Explain: Ford Escort Cosworth

[s m]

interloper said:

. In truth a standard car is still quick, it may not have huge grunt by todays standards but it weighs in about 200kg less than your modern fast Focuses and Golfs, power to weight ratios are always important!

It's roughly GT86 performance as standard ( which you'd expect as it has a similar power to weight ) but as we all know from threads on here that won't cut the mustard these days

[RWD cossie wil]

s m said:

It's roughly GT86 performance as standard ( which you'd expect as it has a similar power to weight ) but as we all know from threads on here that won't cut the mustard these days

You have to remember the Sierra Cosworth with 205Bhp in 1986 was absolutly top of its game, with a simple stage 1 conversion requiring nothing except a remap, 270-280bhp released & similar torque, it scared most 911s into a ditch! Even in 1994 227Bhp was a goodly amount of power, but we are used to it now in 2012, the numbers don't seem so impressive.

However, as someone above has mentioned, even though most modern cars have an extra 100+Bhp as standard, they are also carrying a vast amount of extra flab, so the power to weight ratios have only crept up slightly.

[Si_steve]

RWD cossie wil said:

A small fortune? One of the prime advantages of any version of Cosworth is the ease & cheapness of tuning.

Especially the big turbo Escort, with the T34 you can easily push 350Bhp+ with just a set of injectors, an actuator, 3 bar map sensor & a chip. Looking at £4-500 for brand new kit, which would take you 2 hours max to fit.

If you want to go further the world is your oyster.

My personal favourite is a 400Bhp/400Lbs ft conversion, all bolt on without touching the core engine, doable for £1k.

400Bhp with huge midranget torque is a very, very fast car!

People saying they are laggy might not appreciate the difference between boost threshold & actual turbo lag, it is simply a case of driving the car properly, same as most tuned N/A engines needing to get "on cam" before they actually start to go sonwhere!

Well, to be fair I just went from 170bhp to 256bhp-295ftlb for £150

I could spend £1k and have 500bhp all day long if I really wanted...But that's not including what I'd need to do to suspension and brakes (often forgotten) only after that would I need to start worrying about internals.

But in fairness, the car i'm using and the Cosworth are 2 completely different cars...I'm just trying to provide some insight from my 'never meet your heroes' stance on the subject as I'd hate to be disappointed by the car.

P.s the daily cost £155 with tax and test which is something the Cosworth can not do. Just sayin...

[RWD cossie wil]

Si_steve said:

Well, to be fair I just went from 170bhp to 256bhp-295ftlb for £150

I could spend £1k and have 500bhp all day long if I really wanted...But that's not including what I'd need to do to suspension and brakes (often forgotten) only after that would I need to start worrying about internals.

But in fairness, the car i'm using and the Cosworth are 2 completely different cars...I'm just trying to provide some insight from my 'never meet your heroes' stance on the subject as I'd hate to be disappointed by the car.

P.s the daily cost £155 with tax and test which is something the Cosworth can not do. Just sayin...

What car is that?

[matthias73]

NateWM said:

As said, it was all to do with their cheap price considering how much performance you got.

Get a good, reliable stage 1 map to around 270hp, fit uprated dampers and springs and put on better brakes, and you will be left with a B-Road blaster capable of leaving cars tens times its worth for dead!

!

Well, considering prices are at 15k, I doubt it could leave modern sports cars worth 150k for dead

Unless you mean back in the good old days, in which case I shall forgive you provided you edit your post to the past tense.

[Si_steve]

RWD cossie wil said:

What car is that?

Saab 9000 2.3t

[RWD cossie wil]

Si_steve said:

Saab 9000 2.3t

500bhp for 1k?!

[Si_steve]

Big holset from a truck (I have one sitting about) Bosch green giant injectors 3" downpipe cheap 3" home built exhaust and remap to suit the hardware.

But it wouldn't be very driveable...But that doesn't seem to be on the agenda does it?

[RWD cossie wil]

Depends on your version of drivable! The 400/400 conversion I mentioned earlier would drive better than a standard car of well mapped, you can get rid of a lot of the standard cars lethargy, over a bar of boost at 2.5k isn't too shabby IMHO!

Those Saab engines are fantastic bits of kit, very sturdy & I'm amazed they are not used more to be honest. Lad on passionford has one rear mounted in a Nova(!!) running about 400Bhp using similar methods to what you describe, interesting to say the least!

[s m]

interloper said:

In truth a standard car is still quick, it may not have huge grunt by todays standards but it weighs in about 200kg less than your modern fast Focuses and Golfs, power to weight ratios are always important!

Autocar did a test at the Millbrook Hill route of an assortment of cars recently - not fast but as said, light compared to many cars of today. Won't match today's stuff like the mighty Meganes or mad Mercs on standard horsepower though

[Si_steve]

RWD cossie wil said:

Depends on your version of drivable! The 400/400 conversion I mentioned earlier would drive better than a standard car of well mapped, you can get rid of a lot of the standard cars lethargy, over a bar of boost at 2.5k isn't too shabby IMHO!

Those Saab engines are fantastic bits of kit, very sturdy & I'm amazed they are not used more to be honest. Lad on passionford has one rear mounted in a Nova(!!) running about 400Bhp using similar methods to what you describe, interesting to say the least!

This is true, which is why I'd love to put one into a saph 1.8 shell with the cossie bits on the outside. There's a guy who's put one into the back of a reliant kitten...Kinda like a poor mans cossie but with all the same potential.

It's all dependant on how the car is mapped...it's very easy to go for stupid amounts of bhp etc but actually quite difficult to make it driveable/usable. I ran with a manual boost controller for a bit (stupid I know) and all the car did was wheelspin in first and second (most of the way through third if it was even slightly damp)After being shown how to work the mapping stuff, it's a revelation.

Having a boost limit in first and second (boost is mapped to creep in in second though)and having a wave of torque in the higher gears is fantastic...brilliant for overtaking

Here's the graph


The actuator spring is going a bit soft hence the slight dip in the curve after the initial climb (It's not keeping up with that the ECU is wanting it to do)

(I'm aware the crossover point is wrong and should br 5250, i'm informed the graph was printed -1000rpm on the scale)

[s m]

Zad said:

Anyway. From the horse's mouth: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrugbVbFNEE

Enjoyed that one

Anyone remember Mr Clarkson reminiscing?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLebmoXOukc

Edited by s m on Thursday 8th November 20:13

[Dairylea1982]

markCSC]Firstly it is based on the Sierra platform but just looks like an Escort. [edit] typed too slowly[/edit said:

The reason people love them is because:
a) It was a performance car for "normal" people. You didn't have to take a 2nd mortgage to buy and service them
b) it was easy to get more power out of them
c) It has real rally heritage
d) It looks bonkers
e) People like fast Fords

It was made for a purpose, to win rallies. I can therefore forgive the naff interior and the slightly tacky wing

I agree with Mark, I love this car, not because it's tecnologicaly advanced, not because it's full to the brim with gadgets and gizmos and not because it's supersonic. I love it because of its mad styling and with the repsol livery it looked even better. JeremyClarkson one said "you don't buy these cars with your head, you buy them with your heart, and that's what this is, it's love, and who can explain love?" For it's time it was awesome. you can't compare it to the Evo X or the latest Impreza, these cars have time and technology on thier sides. I do think they should have kept the whale tail instead of opting for the WRC spoiler (although it was probably better for performance)It doesn't bother me that it shares parts with other cars, look what VW did with the golf after "sharing" a few parts. No, you can't use the W12 on the road (or anywhere for that matter) but just look at it. It's a Golf, as much as the RS cosworth is an Escort. The RS500 never appealed to me, I always prefered the Saphire, but then that's just me. The RS200 on the other hand, that was a bonkers little car.

The one car i really don't get is the Toyota GT86 aka: Subaru BRZ Sti aka: Scion FR-S. Yes, i understand the 2 companies sharing technology but surely it would have been better to take the new tech and incorperate it in the individual companies own project? and considering the engine was of Subaru design, and the "boxer" engine was origionally designed as part of a 4wd system, why won't Subaru offer a 4wd version?

Edited by Dairylea1982 on Friday 3rd May 20:29