RE: Meeting 'Mr GT86'
Discussion
otolith said:
nickfrog said:
I would be astonished if all of the economies of scale are not at least absorbed by the seemingly much higher grade of component and finish that the BMW offers, from the machined calipers to the Michelin Supersport, interior trim,dashboard. seats, carpets etc etc etc
As I said, neither you or me have access to cost prices...
I'm unconvinced that all that superficial "perceived quality" German crap is really expensive to add, but that's just speculation.As I said, neither you or me have access to cost prices...
I obviously don't think the GT86 can ever be £15K base but compared to the M135i it objectively doesn't feel more than £20k worth. I totally agree that other subjective criteria add value to it of course, but personally, I can't see past objective value even to the benefit of subjective benefits.
Edited by nickfrog on Friday 9th November 00:27
nickfrog said:
I obviously don't think the GT86 can ever be £15K base but compared to the M135i it objectively doesn't feel more than £20k worth. I totally agree that other subjective criteria add value to it of course, but personally, I can't see past objective value even to the benefit of subjective benefits.
Yup, but I think the general consensus is that BMW have priced the M135i very generously. And that's before we get a look at the M235i, which I suspect will be a great all round coupe.SSBB said:
otolith said:
It is completely beyond me how anyone can think the GT86 belongs in the first group rather than the second. It makes no sense whatsoever, and can only be the product of either total ignorance about what cars cost or trolling.
This post succinctly demonstrates why the GT86 cannot and will not ever be sold for £15k new. Cars just aren't that cheap these days, especially lower volume models. Reading through this thread and it's very apparent that people just enjoy trolling or extolling their ignorant, out of touch opinions on matters they couldn't really give a crap about.
Hellbound said:
SSBB said:
otolith said:
It is completely beyond me how anyone can think the GT86 belongs in the first group rather than the second. It makes no sense whatsoever, and can only be the product of either total ignorance about what cars cost or trolling.
This post succinctly demonstrates why the GT86 cannot and will not ever be sold for £15k new. Cars just aren't that cheap these days, especially lower volume models. Reading through this thread and it's very apparent that people just enjoy trolling or extolling their ignorant, out of touch opinions on matters they couldn't really give a crap about.
As an aside, the M135i is exceptionally good value - an outlier compared to all its competition. Virtually everything on the market compares badly to the M135i's basic price and its performance.
That said, the average selling price of a M135i is going to be £35k-40k in the UK because UK buyers seem unable to resist the options list. That's quite a different price class to the GT86's £25-28k.
Hellbound said:
I think people just want to sound off about the price. That's all it is really. They don't see any value in the perceived heritage behind the brand and model and they don't see any value behind the philosophy on which the car was founded.
Reading through this thread and it's very apparent that people just enjoy trolling or extolling their ignorant, out of touch opinions on matters they couldn't really give a crap about.
Perhaps that is just it, people do give a crap at how a car that was originally estimated to be around £20k, went to £22k and then to its final rseting at £27k.Reading through this thread and it's very apparent that people just enjoy trolling or extolling their ignorant, out of touch opinions on matters they couldn't really give a crap about.
Price point has always been a contention when it comes to discussion on this car, whether you want to believe peoples views or not, its obviously fact.
Some people dont seem to be concerned at the few extra grand it costs from original forecast figure, sure it may only be a few grand, but looking at figures mention its a whopping 25% more, what is that 25% paying for, its perceived heritage and philosophy?? If someone could enlighten me as to why this figure grew so much on a % basis i would be grateful, unless of course, Toyota just realised the hype had worked and people would pay more as there is no way Toyota suddenly realised they had under estimated its cost by 25%!
RX7 said:
Perhaps that is just it, people do give a crap at how a car that was originally estimated to be around £20k, went to £22k and then to its final rseting at £27k.
Price point has always been a contention when it comes to discussion on this car, whether you want to believe peoples views or not, its obviously fact.
Some people dont seem to be concerned at the few extra grand it costs from original forecast figure, sure it may only be a few grand, but looking at figures mention its a whopping 25% more, what is that 25% paying for, its perceived heritage and philosophy?? If someone could enlighten me as to why this figure grew so much on a % basis i would be grateful, unless of course, Toyota just realised the hype had worked and people would pay more as there is no way Toyota suddenly realised they had under estimated its cost by 25%!
But the gestation period of the GT86 was huge and, if you look at currency fluctuations in that time, it really isn't surprising at all that it rose from an estimated £20k to £25k (not sure where you're getting £27k from). In 2009 I bought a Honda Fireblade - a very Japanese product - for £8,851 but the same bike today, just 3 years later, is £12,000, with its biggest leap in price occurring in 2010. There are many reasons why these prices have risen and equally any comparison to other international market prices need a bit more examining rather than just; "It's cheaper in the USA!". If people genuinely believe they can get a better deal in the USA then they're more than welcome to import one. See how that works out.Price point has always been a contention when it comes to discussion on this car, whether you want to believe peoples views or not, its obviously fact.
Some people dont seem to be concerned at the few extra grand it costs from original forecast figure, sure it may only be a few grand, but looking at figures mention its a whopping 25% more, what is that 25% paying for, its perceived heritage and philosophy?? If someone could enlighten me as to why this figure grew so much on a % basis i would be grateful, unless of course, Toyota just realised the hype had worked and people would pay more as there is no way Toyota suddenly realised they had under estimated its cost by 25%!
RX7 said:
Some people dont seem to be concerned at the few extra grand it costs from original forecast figure, sure it may only be a few grand, but looking at figures mention its a whopping 25% more, what is that 25% paying for, its perceived heritage and philosophy?? If someone could enlighten me as to why this figure grew so much on a % basis i would be grateful...
As I've already pointed out ( and people like you are taking little account of ), take a peek at the exchange rate for JPY during the period you are talking about and you'll see quite a large proportion of your answer...braddo said:
That said, the average selling price of a M135i is going to be £35k-40k in the UK because UK buyers seem unable to resist the options list. That's quite a different price class to the GT86's £25-28k.
I can't agree. At least based on people having specced the car on babybmw.net, people have been going easy on useless/worthless options.Based on the 9% discount, you would struggle to get the car to cost you over £30K as it comes with leather/xenons as std, even with some of those useless/worthless bits on it.
Besides, no one HAS to be buy extras on the M135i, which therefore can be had for £27,300 OTR before paint. And even if a lot of buyers do spend £35k instead, it just means that the cheap car will appear really competitive for the second owner compared to over specced cars.
Rawwr said:
Having stupid people agreeing with your stupidity is not something to celebrate.
Mmmm, personal insult, fair enough, if that is your mentality.Let me tell you a little story. Many years ago there was uproar in the biking community when it was found you could buy a bike from the eu, from a dealer, far far cheaper than in the UK. There was the usual bs, exchange rates, import tax's, blah, blah, blah! The dealers defended the prices, the manufacturers defended their UK prices. I think the peak came, when it was found out you could buy a Triumph, build in the UK, exported to the EU, bought from a dealer and imported back into this country for considerably less than a UK dealer.
In the end they all put their hands up and basically said, you have been paying the UK prices, if you didnt pay it, we wouldnt have been able to charge it and would have had to drop the price.
Supply and demand in very basic terms, fortunately i am blessed with the intelligence to not believe everything i see, hear or read and experiences like the above in life have made me realise more often than not, we are having our pants pulled down.
So wrong on the £27k, but its still 25% more, from £20k to £25k, i dont need to look at the exchange rate to tell me its just down to that, what was the difference in exchange rate 20 yen to the pound?
Its just the same as the GTR when first released being somewhere around £32k in Japan and ending up at over £50k here....and people wonder this country is in such a state
MajorTom said:
I was feeling lonely and felt so happy to have a friend
Genuine question here Tom, I'm not into slagging people off etc.... Can you not at least see that there is no way the car can be anywhere as cheap as 15k even if, IF, it is over priced. Someone made a great point, a superbike costs around 12k, a GT86 3k more and profit!!!??If all these cars are overpriced Ford wouldn't be cutting back... This is where the ecomony of scale comes in. Sales are down, factory is not running at full capacity so it's not working at full efficiency to make a profit or to break even point.
Well I love mine, don't consider it overpriced.
It's plenty fast enough and still can't get my head around how well it handles on its skinny tyres ..
The f
er makes me grin just thinking about driving it... Anyway .. Day off work, coffee consumed and some moist twisties now beckon. 
Ciao!
It's plenty fast enough and still can't get my head around how well it handles on its skinny tyres ..
The f
er makes me grin just thinking about driving it... Anyway .. Day off work, coffee consumed and some moist twisties now beckon. Ciao! nickfrog said:
I can't agree. At least based on people having specced the car on babybmw.net, people have been going easy on useless/worthless options.
Based on the 9% discount, you would struggle to get the car to cost you over £30K as it comes with leather/xenons as std, even with some of those useless/worthless bits on it.
Besides, no one HAS to be buy extras on the M135i, which therefore can be had for £27,300 OTR before paint. And even if a lot of buyers do spend £35k instead, it just means that the cheap car will appear really competitive for the second owner compared to over specced cars.
What's the 9%?Based on the 9% discount, you would struggle to get the car to cost you over £30K as it comes with leather/xenons as std, even with some of those useless/worthless bits on it.
Besides, no one HAS to be buy extras on the M135i, which therefore can be had for £27,300 OTR before paint. And even if a lot of buyers do spend £35k instead, it just means that the cheap car will appear really competitive for the second owner compared to over specced cars.
nickfrog said:
It's the discount offered by BMW dealers on a new M135i.
It's that easy to walk in to any dealer and get 9% off the RRP?It seems to be extraordinarily aggressive pricing by BMW on this car (at least in the UK) - no bad thing for new car buyers!
It just strikes me as a little odd that BMW are forgoing profits on this model, although perhaps it's because sales of all 1-series are slow and they're trying to generate wider interest? braddo said:
It's that easy to walk in to any dealer and get 9% off the RRP?
It seems to be extraordinarily aggressive pricing by BMW on this car (at least in the UK) - no bad thing for new car buyers! It just strikes me as a little odd that BMW are forgoing profits on this model, although perhaps it's because sales of all 1-series are slow and they're trying to generate wider interest?
Maybe not that easy but if you do your research, play them against each other, walk out etc etc you will get 9% off.It seems to be extraordinarily aggressive pricing by BMW on this car (at least in the UK) - no bad thing for new car buyers!
It just strikes me as a little odd that BMW are forgoing profits on this model, although perhaps it's because sales of all 1-series are slow and they're trying to generate wider interest? Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff