Are modern cars just too complicated?
Discussion
I've just checked, I'm not ginger, alcoholic and I don't like leeks so I don't think I qualify Prof Prolapse said:
This thread is quickly devolving into the "I fear change therefore technology is bad" isn't it?
Yes. There seems to be a least one a week, with the same posters bashing out the same rambling rants about how they don't understand something and it is all a conspiracy. 
jbi said:
yup... it's why I bought an old land rover.
A bag of spanners and hammers is all you need to keep it going.
yup, who needs oil, just tip some hammers in. rust? spanner'll fix that.A bag of spanners and hammers is all you need to keep it going.
window seals perished? just remove the windows with a hammer.
clutch worn? don't be silly, clutches never wear on Land Rovers.
Doing 40 up a hill in a NSL zone? Throw all those f***ing spanners out, they're slowing you down!
Edited by scarble on Thursday 8th November 22:27
As someone who has worked through all the technology, I'd say in the most part the normal systems are much better than the old days (petrol injection for example), the issues now come with the EURO emmission regulations (DPFs and common rail diesels for instance) and completely unnecessary systems like electronic handbrakes. If you buy a petrol engined car with just the basics I think new cars are still a good bet.
scarble said:
jbi said:
yup... it's why I bought an old land rover.
A bag of spanners and hammers is all you need to keep it going.
yup, who needs oil, just tip some hammers in. rust? spanner'll fix that.A bag of spanners and hammers is all you need to keep it going.
window seals perished? just remove the windows with a hammer.
clutch worn? don't be silly, clutches never wear on Land Rovers.
Doing 40 up a hill in a NSL zone? Throw all those f***ing spanners out, they're slowing you down!
Edited by scarble on Thursday 8th November 22:27
Fish981 said:
hesnotthemessiah said:
I guess so.....
I once drove my friend's 2CV from London to Sheffield.....the pin which holds the gear leaver in the centre of the dash attached to the gear shifter (?) above the engine block fell out and was lost going up a hill just through Highbury.....I nicked the pin out of the rear glass boot hinge and fixed it. Got all the way home to Sheffield no worries.
Not sure I could do that with a modern car but some people like or have need of a modern car....I don't particularly, so I don't drive them.
I'm not sure the gear lever of a modern car is that prone to falling off.I once drove my friend's 2CV from London to Sheffield.....the pin which holds the gear leaver in the centre of the dash attached to the gear shifter (?) above the engine block fell out and was lost going up a hill just through Highbury.....I nicked the pin out of the rear glass boot hinge and fixed it. Got all the way home to Sheffield no worries.
Not sure I could do that with a modern car but some people like or have need of a modern car....I don't particularly, so I don't drive them.
D_G said:
the issues now come with the EURO emmission regulations (DPFs and common rail diesels for instance) and completely unnecessary systems like electronic handbrakes. If you buy a petrol engined car with just the basics I think new cars are still a good bet.
Nowt wrong with common rail.You know what does bug me though? Auto lights. I want to turn the f***ing lights off, no I don't want side lights! NO LIGHTS!!!111
DMFs have got to be one of the worst new 'features' too.
Seatbelt lights/chimes too. Seriously, I know I'm not wearing my seatbelt, the car isn't even moving, I'm not even in it!
Stability control is really annoying, particularly when you've got a car on a dyno with only one set of wheels on the rollers. Actually it's probably more annoying when it understeers you towards something less flexible than your car. Even the most basic little petrol cars have it and it's never clear when it's on or off or how to turn it off. Some cars you can't even turn it off. I can't remember if they decided it was going to be made mandatory.. probably.
Definitely have been for at least ten years.
Late 90's got the balance about right when you still had a switch, not a module that had to be coded to the car.
Many accept service bills over £1k to be the norm - that's 20 times more than my first car cost and it never had £50 spent on it in the year I owned it (Saab 95).
Late 90's got the balance about right when you still had a switch, not a module that had to be coded to the car.
Many accept service bills over £1k to be the norm - that's 20 times more than my first car cost and it never had £50 spent on it in the year I owned it (Saab 95).
This really is nonsense.
Modern cars are hugely more reliable than their predecessors. See all the threads on PH along the lines, "My car is only 5 years and 60,000 miles old and has dared to go wrong...."
Also, you wonder how TVR got itself a "reputation" with very little modernity in its cars at all.
Modern cars are hugely more reliable than their predecessors. See all the threads on PH along the lines, "My car is only 5 years and 60,000 miles old and has dared to go wrong...."
Also, you wonder how TVR got itself a "reputation" with very little modernity in its cars at all.
Ozzie Osmond said:
This really is nonsense.
Modern cars are hugely more reliable than their predecessors. See all the threads on PH along the lines, "My car is only 5 years and 60,000 miles old and has dared to go wrong...."
Also, you wonder how TVR got itself a "reputation" with very little modernity in its cars at all.
Have you got some statistics to back that up ? Year 2000 and 2010 cars pleaseModern cars are hugely more reliable than their predecessors. See all the threads on PH along the lines, "My car is only 5 years and 60,000 miles old and has dared to go wrong...."
Also, you wonder how TVR got itself a "reputation" with very little modernity in its cars at all.
I'd love to see ones comparing repair costs too.
TVRs were just poorly built I've owned enough to know !
Devil2575 said:
Wacky Racer said:
...I suspect in the real world a journey from say Newcastle to Cornwall would be accomplished in the same time, or maybe just a bit slower in the Cortina than the latest £30,000 offering from BMW or Jaguar.
Yes but you'd use twice as much fuel, it would be a lot less refined and you'd get bored of the radio. Parking with the unassisted steering would be a ball ache, it would break down at least once and if you had a crash you'd probably die. But appart from that...I think they've taken a step back in reliability lately, but most of that is down to lead free solder (in my opinion), and this will be gradually overcome.
Apart from that, and all the diesel s
te and fwd that is about now, if you choose carefully, you can have a lot of car, that is very reliable, very very reliable compared to the 70's and 80's, and for now at least, have a super smooth large engine, doing fantastic mpg.
I remember my MGB giving me 22 mpg, I now have a 2.8, with three times (ish) the power, giving me 40 (ish) mpg, and I almost never need to touch it.
I don't like a lot of new toys, electronic handbrakes being may latest dislike, so, for now at least, I don't have them.
Apart from that, and all the diesel s
te and fwd that is about now, if you choose carefully, you can have a lot of car, that is very reliable, very very reliable compared to the 70's and 80's, and for now at least, have a super smooth large engine, doing fantastic mpg.I remember my MGB giving me 22 mpg, I now have a 2.8, with three times (ish) the power, giving me 40 (ish) mpg, and I almost never need to touch it.
I don't like a lot of new toys, electronic handbrakes being may latest dislike, so, for now at least, I don't have them.
Yes and no.
On the one hand they're much more difficult to tinker with. On the other hand modern cars don't break down nearly so much in the first place.
I never had a Cortina but my mid-late 80s Fiat Panda was pretty simple, it was also absolute rubbish. You had to keep adjusting the timing, fiddling around with the carburetor, adjusting the choke and changing the spark plugs because it was always cutting out and breaking down. You're right that the time on a long journey is not really significantly shorter in a modern car, because it's governed by traffic and road conditions. It's hard to average over 60mph for a sustained period no matter how much power you have. But it was horrible to drive compared with a modern car, and with a 4 speed gear box and the aerodynamics of a phone box it was less economical than my late 90s 2.0 Vectra.
On the one hand they're much more difficult to tinker with. On the other hand modern cars don't break down nearly so much in the first place.
I never had a Cortina but my mid-late 80s Fiat Panda was pretty simple, it was also absolute rubbish. You had to keep adjusting the timing, fiddling around with the carburetor, adjusting the choke and changing the spark plugs because it was always cutting out and breaking down. You're right that the time on a long journey is not really significantly shorter in a modern car, because it's governed by traffic and road conditions. It's hard to average over 60mph for a sustained period no matter how much power you have. But it was horrible to drive compared with a modern car, and with a 4 speed gear box and the aerodynamics of a phone box it was less economical than my late 90s 2.0 Vectra.
>Are modern cars just too complicated?
They are not too complicated to use.
They are too complicated to repair cheaply, especially when the electronics goes wrong.
This may partly be due to electronic components having a short life-cycle, being tied to the generation of fab that produced them. Later fabs simply can't make earlier chips. Mechanical parts can be copied/reproduced indefinitely.
I have three cars from 1994-2001, two of which were bought new. I will avoid buying a more modern car as long as possible.
They are not too complicated to use.
They are too complicated to repair cheaply, especially when the electronics goes wrong.
This may partly be due to electronic components having a short life-cycle, being tied to the generation of fab that produced them. Later fabs simply can't make earlier chips. Mechanical parts can be copied/reproduced indefinitely.
I have three cars from 1994-2001, two of which were bought new. I will avoid buying a more modern car as long as possible.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff