Explain: Ford Escort Cosworth
Discussion
Unlike its contemporaries Ford had the hindsight to at least stick the engine the right way round! For that alone Ford should receive mucho respect from the PH community. A bodge it may be but it was a proper homologation special built by the skunkworks of the car industry at the time. Eg people who loved engineering & cars.
Everything else by everyone else 4wd was a FWD car with some weedy drivetrain to the rear wheels, except for the Japanese.
However it still drove like a Sierra but we'll keep that quiet
Everything else by everyone else 4wd was a FWD car with some weedy drivetrain to the rear wheels, except for the Japanese.
However it still drove like a Sierra but we'll keep that quiet
300bhp/ton said:
fathomfive said:
Wasn't the base car effectively a Sierra, with cannily grafted Escort bits on the outside / interior?
Or did I dream that?
Or did I dream that?
Jonny1984 said:
Aren't the Escort Cosworths based on the Sierra platform? I've never driven one, but standard ones are supposed to feel their age now. I just love how they look 
Not really no. These vehicles are of monocoque construction, not a ladder chassis. So while a Sierra might have been a starting point, it's more than just a couple of bashed panels to make the Escort RS Cosworth.If you want to simply it, then yes ok it is a Sierra, but only in the same way a BMW Z3 is only an e30 3 Series....
Z3 is on an an E36 platform, with E30 rear suspension
PAUL500 said:
It was a car built for a purpose, constrained by a set of regulations.
The only reason a road version existed at all was the need to produce 2500 in order for them to compete in motorsport which was its sole reason for being produced. Without those regulations the car would never have seen the light of day.
True, but they made 7200 Escort Cosworth's, most not destined for rally use.The only reason a road version existed at all was the need to produce 2500 in order for them to compete in motorsport which was its sole reason for being produced. Without those regulations the car would never have seen the light of day.
300bhp/ton said:
PAUL500 said:
It was a car built for a purpose, constrained by a set of regulations.
The only reason a road version existed at all was the need to produce 2500 in order for them to compete in motorsport which was its sole reason for being produced. Without those regulations the car would never have seen the light of day.
True, but they made 7200 Escort Cosworth's, most not destined for rally use.The only reason a road version existed at all was the need to produce 2500 in order for them to compete in motorsport which was its sole reason for being produced. Without those regulations the car would never have seen the light of day.
The escos was conceived during a booming late 80s economy, Ford riding the wave of success of the parent cosworths foresaw a much greater market than that, hence the much higher numbers built helping to reduce the asking price. By the time it arrived we were in recession and Ford struggled to shift them but contractually they still had to be built by Karmann, plus huge insurance killed them off in the end. There were plans for further versions but the market was not there in the end. Had it been you could buy one for a lot less now as a result I imagine.
A Monte Carlo rally winner, homologation special with power and looks that were affordable at the time. What's not to get?
With the success of the Group A Sierras in the BTCC/ETCC and Australia, a huge market for modifications grew around the YB engine which was based on the already established and tunable Pinto. A lot of tuners like Rousesport and Graham Goode Racing were building engines capable of 500bhp+ and making them reasonbly reliable as well for customers and race teams alike. So, it was a natural progression to apply the same things to the Escort, these guys are still working on the YB with some capable of 1000bhp+ and 200mph.
With the success of the Group A Sierras in the BTCC/ETCC and Australia, a huge market for modifications grew around the YB engine which was based on the already established and tunable Pinto. A lot of tuners like Rousesport and Graham Goode Racing were building engines capable of 500bhp+ and making them reasonbly reliable as well for customers and race teams alike. So, it was a natural progression to apply the same things to the Escort, these guys are still working on the YB with some capable of 1000bhp+ and 200mph.
A.J.M said:
As a fan I will step up.
The bodyshell is not a proper mk5 escort. It's slightly longer and has a cut down sierra 4x4 platform underneath. The the back wheel to door gap is larger than on a standard one, which is a good way to tell a genuine from a fake.
The spoiler works with the front bumper to provide downforce, removing the spoiler gives an extra 4 mph to the top speed of a standard example. 144 instead of 140. Very much designed to be with the car, apart from in Switzerland where the large spoiler is banned.
The engine can be turned from 227 to silly power if you're pockets are deep enough. About a grand will get it to the 300bhp mark, 350bhp is a decent figure as the gearbox needs strengthened to take more.
Like other 80s/90s hot hatches it was a homologation special, built in low numbers and with a decent background in rallying and being a reasonably good car to drive.
A good if expensive platform to build a very capable car.
As a realist, I'll step up:The bodyshell is not a proper mk5 escort. It's slightly longer and has a cut down sierra 4x4 platform underneath. The the back wheel to door gap is larger than on a standard one, which is a good way to tell a genuine from a fake.
The spoiler works with the front bumper to provide downforce, removing the spoiler gives an extra 4 mph to the top speed of a standard example. 144 instead of 140. Very much designed to be with the car, apart from in Switzerland where the large spoiler is banned.
The engine can be turned from 227 to silly power if you're pockets are deep enough. About a grand will get it to the 300bhp mark, 350bhp is a decent figure as the gearbox needs strengthened to take more.
Like other 80s/90s hot hatches it was a homologation special, built in low numbers and with a decent background in rallying and being a reasonably good car to drive.
A good if expensive platform to build a very capable car.
Engines can be tuned to silly power if you accept rebuilds as standard servicing. There are numerous ones competing in our local saloon car championship and I dont recall a race meeting this year where the track wasnt in need of cement dusting courtesy of one of them moving on from smoking to sludging. 300hp for a grand is pretty similar to Imprezas and GT-Fours, dont know about Imprezas but I know you can throw a s
t load more than 350hp through a GT-Four box before it will need strengthening."Decent background in rallying" - From introduction; humped by the ST185 Celica, humped by the ST205 Celica, humped by classic Impreza, humped by Evo 4 onwards, humped by Corolla WRC. "Decent amount of time in the background of rallying" might be more accurate.
Values are propped up by the relative rarity. Impreza, GT-Four and Evo prices are pulled down by their greater availability. Plus, theres also the RS tax that Fordophiles are always willing to pay.
I'm with the OP.
Hugo a Gogo said:
it is a Sierra floorpan welded to the rest of an Escort shell (modded to fit) to make a monocoque
Z3 is on an an E36 platform, with E30 rear suspension
Considering almost every dimension of the Escort is different to the Sierra I'd say there was maybe slightly more work involved than "it's just a Sierra with an Escort bodyshell", as being proclaimed by some Z3 is on an an E36 platform, with E30 rear suspension
I don't deny the floorpan hailed from the Sierra, but I think it is a dis-justice to the Escort to proclaim it isn't something more.| RS Escort | RS Sierra | |
|---|---|---|
| Wheelbase | 100.4 | 102.7 |
| Track (front) | 60 | 57.2 |
| Track (rear) | 62 | 57.8 |
| Length | 165.8 | 174.2 |
| Width | 68.3 | 67.9 |
| Height | 55.3 | 55.9 |
| length:wheelbase ratio | 1.65 | 1.7 |
| Kerb weight | 1275 kg | 1220kg |
OP - you're 17 - you don't get it because you don't understand the history or the impact at the time it was launched given you were just a twitch in your dads nuts at the time.
It's an emotional car and you're trying to rationalise it against the sum of its parts but you have to understand it was something special in comparison to what else was out then.
It's an emotional car and you're trying to rationalise it against the sum of its parts but you have to understand it was something special in comparison to what else was out then.
I drove one in 1994 as a 20 yr old Ford mechanic and wasn't impressed. Nothing great about them. Just RSOC hype about a Cosworth. The first 2500 with the Magnetti Marelli engine management and t4 turbo might be worth a little more, but like the RS500 Sierra, they are not the best to drive. Better off with the T3 turbo and Forc EECIV ECU.
Pommygranite said:
OP - you're 17 - you don't get it because you don't understand the history or the impact at the time it was launched given you were just a twitch in your dads nuts at the time.
It's an emotional car and you're trying to rationalise it against the sum of its parts but you have to understand it was something special in comparison to what else was out then.
I'm not 17 and I recall the days before the Escort (albeit not with a driving licence). And while I can appreciate it's rally heritage - they never appealed at all and still don't. I just don't get why you'd want anythingIt's an emotional car and you're trying to rationalise it against the sum of its parts but you have to understand it was something special in comparison to what else was out then.
a) called Escort
b) looked remotely like the MK5 Escorts even if it had 800hp
Also as a competition car I think it's fair to say the Escort Cosworth was quite a failure.
The Crack Fox said:
Here's one I don't get, the BMX X6, can anyone explain it's appeal ?
Simple- If you've had a Sensectomy, they're a perfect car.symptoms of a sensectomy include (but are not limited to):-
Orange Skin
Liking the Only Way is Essex
Thinking Chantelle is a good name for a child.
Carrying a dog in your handbag, rather than things like keys/purse etc.
its cars like this that I honestly cannot see the niche market for. so many manufacturers are doing it now too- rubbish!
Hugo a Gogo said:
but it is
ok?
Selective quoting... well done ok?
It's based on 'part' of the platform... no idea how much, but considering a monocoque consists of the entire structure it's probably fair to guess at 20-40% max and maybe a whole lot less.
As said, the only reason for saying, is I think it does the Escort Cosworth a disjustice to simply palm it off as a 'facelifted' Sierra when it isn't.
For example, an Aston DB7 probably shares more in common with a Jag XJ-S than the Escort and Sierra share.
stevesingo said:
I drove one in 1994 as a 20 yr old Ford mechanic and wasn't impressed. Nothing great about them. Just RSOC hype about a Cosworth. The first 2500 with the Magnetti Marelli engine management and t4 turbo might be worth a little more, but like the RS500 Sierra, they are not the best to drive. Better off with the T3 turbo and Ford EECIV ECU.
I think you mean the T34 for the initial 2500 and then the T25 in conjunction with EECIV300bhp/ton said:
Hugo a Gogo said:
it is a Sierra floorpan welded to the rest of an Escort shell (modded to fit) to make a monocoque
Z3 is on an an E36 platform, with E30 rear suspension
Considering almost every dimension of the Escort is different to the Sierra I'd say there was maybe slightly more work involved than "it's just a Sierra with an Escort bodyshell", as being proclaimed by some Z3 is on an an E36 platform, with E30 rear suspension
I don't deny the floorpan hailed from the Sierra, but I think it is a dis-justice to the Escort to proclaim it isn't something more.| RS Escort | RS Sierra | |
|---|---|---|
| Wheelbase | 100.4 | 102.7 |
| Track (front) | 60 | 57.2 |
| Track (rear) | 62 | 57.8 |
| Length | 165.8 | 174.2 |
| Width | 68.3 | 67.9 |
| Height | 55.3 | 55.9 |
| length:wheelbase ratio | 1.65 | 1.7 |
| Kerb weight | 1275 kg | 1220kg |
As for those dimensions, most of them refer to the outer body. The only ones that are remotely meaningful to the discussion are the wheelbase and track and considering they are based on wheels that have components between them and the floorpan they're also irrelevent.
Sorry to butt in.
jimmy the hat said:
Of course it's a monocoque, my 1957 100E is a monocoque and every single UK Ford car since. You could maybe argue that the P100 effectively had a ladder frame at the back and I wouldn't bother taking against it but then that's hardly a car.
As for those dimensions, most of them refer to the outer body. The only ones that are remotely meaningful to the discussion are the wheelbase and track and considering they are based on wheels that have components between them and the floorpan they're also irrelevent.
Sorry to butt in.
Is it not the floorpan we are discussing? Not sure how it is now irrelevant.As for those dimensions, most of them refer to the outer body. The only ones that are remotely meaningful to the discussion are the wheelbase and track and considering they are based on wheels that have components between them and the floorpan they're also irrelevent.
Sorry to butt in.
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