RE: Spotted: Talbot Sunbeam Lotus
Discussion
chunder said:
aeropilot said:
NGK210 said:
Four cylinders, 2170cc and 152bhp - and 19mpg. 
150hp was an 'insurance' hp figure, almost all of them were higher than that.Tuned for max power on a fully rebuilt engine with stage 2 heads mine was 138 from memory, finally losing 5bhp odd to get better driveability.
160 at the wheels would be low for a works engine from the conversations I had with Des and other ex-PTS rally staff.
The 'works' rally engines (all built by Phil Davidson) were between 220 and 240ish at the flywheel. Last of the line final spec may have been 245 from memory (and these were dyno'd in engine test cells)
The official submitted figure from Lotus for the road car engines was 166hp, but being Lotus these did vary enormously, and back in 1979, insurance was an issue, so Chrysler(Talbot) averaged the output at 150hp.
Some of the last cars were rumoured to have had various spec engines up to Lotus SE levels, and back in 1989, my untouched original 27k miles from new SL, showed 160hp at the wheels on Pete Baldwin's RR on the same day as my friends Escort Twin Cam showed 148. His engine was a 1700 all steel, big valve, high lift cam engine and was built as a 170hp road engine...so I guessed mine might have been one of these 'odd' spec engines as my car was the 15th from last built.
I witnessed plenty of Lotus Service Centre built engines on their engine test dyno's showing in excess of 200hp... and these were for road cars.
If you only got 138 at the wheels from a tuned engine you were done
I built an iron liner 911 earlier this year, the spec from the bottom up was a trapdoored sump, Lightened and balanced bottom end, works flywheel and clutch from Ravic, Esprit turbo rods, Mahle pistons, ported head, L14 cams on Verniers and (small) Big Valves all fed through 45's - lots of other detail bits too but on the rollers and only revving to 6.5k it gave us a healthy 209.2 bhp and 180lb/ft.
With respect Bob, that's nonsense. Road cars were good for at least 150 at the flywheel from the factory. Series 2 cars are quoted with slightly higher figures and the very early cars were certainly more powerful than the figures released.
Works cars had a genuine 240bhp, and were on a par with the contemporary Escorts that were supposed to be 270; they were tested on the same dynos in period.
You only have to look at performance figures (again, real tested figures) to see how the power/torque and weight created an astonishingly quick car for the time.
Some dynos will give different readings, though - I have had my car on one whose figures for a range of cars on the same day were well below what was expected. That was just the nature of that particular machine rather than the cars.
Works cars had a genuine 240bhp, and were on a par with the contemporary Escorts that were supposed to be 270; they were tested on the same dynos in period.
You only have to look at performance figures (again, real tested figures) to see how the power/torque and weight created an astonishingly quick car for the time.
Some dynos will give different readings, though - I have had my car on one whose figures for a range of cars on the same day were well below what was expected. That was just the nature of that particular machine rather than the cars.
Loved my Sunbeam, and still aspire to the heights of Lotus-variant ownership. It started life in 1979 as an humble 1.0 and ended - all too abruptly - with an Avenger 1600 in it, initially on twin Strombergs, then on the Webers & manifold from a ti. The best thing about its ultimate incarnation was that it retained the gearbox from the 1.0: it would only do about 70 flat out, by gum it got there quickly!
Had one of these in the mid '90's. With a Skip Brown roadspeed conversion ( ported head,uprated cams and exhaust) I had a rolling road sheet that said 183 bhp @ wheels. It was quick and LOUD - 108db at a castle combe trackday. I took our apprentice out in it, he asked 'will it wheelspin?. So I proved it in the first three gears! Ok it was a damp road.Would keep up with a then current Porsche 911 up to 100 ish. 911 owner not happy... With bilstien suspension, poly bushing and vented discs it even had reasonable handling. Loved the dog leg gearbox also.
My current toy is a mk1 escort with a yb cosworth, but honestly, I prefered the Sunbeam. Sold,as 19 mpg was expensive even in those days.
My current toy is a mk1 escort with a yb cosworth, but honestly, I prefered the Sunbeam. Sold,as 19 mpg was expensive even in those days.
mine has recently made a healthy 150bhp at about 5800rpm and nearly 150ft/lb and its completely stock cams, engine and carbs, the only performance mod as such is an ashley 4 branch manifold and stainless (not too loud) exhaust.
most of the comments i get are from people who either had one back in the day, or wanted one, or put one into a ditch sideways lol!
most of the comments i get are from people who either had one back in the day, or wanted one, or put one into a ditch sideways lol!
Cheib said:
Very nice ! Maybe it's the four massive fog/driving lights that make people notice it 
ive had people following me flash their lights and give it a big thumbs up lol! they are so rare on the roads nowadays i think thats what causes people to take a look. £150 insurance as well is a bonus :-)
sideways man said:
Had one of these in the mid '90's. With a Skip Brown roadspeed conversion ( ported head,uprated cams and exhaust) I had a rolling road sheet that said 183 bhp @ wheels. It was quick and LOUD - 108db at a castle combe trackday. I took our apprentice out in it, he asked 'will it wheelspin?. So I proved it in the first three gears! Ok it was a damp road.Would keep up with a then current Porsche 911 up to 100 ish. 911 owner not happy... With bilstien suspension, poly bushing and vented discs it even had reasonable handling. Loved the dog leg gearbox also.
My current toy is a mk1 escort with a yb cosworth, but honestly, I prefered the Sunbeam. Sold,as 19 mpg was expensive even in those days.
Passed his old showroom the other day...Long Gone??My current toy is a mk1 escort with a yb cosworth, but honestly, I prefered the Sunbeam. Sold,as 19 mpg was expensive even in those days.
For what its worth. I also think that the old Lotus is a lot more desirable today than a contemporary Escort. They were known also as being very stable flat jumpers over the rough stuff..A lot of clubmen in their day also used to escortize them for rallying..i believe Atlas axles, Bilstein ford struts were all pretty much interchangeable
, If not easy to fit with a small amount of modification!!
Brilliant and very underrated car when In reality the Horizon and Alpine of the day killed any image Talbots had !!
N.
Edited by heightswitch on Thursday 15th November 05:26
Years ago i saw one of these in pretty good nick going for £3.5k and was torn between that and a 16v Integrale at £11k and a Renault 5 Turbo (not GT Turbo, the RWD mid engined one) at £9.5k.
I made the mistake of buying the Lancia, which whilst very capable was also a piece of junk and broke down alot.
Sometimes wish i'd bought the Talbot
I made the mistake of buying the Lancia, which whilst very capable was also a piece of junk and broke down alot.
Sometimes wish i'd bought the Talbot
agedpete said:
Does anyone know what happened to DAC 91Y. I bought it new and had a lot of enjoyment with it (and not a little frustration when trying to start it) As I recall it went sideways for fun.
Did you still own it in 1988, as that's when I took this photo of it at a Club Lotus do at North Weald airfield 
(my old car, 71Y is on the far left)
agedpete said:
I think that I sold it in late 84. To a guy from Harrogate if I recall. According to DVLA website it hasnt been taxed since 1990, so I suppose it is an ex - DAC by now...
It certainley wasn't owned by someone from up north when I took that photo, pretty sure it was someone local to Essex/Herts at the time, (certainley south east of UK) but it was 25 years ago, and my memory isn't what it was 
So, maybe only lived another couple of years after that photo was taken then....?
DAC89Y
I purchased DAC89Y from Paul Matty Sportscars in Bromsgrove and would have been circa 89/90 from memory and I can confirm it was taxed and road used for a number of years. As she was getting tired and I had managed to find some original unused new wings I took the car off the road which would have been circa 95/ 96.
With birth of my daughter and buying a house etc it took some time to do the restoration work and was eventually sold with all but a few parts to complete required (trim parts I wanted to replace) circa 98 to a guy who was looking to use it for track and fun.... which seemed a shame but, needed the money for the house.
Have no idea where it is now but would be interested as had it for the best part of 8 years....often wondered if I could ever get it back.
I purchased DAC89Y from Paul Matty Sportscars in Bromsgrove and would have been circa 89/90 from memory and I can confirm it was taxed and road used for a number of years. As she was getting tired and I had managed to find some original unused new wings I took the car off the road which would have been circa 95/ 96.
With birth of my daughter and buying a house etc it took some time to do the restoration work and was eventually sold with all but a few parts to complete required (trim parts I wanted to replace) circa 98 to a guy who was looking to use it for track and fun.... which seemed a shame but, needed the money for the house.
Have no idea where it is now but would be interested as had it for the best part of 8 years....often wondered if I could ever get it back.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff