifies and age where Ford were daring market leaders. The Escort Cosworth was never wildly successful in rally, coming in at the back end of the Detla Integrale's reign and just before the Japanese started wielding the big guns. But they are a superbly cool car, the likes of which Ford will never make again. I love that they feel refreshingly simple. They are a great drive, I am especially fond of the big turbo model's all-or-nothing power delivery.
The Ford Cosworths are just cars that get under your skin. Some of my mates are serving and ex-traffic cops who used to get to drive Sierra and Escort Cosworths on a daily basis. These guys are without a doubt the luckiest men alive. I have a photograph of a Northumbria Police Escort Cosworth on my phone wallpaper!
300bhp/ton said:
Thanks doogz. So I take it you agree that an Escort Coswoth is actually a Sierra Costworth then?
I own both.An Escort Cosworth is identical to a Sapphire 4x4 in effect regarding the floor pan & engine/drivetrain. The Bodyshell was hand built by Karman as has already been mentioned, and shares only the bootlid & doors with a standard Escort shell. It was allegedly around 130% stiffer than the Sierra Bodyshell in torsional tests.
You could unbolt every mechanical part from a Siera Sapphire 4x4 Cosworth ,from the radiator to the rear diff, & it would all bolt into the Escort shell quite happily, the only thing you would need is a slightly shorter prop shaft as the floor pan was shortened slightly to fit the Escort body shell.
However, there were a number of refinements & updates to the running gear when they created the Escort,( ignoring the run out T25 model) namely a bigger T3\4 turbo (known as a T34) , P8 webber Marelli ECU, damper & spring rate changes, roll bars stiffened up & a few other bits like engine hoses etc to fit the tighter bay.
The biggest improvement was a shorter wheel base, much shorter overhangs each end of the chassis, and of course it was the first mass produced road car to produce negative lift at both ends of the car. Drive one without the front airdam & splitter & you can really feel the difference, and above 140ish MPH you can really feel the aero holding the car back compared to a Sapphire.
A standard Cosworth is not that quick really, although back in the day it was still a very fast car, but with mild tuning 350Bhp is very,very easily found & transforms the car, 400Bhp can be squeezed out with only bolt on parts, and well over 500Bhp is available if you are willing to accept that drivability & engine life are reduced, although modern ECU & turbo packages make this far more accessible now.
I have owned a Cosworth of some description constantly for 13 years now, once they are in your blood you are doomed!
Dave200 said:
Ahh... A 300bhp/ton thread being derailed and descending into arguing about semantics. Haven't seen this particular party-piece in a while...
Another thread ruined with this sort of stuff, If you have not owned one or used one what is the basis for spouting all this info ie if you have no first hand knowledge so how can you give any useful advice?300bhp/ton said:
fathomfive said:
Where did I say mildly faceifted Sierra?
You said 'effectively' and in other Cosworth threads it has been implied that it is nothing more than a Sierra. I was merely trying to comment to say it's actually more than just a Sierra..... 
effectively definition; "in actuality or reality or fact"
So you said "Wasn't the base car effectively a Sierra"
Which would mean "Wasn't the base car actually a Sierra"
You may have not said 'facelift', but I was just trying to generalise on the point being made.
HTH
1) a 2006 American action film, written and directed by Mark Neveldine and Brian Taylor, and starring Jason Statham, Amy Smart, Jose Pablo Cantillo, Efren Ramirez, and Dwight Yoakam
2) an arm attached at right angles to a rotating shaft by which reciprocating motion is imparted to or received from the shaft
3) 300bhp/ton
HTH
V8RX7 said:
I haven't read 6 pages but has anyone answered why are they worth so much when an Evo / Impreza is worth so little ?
(I guess it's the very limited supply)
I fail to understand why someone would choose one over an Evo / Scooby that are arguably better cars that cost far less
Less than 1100 Escort Cosworths left in the UK, Evo & imprezas are ten a penny & have not aged at all well IMHO.(I guess it's the very limited supply)
I fail to understand why someone would choose one over an Evo / Scooby that are arguably better cars that cost far less
If you want the ultimate tuned 2.0 turbo road rally car then the Evo & impreza are years ahead & should be, but lack the character , nostalgia & brute power delivery of the Cosworths.
You own a Cosworth because you want one now, not because it is the best car out there, you can apply the sane argument to pretty much any older car now like the e-type etc.
V8RX7 said:
I haven't read 6 pages but has anyone answered why are they worth so much when an Evo / Impreza is worth so little ?
(I guess it's the very limited supply)
I fail to understand why someone would choose one over an Evo / Scooby that are arguably better cars that cost far less
(I guess it's the very limited supply)
I fail to understand why someone would choose one over an Evo / Scooby that are arguably better cars that cost far less
Why would someone pay £94k for an ancient old Vauxhall when you could buy a top spec VXR8 and have a huge pile of cash left over?
Why are old Jag E-Types being sold for more than a brand new Jag XF-R?
Why are tidy Mk2 Escorts now fetching upwards of £10k, when you can pick up a Mk1 Focus for under a grand which is a far better car in most peoples view?
300bhp/ton said:
<snip>
Range Rover and Disco
Disco and Defender
Defender and Range Rover
<snip>
classic RR and Discovery 1 are basically the same the chassis - this was huge cost saving for Land Rover Range Rover and Disco
Disco and Defender
Defender and Range Rover
<snip>
'soft dash' RR classic dash and revised dash for the disco 1 are very similar,
there have been a variety of Discovery / RR classic crossbreeds built at various times
classic RR / discovery 1 and Defender are reasonably clsely related , but equally the defender / 90/ 110/ 130 has plenty in common with Series II and III LAnd rovers and the phase 1 V8
Mr2Mike said:
V8RX7 said:
I haven't read 6 pages but has anyone answered why are they worth so much when an Evo / Impreza is worth so little ?
(I guess it's the very limited supply)
I fail to understand why someone would choose one over an Evo / Scooby that are arguably better cars that cost far less
(I guess it's the very limited supply)
I fail to understand why someone would choose one over an Evo / Scooby that are arguably better cars that cost far less
Why would someone pay £94k for an ancient old Vauxhall when you could buy a top spec VXR8 and have a huge pile of cash left over?
Why are old Jag E-Types being sold for more than a brand new Jag XF-R?
Why are tidy Mk2 Escorts now fetching upwards of £10k, when you can pick up a Mk1 Focus for under a grand which is a far better car in most peoples view?
An Escort Cosworth doesn't look any better, go any better or have a better image.
It is also of the same type, engine size, 4WD and period of the early Scoobs / Evos
So I am comparing apples with apples whilst your examples aren't.
Although I do wonder why RWD Escorts fetch such silly prices whilst Chevettes (which are directly comparable) don't.
There was a time when I would have given anything for an Escort/Sierra with the legendary Cosworth name on it.
Now I'm not so sure.
Sure It's still a dream car of mine, mostly because of a childhood fascination with them as when I stayed in Aylesbury as a child a neighbours friend had a Mallard green one and the whaletail/extreme styling was what caught my attention.
But Now I think it would better kept as a dream as the 212bhp (is that right for these with the T25?) would probably disappoint me after having my daily which is 256bhp and a whole lot more torque. Sure I could get one and spend a small fortune on making it faster...but when it has cost me £150 to go from 170 to256bhp on this car it's seeming like the more sensible option.
On the other hand how hard would it be to put a Saab engine into a sierra with an omega gearbox......*off to browse classifieds*
Now I'm not so sure.
Sure It's still a dream car of mine, mostly because of a childhood fascination with them as when I stayed in Aylesbury as a child a neighbours friend had a Mallard green one and the whaletail/extreme styling was what caught my attention.
But Now I think it would better kept as a dream as the 212bhp (is that right for these with the T25?) would probably disappoint me after having my daily which is 256bhp and a whole lot more torque. Sure I could get one and spend a small fortune on making it faster...but when it has cost me £150 to go from 170 to256bhp on this car it's seeming like the more sensible option.
On the other hand how hard would it be to put a Saab engine into a sierra with an omega gearbox......*off to browse classifieds
*
Rally (or indeed any other kind of) homologation specials are always cool. There isn't a single exception to that rule. It has proper rally heritage and could probably take on the stages if you simply drove off the road and went down a dirt track.
It looks insane in that perfect late 80's/early 90's way. Huge spoiler, big arches, properly aggressive. Performance cars of that era are cool without doubt.
It has fecking huge turbo lag.
It's a fast Ford. Despite not being a huge Ford fan, fast ones are cool.
I suspect they don't stack up to modern standards but what do you expect? It's 20 years old.
It looks insane in that perfect late 80's/early 90's way. Huge spoiler, big arches, properly aggressive. Performance cars of that era are cool without doubt.
It has fecking huge turbo lag.
It's a fast Ford. Despite not being a huge Ford fan, fast ones are cool.
I suspect they don't stack up to modern standards but what do you expect? It's 20 years old.
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