Explain: Ford Escort Cosworth
Discussion
doogz said:
I knew the E36 had the E30 rear suspension, was talking about building an E36 compact race car the other day. Just didn't know if the Z3 was the same platform as the Compact, or if it was different again somehow.
Actually I'm not sure on this. I know it uses the e30 rear suspension as does the e36 compact. And both are pure e36 from the A pillar forward.However whether the rest of the chassis is bespoke to them or an e30 derivative I don't know.
That said, is an e36 a complete clean sheet design in it's own right, or did BMW use past/current platforms as influence? Again I don't know, but I doubt it was completely new in every respect.
300bhp/ton said:
Hugo a Gogo said:
you're being a bit obtuse here, the wheelbase and track don't reflect the exact dimensions of the floorpan (platform)
I'm being obtuse because I'm trying to actually support the Esocrt Cosworth.... 
you said the wheelbase and track were different (as well as the external dimensions) to 'prove' this and we've said that doesn't really show what you think it does
Hugo a Gogo said:
jaysus, you said it wasn't 'really' based on the Sierra platform, but it clearly was
you said the wheelbase and track were different (as well as the external dimensions) to 'prove' this and we've said that doesn't really show what you think it does
Yet using your powers of selective quoting you omitted this:you said the wheelbase and track were different (as well as the external dimensions) to 'prove' this and we've said that doesn't really show what you think it does
fathomfive said:
Wasn't the base car effectively a Sierra, with cannily grafted Escort bits on the outside / interior?
Which I also quoted. Are you really trying to say this statement is 100% accurate?Hugo a Gogo said:
300bhp/ton said:
fathomfive said:
Wasn't the base car effectively a Sierra, with cannily grafted Escort bits on the outside / interior?
Or did I dream that?
Or did I dream that?
Jonny1984 said:
Aren't the Escort Cosworths based on the Sierra platform? I've never driven one, but standard ones are supposed to feel their age now. I just love how they look 
Not really no. These vehicles are of monocoque construction, not a ladder chassis. So while a Sierra might have been a starting point, it's more than just a couple of bashed panels to make the Escort RS Cosworth.If you want to simply it, then yes ok it is a Sierra, but only in the same way a BMW Z3 is only an e30 3 Series....
Z3 is on an an E36 platform, with E30 rear suspension
the Escort cossie does use a Sierra floorpan, the Z3 doesn't use an E30 floorpan
what is your point now?
300bhp/ton said:
Pommygranite said:
OP - you're 17 - you don't get it because you don't understand the history or the impact at the time it was launched given you were just a twitch in your dads nuts at the time.
It's an emotional car and you're trying to rationalise it against the sum of its parts but you have to understand it was something special in comparison to what else was out then.
I'm not 17 and I recall the days before the Escort (albeit not with a driving licence). And while I can appreciate it's rally heritage - they never appealed at all and still don't. I just don't get why you'd want anythingIt's an emotional car and you're trying to rationalise it against the sum of its parts but you have to understand it was something special in comparison to what else was out then.
a) called Escort
b) looked remotely like the MK5 Escorts even if it had 800hp
Also as a competition car I think it's fair to say the Escort Cosworth was quite a failure.
Your subjective points about the name Escort and looks are amusing given the complete ugly piles of s
t you have put as cars you admire. But that's opinions for you.I don't understand why you would want a Triumph TR7, MGB, Nissan 100 or a Ford Orion...
JayTee94 said:
The Crack Fox said:
Here's one I don't get, the BMX X6, can anyone explain it's appeal ?
I thought that may make an showing sooner or later, but I will try and keep it on topic - if you want, start a thread about the X6 and I might reply but this thread is about a Ford. Thanks.
Pommygranite said:
My reference to the op is about his age and reference to the spoiler etc which was 'of the time'
Your subjective points about the name Escort and looks are amusing given the complete ugly piles of st you have put as cars you admire. But that's opinions for you.
I don't understand why you would want a Triumph TR7, MGB, Nissan 100 or a Ford Orion...
Nice to see you aren't making it personal or attacking cars I've owned Your subjective points about the name Escort and looks are amusing given the complete ugly piles of s
t you have put as cars you admire. But that's opinions for you.I don't understand why you would want a Triumph TR7, MGB, Nissan 100 or a Ford Orion...
hohum...It's more the Cosworth looks 99% the same as a normal run of the mill Escort, which of the time did not look good IMO. Remove the bling from the Cossy and it's nothing visually.
With reference to the sierra/escos floorpan, to give you an idea of the similarity you can take a 4x4 sierra cosworth, remove the entire engine, all ancillaries, gearbox, complete suspension front and rear,steering, differentials etc etc and simply bolt it straight into an escos shell with no modification at all and it will all fit and work. All that would need altering is a slight shortening of the propshaft. Thats exactly what a lot of the rally teams in fact did, they bought a new bare lightweight escos shell from Ford and swapped it all across from there existing 4x4 sierra cosworth.
Its the only version of the mark 5 escort you could do that to.
Its the only version of the mark 5 escort you could do that to.
300bhp/ton said:
Pommygranite said:
My reference to the op is about his age and reference to the spoiler etc which was 'of the time'
Your subjective points about the name Escort and looks are amusing given the complete ugly piles of st you have put as cars you admire. But that's opinions for you.
I don't understand why you would want a Triumph TR7, MGB, Nissan 100 or a Ford Orion...
Nice to see you aren't making it personal or attacking cars I've owned Your subjective points about the name Escort and looks are amusing given the complete ugly piles of s
t you have put as cars you admire. But that's opinions for you.I don't understand why you would want a Triumph TR7, MGB, Nissan 100 or a Ford Orion...
hohum...It's more the Cosworth looks 99% the same as a normal run of the mill Escort, which of the time did not look good IMO. Remove the bling from the Cossy and it's nothing visually.
Remove the bling from any hot hatch/performance enhanced run of the mill car and of course they'll be visually nothing - that's the point!
PAUL500 said:
With reference to the sierra/escos floorpan, to give you an idea of the similarity you can take a 4x4 sierra cosworth, remove the entire engine, all ancillaries, gearbox, complete suspension front and rear,steering, differentials etc etc and simply bolt it straight into an escos shell with no modification at all and it will all fit and work. All that would need altering is a slight shortening of the propshaft. Thats exactly what a lot of the rally teams in fact did, they bought a new bare lightweight escos shell from Ford and swapped it all across from there existing 4x4 sierra cosworth.
Is the engine not transverse in a non Cosworth Escort though? Anyhow while that's informative and interesting (which it is ), isn't that the complete opposite of supporting that it's just a Sierra in an Escort bodyshell re: the floorpan.In your example non of the floor pan is used at all. And I suppose while thinking about it, if it's as simple as you say, why did Ford go the expense and hassle of not using the Escort floorpan from the standard model?
In the day it was a car the high flying/show off (delete as appropriate) sales guys had, and loved them. I needed a car to go up to Wakefield and, as we used a lot of hire cars, I could ask for any 'normal' car. I couldn't get a Ferrari or Porsche or even a Merc as that was seen as too extravagant but the 'Escort' was able to get under the wire.
The trip was great on the way up it was busy so a gentle cruise if anything. It was a long day and I finally left in the early hours and was able to 'make better progress' back down the motorway. Acceleration was awesome, fuel gauge just watching it move closer to empty LOL.
After a while blue lights came on and I was pulled over. Policeman asked what speed I was doing and, after I got it wrong, he told me the right answer. He had been following me for a while and was struggling to keep up. It was rather fast. Seemed a license looser.
However the PC then spouted of that he had just bought a car exactly the same, down to the colour and the same interior as he was poking head around the car. He advised me to slow down a bit and wished me on my way. (phew!)
Awesome performance, completely impractical, couldn't see behind, thirsty but (in the day) available to anyone - from sales reps to policemen. It had a huge desirability factor because you did see them around, unlike supercars. You could pass one every day on your way to work going the other way and think it COULD be possible to get one.
Car was taken back. Tyres were shot. The next car I got was a 4x4 Celica.
The trip was great on the way up it was busy so a gentle cruise if anything. It was a long day and I finally left in the early hours and was able to 'make better progress' back down the motorway. Acceleration was awesome, fuel gauge just watching it move closer to empty LOL.
After a while blue lights came on and I was pulled over. Policeman asked what speed I was doing and, after I got it wrong, he told me the right answer. He had been following me for a while and was struggling to keep up. It was rather fast. Seemed a license looser.
However the PC then spouted of that he had just bought a car exactly the same, down to the colour and the same interior as he was poking head around the car. He advised me to slow down a bit and wished me on my way. (phew!)
Awesome performance, completely impractical, couldn't see behind, thirsty but (in the day) available to anyone - from sales reps to policemen. It had a huge desirability factor because you did see them around, unlike supercars. You could pass one every day on your way to work going the other way and think it COULD be possible to get one.
Car was taken back. Tyres were shot. The next car I got was a 4x4 Celica.
300bhp/ton said:
Hugo a Gogo said:
here's the whole quote, and what I responded
the Escort cossie does use a Sierra floorpan, the Z3 doesn't use an E30 floorpan
what is your point now?
That you are being difficult for no gain, back tracking and subtly altering your point the Escort cossie does use a Sierra floorpan, the Z3 doesn't use an E30 floorpan
what is your point now?
But please carry on
how have I subtly altered anything or back-tracked?
300bhp/ton said:
PAUL500 said:
With reference to the sierra/escos floorpan, to give you an idea of the similarity you can take a 4x4 sierra cosworth, remove the entire engine, all ancillaries, gearbox, complete suspension front and rear,steering, differentials etc etc and simply bolt it straight into an escos shell with no modification at all and it will all fit and work. All that would need altering is a slight shortening of the propshaft. Thats exactly what a lot of the rally teams in fact did, they bought a new bare lightweight escos shell from Ford and swapped it all across from there existing 4x4 sierra cosworth.
Is the engine not transverse in a non Cosworth Escort though? Anyhow while that's informative and interesting (which it is ), isn't that the complete opposite of supporting that it's just a Sierra in an Escort bodyshell re: the floorpan.In your example non of the floor pan is used at all. And I suppose while thinking about it, if it's as simple as you say, why did Ford go the expense and hassle of not using the Escort floorpan from the standard model?
the Sierra parts fit an Escort Cosworth (Escos) shell
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