Will Chris Harris end up on TV?
Discussion
I'll echo the comments on DR - the feature Harris did on the GT-R versus GT2 at the Nurburgring, with side-by-side on-board cams and corner-by-corner commentary, will always stick in my mind as a truly pioneering example of what can be done with digital formats.
Unfortunately, I'll also echo the comments about how commercially difficult it is to sustain high-quality digital content. Even the massive media empires with established brands and armies of talent haven't figured it out, so a pure-play like DR in 2009 was never going to last.
I personally think what's happening right now is already optimal - Harris op-eds on PH and his YT videos, obviously not as rich as the DR content but reaching a wider audience at a fraction of what DR must have cost.
Unfortunately, I'll also echo the comments about how commercially difficult it is to sustain high-quality digital content. Even the massive media empires with established brands and armies of talent haven't figured it out, so a pure-play like DR in 2009 was never going to last.
I personally think what's happening right now is already optimal - Harris op-eds on PH and his YT videos, obviously not as rich as the DR content but reaching a wider audience at a fraction of what DR must have cost.
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Interesting point Simon & I dont pretend to know how the advertising side works. But as I understand it web advertising bases itself on how long a page is open for on a computer screen? They may not even target traditional car mag advertisers, just your usual cookie tracking web adverts such as you see on pistonheads.
Simple model would be to have a ad free subscriber service or a free heavily advertised normal service.
(I'm making this up as I go along obviously, I don't know the ins & outs of web based businesses)
That model only works when you have the traffic of a PH, which very few sites do. Rates for display advertising on the web are so low (and dropping) that unless you have massive volume, there's very little money to be made. I'd hazard a guess that PH's strategy for years to come will still be based on its classifieds rather than on display.Simple model would be to have a ad free subscriber service or a free heavily advertised normal service.
(I'm making this up as I go along obviously, I don't know the ins & outs of web based businesses)
Not to mention that it's very difficult to integrate online display ads in a way that doesn't impact the reader experience.
The last thing I would want to see is Mr H on Top Gear.
Top Gear was great in the 90's where it was actually a motoring show for motorists. The recent shows are nothing more than an entertainment show for the non-petrol head and are quite frankly ridiculous. It's current format is waaaaaay past its sell by date and I genuinely believe there is a big gap in the market for a genuine 'serious' car program that appeals to us petrolheads. This is the sort of program Mr H would be great at.
However with current TV these days I doubt it would get past senior TV executives as dumbing down for the great unwashed seems to be the only drivel they give the go ahead for
To that end i'm just glad the interweb is about so I can get my serious televised car reviews from people like Mr H and others on the small screen (even if they always seem to be too short timewise)
Top Gear was great in the 90's where it was actually a motoring show for motorists. The recent shows are nothing more than an entertainment show for the non-petrol head and are quite frankly ridiculous. It's current format is waaaaaay past its sell by date and I genuinely believe there is a big gap in the market for a genuine 'serious' car program that appeals to us petrolheads. This is the sort of program Mr H would be great at.
However with current TV these days I doubt it would get past senior TV executives as dumbing down for the great unwashed seems to be the only drivel they give the go ahead for
To that end i'm just glad the interweb is about so I can get my serious televised car reviews from people like Mr H and others on the small screen (even if they always seem to be too short timewise)
Edited by NotNormal on Friday 9th November 11:39
There's a reason why mainstream TV channels dont have people like Chris on them. They need to be mainstream! Chris Harris is far too niche for the likes of everyday TV viewing plebs!
On mainstream TV you cant have a show about building choppers without a few redneck hillbillys throwing geeetars at each other. You cant have a show about restoring classic cars without some cheeky chappy geezer rubbing his ands togever and sayin' 'we've made a tidy profit on this one' and you cant show a car on track without going constantly sideways billowing loads of tyre smoke and not talking about the cars handling, braking etc etc.
Chris is better off sticking to outlets that are broadcast directly to his target audience.
On mainstream TV you cant have a show about building choppers without a few redneck hillbillys throwing geeetars at each other. You cant have a show about restoring classic cars without some cheeky chappy geezer rubbing his ands togever and sayin' 'we've made a tidy profit on this one' and you cant show a car on track without going constantly sideways billowing loads of tyre smoke and not talking about the cars handling, braking etc etc.
Chris is better off sticking to outlets that are broadcast directly to his target audience.
Already watch a lot of internet videos on the telly box (TiVo).
Drive is a favourite and there are a lot of others in the "automotive" section but it's quite hard to find specific ones when you're in each section. If that was improved a bit then i see this as the future, right here, right now.
Drive is a favourite and there are a lot of others in the "automotive" section but it's quite hard to find specific ones when you're in each section. If that was improved a bit then i see this as the future, right here, right now.
stuart-b said:
Funny isn't it that we still define TV as being successful.
Surely, 100 million Youtube hits is more successful than being on ITV at 9pm?
Media is changing, and I'd rather Chris stays where he is, and keeps it independent and interesting.
Whole-heartedly agree, having watched him since he was doing Autocar videos. Surely, 100 million Youtube hits is more successful than being on ITV at 9pm?
Media is changing, and I'd rather Chris stays where he is, and keeps it independent and interesting.
Top Gear's massively successful - doesn't need to change.
Telly doesn't need me, and I don't want to be on the telly - unless it's in a capacity where I can just cock about in cars the way I like to. And, as people rightly point out, that doesn't appeal to an especially big audience -although some of the DRIVE vids are doing some interesting numbers.
Web videos do me fine. Know your place and all that.
As for DR - we got some things right. But we got more things wrong. The 2008 crash didn't help, but it was probably doomed anyway. Still, I don't regret having a go. Selling the green 911 to fund it does still smart though.
Telly doesn't need me, and I don't want to be on the telly - unless it's in a capacity where I can just cock about in cars the way I like to. And, as people rightly point out, that doesn't appeal to an especially big audience -although some of the DRIVE vids are doing some interesting numbers.
Web videos do me fine. Know your place and all that.
As for DR - we got some things right. But we got more things wrong. The 2008 crash didn't help, but it was probably doomed anyway. Still, I don't regret having a go. Selling the green 911 to fund it does still smart though.
I already treat Chris Harris' Drive videos and a few other Youtube channels as TV, I've got the subscriptions on the Apple TV and its sorted. I keep an eye on a few others too.
CH videos are fine where they are, there was a video on Drive a while ago of him meeting up with Alex Roy (another Drive-ist) and they mentioned TG, it's a different style to what Harris does and he's fine with that.
CH videos are fine where they are, there was a video on Drive a while ago of him meeting up with Alex Roy (another Drive-ist) and they mentioned TG, it's a different style to what Harris does and he's fine with that.
Currently the /Drive Youtube channel is being underwritten by YouTube themselves as part of their unique content programme (I've believe the other 2 motoring channels in the scheme are Car&Driver and MotorTrend) so they aren't dependent on advertising income to cover their costs.
As has been said above, what counts as 'tv' these days anyway? I watch YouTube on my television set via my Blu-Ray player. Once the millions of Sky+ boxes in this country get more 'on demand' services (which they are already advertising I see) then traditional live broadcasts will start becoming a thing of the past. (It will also allow broadcasters to force us to watch the ads rather than fast forward them).
As has been said above, what counts as 'tv' these days anyway? I watch YouTube on my television set via my Blu-Ray player. Once the millions of Sky+ boxes in this country get more 'on demand' services (which they are already advertising I see) then traditional live broadcasts will start becoming a thing of the past. (It will also allow broadcasters to force us to watch the ads rather than fast forward them).
juansolo said:
I actually think the likes of Drive are the future and TV will play less and less of a role in what we watch. I already watch far more content on the computer than I do on the TV (which is reserved for watching films these days). Any TV I do watch I tend to do on iPlayer or the like.
Likewise, although I've got an AppleTV which works great for this stuff on the big screen. What is interesting though is that a lot of this glut of quality online content (including Drive) is getting funding from YouTube itself. Lots of people are positioning themselves for a broadcast-free future - plenty of sports are gearing up for a direct-subscriber model where you pay them directly for online access.What online is great for is niche content. For cars, the stuff that would get dropped or end up in a 2 min segment on 5th Gear can be given the time to do it properly. 15 mins on some owner's muscle car? Or a motorcycle trip into the mountains? Sure, go ahead.
GraemeP said:
I would happily pay a monthly subscription for a glossy e-zine with a well polished finish, that gives me Evo style articles with embedded high definition video as part of each piece.
That's already sort of possible.Pixelmags ready offer an electronic copy of a lot of magazines, which, in some cases have imbedded videos, hyperlinks and are of course, fully zoomable so you can view things in more detail if you are a geek.
Obviously Perfromance VW doesn't offer Evo type articles but the basics are there.
On a lesser scale, PPC magazine and possibly others are using QR code in articles to link to their YouTube channel, which is again, not quite the same, but integrates 2 types of media for a more involving read.
I don't buy PVW in print anymore, if I want to read it, I buy it for the iPad, as its just better!
Some of the Drive stuff is pretty good. I love the CH vids, especially the adventures in older cars, where you seem to get much more emotionally involved with them. The Lancia rally cars and AMG thunder stick in my head, as well as the UR quattro/RS200 video.
Some of the Drive stuff is a bit US heavy, but I find it quite educational and its nice to see something different, especially when I saw them say the '55 Ford T Bird was 'small'!
Need more CH on Road Testament, less Leo Parante and please, please, can we have a Drive Podcast? Somethign similar to spill.com?
Some of the Drive stuff is a bit US heavy, but I find it quite educational and its nice to see something different, especially when I saw them say the '55 Ford T Bird was 'small'!
Need more CH on Road Testament, less Leo Parante and please, please, can we have a Drive Podcast? Somethign similar to spill.com?
Chris Harris said:
As for DR - we got some things right. But we got more things wrong. The 2008 crash didn't help, but it was probably doomed anyway. Still, I don't regret having a go. Selling the green 911 to fund it does still smart though.
I bet it does. Do you think it could work nowadays though, what with the lessons learned & the base web traffic of pistonheads behind it? Or perhaps a better way of putting things would be, could it be the future of pistonheads to go in that direction?
Some interesting comments re the way we consume 'TV' now.
On the subject of Mr Harris, I'm a huge fan boy of his vids (well, the ones Neil Carey shoots rather than Monkey doing them himself
), I get more of a 'car fix' from his 5-10 min Drive/Evo/DR/Autocar vids than many series full of TG because its aimed at a different level.
Regarding TG, TV and on demand. Like many who have posted, what was once a PC only viewing experience is now on many more formats and the lines for me are utterly blured. I sometimes watch the Drive vids on my TV through the AppleTV, sometimes on my phone, sometimes on an iPad, this is the way I consume 'tv' now also. I find the idea of watching a show when its on an odd concept now, I will, if I happen to be in the right place at the right time, but generally I let the tech do the work and I'll watch it when I damn please. Maybe thats at lunctime or 4am on a Friday night.
What I'm trying to say is that I don't see a need for Chris to move to 'TV' (not that he needs my advice). Although I guess if the pay check was big enough...
On the subject of Mr Harris, I'm a huge fan boy of his vids (well, the ones Neil Carey shoots rather than Monkey doing them himself
), I get more of a 'car fix' from his 5-10 min Drive/Evo/DR/Autocar vids than many series full of TG because its aimed at a different level.Regarding TG, TV and on demand. Like many who have posted, what was once a PC only viewing experience is now on many more formats and the lines for me are utterly blured. I sometimes watch the Drive vids on my TV through the AppleTV, sometimes on my phone, sometimes on an iPad, this is the way I consume 'tv' now also. I find the idea of watching a show when its on an odd concept now, I will, if I happen to be in the right place at the right time, but generally I let the tech do the work and I'll watch it when I damn please. Maybe thats at lunctime or 4am on a Friday night.
What I'm trying to say is that I don't see a need for Chris to move to 'TV' (not that he needs my advice
). Although I guess if the pay check was big enough... Edited by AndyWoodall on Friday 9th November 13:43
Edited by AndyWoodall on Friday 9th November 13:44
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff