RE: Driven: Toyota GT86 JRM Racing/Sumo Power

[Dave Hedgehog]

prepare to be blown away at the lights by my OH in her polo lol

[Captain Muppet]

FWDRacer said:

The Toyoburu has sufferd at the hands of it's own hype. What has been delivered is decidely limp wristed so far.

Yes, because the very best bit of a 205 GTi is that they make significantly over 200bhp. Not the chassis, not the handling, not the feedback, it's the power that makes a 205 special

[IAJO]

Yeah i remember the hype, toyota were going to deliver a lightweight sportscar designed from the ground up that focused on fun and not figures. For some they decided this would mean a 300bhp car weighing 600kg and costing 15k.

Back in the real world toyota delivered, slightly higher price point than hoped but development costs have to be covered. Now the aftermarket has a new darling on which to build, fettle and fine tune all manner of goodies. I've never bought into this anti modding feeling as an aftermarket tuner can make the car exactly as the individual wants it and they are some of the finest engineers and innovators.

The car is irrelevant, i havent driven it and can't afford to buy one but i am a fan of the ethos. In five/ten years when petrol is £3 a litre frugal fun will be where its at not 1500kg 400bhp hatchbacks returning 15mpg. I think they should add a 1.6t to the range to be a genuine contender against vw MINI etc... even though i'd rather na.

[otolith]

Captain Muppet said:

Yes, because the very best bit of a 205 GTi is that they make significantly over 200bhp. Not the chassis, not the handling, not the feedback, it's the power that makes a 205 special

And everybody agrees that the 1.9 version is better.

[EDLT]

Mastodon2 said:

Did a PH article just refer to a car as "right wheel drive"? This is a new low for PH journalism.

I stopped reading there, that and the crap at the start about tuned cars not being "PH-worthy" is just pathetic.

[RemarkLima]

Captain Muppet said:

RemarkLima said:

Now, let me say it... It needs more power!

Well, with AP's, Toyo R888's, uber suspension etc. it does 100% need more power, otherwise you'll have more grip than you could ever use.

So yeah, needs more power

Until you can corner with high enough G's to make the driver black out you don't have "more grip than you can use". You can have "more grip than you can overcome in a straight line just using the throttle" but you certianly won't have so much grip that you lose all throttle adjustability, it's just you'll have to be cornering much harder before you get to use the throttle adjustability, and holding massive lair slides will be harder.

If this is about lap times rather than drifting then sticky tyres seem like a simple bolt on solution.

OK, let me put it this way - With sticky tyres, suddenly the package becomes a whole lot less fun, as you lose the power to grip ratio.

As you say, to deliver a quick laptime it's an easy solution... But then what's the point of the 6 pot brembo's? Are the standard brakes, with a race fluid and race pads not up to the job of stopping the car lap after lap?

Personally, I feel all the upgrades should come in tandem, power, handling, grip, braking are all part of the same equation, so in this instance they've basically made 1 + 1 = 2.5 IMHO

P.S. FWD is pants *tounge in cheek*

[Dave Hedgehog]

Captain Muppet said:

FWDRacer said:

The Toyoburu has sufferd at the hands of it's own hype. What has been delivered is decidely limp wristed so far.

Yes, because the very best bit of a 205 GTi is that they make significantly over 200bhp. Not the chassis, not the handling, not the feedback, it's the power that makes a 205 special

games moved on, the avg rep diesel can run 7s 60s now

[Captain Muppet]

RemarkLima said:

Captain Muppet said:

RemarkLima said:

Now, let me say it... It needs more power!

Well, with AP's, Toyo R888's, uber suspension etc. it does 100% need more power, otherwise you'll have more grip than you could ever use.

So yeah, needs more power

Until you can corner with high enough G's to make the driver black out you don't have "more grip than you can use". You can have "more grip than you can overcome in a straight line just using the throttle" but you certianly won't have so much grip that you lose all throttle adjustability, it's just you'll have to be cornering much harder before you get to use the throttle adjustability, and holding massive lair slides will be harder.

If this is about lap times rather than drifting then sticky tyres seem like a simple bolt on solution.

OK, let me put it this way - With sticky tyres, suddenly the package becomes a whole lot less fun, as you lose the power to grip ratio.

As you say, to deliver a quick laptime it's an easy solution... But then what's the point of the 6 pot brembo's? Are the standard brakes, with a race fluid and race pads not up to the job of stopping the car lap after lap?

Personally, I feel all the upgrades should come in tandem, power, handling, grip, braking are all part of the same equation, so in this instance they've basically made 1 + 1 = 2.5 IMHO

P.S. FWD is pants *tounge in cheek*

I agree that less grip is more fun. I imagine a GT86 on Linglong snow tyres would be hilarious on track. However I suspect I'm in a minority.

[RemarkLima]

Captain Muppet said:

RemarkLima said:

Captain Muppet said:

RemarkLima said:

Now, let me say it... It needs more power!

Well, with AP's, Toyo R888's, uber suspension etc. it does 100% need more power, otherwise you'll have more grip than you could ever use.

So yeah, needs more power

Until you can corner with high enough G's to make the driver black out you don't have "more grip than you can use". You can have "more grip than you can overcome in a straight line just using the throttle" but you certianly won't have so much grip that you lose all throttle adjustability, it's just you'll have to be cornering much harder before you get to use the throttle adjustability, and holding massive lair slides will be harder.

If this is about lap times rather than drifting then sticky tyres seem like a simple bolt on solution.

OK, let me put it this way - With sticky tyres, suddenly the package becomes a whole lot less fun, as you lose the power to grip ratio.

As you say, to deliver a quick laptime it's an easy solution... But then what's the point of the 6 pot brembo's? Are the standard brakes, with a race fluid and race pads not up to the job of stopping the car lap after lap?

Personally, I feel all the upgrades should come in tandem, power, handling, grip, braking are all part of the same equation, so in this instance they've basically made 1 + 1 = 2.5 IMHO

P.S. FWD is pants *tounge in cheek*

I agree that less grip is more fun. I imagine a GT86 on Linglong snow tyres would be hilarious on track. However I suspect I'm in a minority.

I would be great fun! And on the road too - but then being a powerfully built IT director, captain of industry, wearing a tricorn, I couldn't handle the humiliation of being over taken on a dual carriageway - life's not about fun, it's about oppression and conquest right?

But then the track is a funny thing - My old Z3M was too fast to be enjoyed on the road (despite the somewhat primitive handling) and just far too slow on the track...

[otolith]

Dave Hedgehog said:

games moved on, the avg rep diesel can run 7s 60s now

It can't really. A4 2.0TDI is 9.7, Mondeo 2.0 TDCI is 10.0, Accord 2.2 i-DTEC is 9.5, Exeo 2.0TDI is 9.7, Insignia 2.0CDTI is 9.1, Passat 2.0 TDi is 10.3, Volvo S60D3 is 9.4, etc.

Some of the higher powered variants drop into the 7s (181bhp 320D 7.7 for example) but your average diesel repmobile is a ten second car.

[Captain Muppet]

Dave Hedgehog said:

Captain Muppet said:

FWDRacer said:

The Toyoburu has sufferd at the hands of it's own hype. What has been delivered is decidely limp wristed so far.

Yes, because the very best bit of a 205 GTi is that they make significantly over 200bhp. Not the chassis, not the handling, not the feedback, it's the power that makes a 205 special

games moved on, the avg rep diesel can run 7s 60s now

If 7 seconds is the numerical figure for acceptable performance, what is the numerical figure for acceptable fun? I can't even think of an accurate way to measure fun.

Cars aren't for beating other people, they're for driving.

Maybe you're right, maybe the ability to burn people off at the lights is the thing that matters. Maybe how it feels to drive is unimportant compared to how good a card it is in Top Trumps.

[ADM06]

otolith said:

It can't really. A4 2.0TDI is 9.7, Mondeo 2.0 TDCI is 10.0, Accord 2.2 i-DTEC is 9.5, Exeo 2.0TDI is 9.7, Insignia 2.0CDTI is 9.1, Passat 2.0 TDi is 10.3, Volvo S60D3 is 9.4, etc.

Some of the higher powered variants drop into the 7s (181bhp 320D 7.7 for example) but your average diesel repmobile is a ten second car.

I'm suspicious of that 7.7 to 60. Seems a bit off, I would expect mid 6s for a car that weighs more than this. :

[otolith]

ADM06 said:

otolith said:

It can't really. A4 2.0TDI is 9.7, Mondeo 2.0 TDCI is 10.0, Accord 2.2 i-DTEC is 9.5, Exeo 2.0TDI is 9.7, Insignia 2.0CDTI is 9.1, Passat 2.0 TDi is 10.3, Volvo S60D3 is 9.4, etc.

Some of the higher powered variants drop into the 7s (181bhp 320D 7.7 for example) but your average diesel repmobile is a ten second car.

I'm suspicious of that 7.7 to 60. Seems a bit off, I would expect mid 6s for a car that weighs more than this. :

From AutoCar. BMW 320d Sport, 60 in 7.7s, 100 in 20.9s from 181bhp and 1535kg.

[Ryvita]

I pass a copper coloured GT86 some mornings commuting in the Woking area. It does look good but just not quite "right" to my eyes (brought up on the cleaner lines of '90s supra and celica when it comes to Toyota sports cars). I do like that revised rear wing shown here though, so perhaps it is just a case of getting the right bodykit on it?

[ADM06]

otolith said:

From AutoCar. BMW 320d Sport, 60 in 7.7s, 100 in 20.9s from 181bhp and 1535kg.

No not the BMWs one, to me that seems about right. It's the AE86 I'd expect to be faster.

[Dave Hedgehog]

Captain Muppet said:

If 7 seconds is the numerical figure for acceptable performance, what is the numerical figure for acceptable fun? I can't even think of an accurate way to measure fun.

Cars aren't for beating other people, they're for driving.

Maybe you're right, maybe the ability to burn people off at the lights is the thing that matters. Maybe how it feels to drive is unimportant compared to how good a card it is in Top Trumps.

agreed and 7s can never be fun

this is fun, everytime you touch the loud pedal you wet yourself with laughter, this is what i want

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bG8GDQpvIQI

[Jakdaw]

What a misleading 'advertorial'. Are you suggesting that they'll be charging 3000-4000 GBP for:

* Roll cage
* Plexiglass windows
* Carbon doors
* Flocked dash
* AP Racing air jacks
* Sparco race steering wheel
* Sparco carbon Kevlar race seat and harnesses
* Custom gear lever
* AP Racing disks & calipers
* KW Coilover kit
* 18 inch rims
* Toyo R888 tyres
* HKS Pnael air filter
* HKS hard air intake pipe
* HKS down pipe (this a decat? will the pass MOT after this?)
* Damd rear exhaust


... riiiight.

[StottyZr]

ADM06 said:

I'm suspicious of that 7.7 to 60. Seems a bit off, I would expect mid 6s for a car that weighs more than this. :

I agree, although the torque comes in extremely high, 6600rpm it makes peak torque so when you change from 1st to second at ~40mph the car will be at around 4800rpm and producing ~125hp until it works it way back up to 7000rpm and 197hp. This could help to explain the lack of pace.

Even so, I would definately expect below 7secs for the weight and Hp! especially as only one gear change is required to hit 60.

Has anybody officially tested this car yet? if so, any links?

Edited by StottyZr on Friday 23 November 11:26

[robinandcamera]

Jakdaw said:

What a misleading 'advertorial'. Are you suggesting that they'll be charging 3000-4000 GBP for:

* Roll cage
* Plexiglass windows
* Carbon doors
* Flocked dash
* AP Racing air jacks
* Sparco race steering wheel
* Sparco carbon Kevlar race seat and harnesses
* Custom gear lever
* AP Racing disks & calipers
* KW Coilover kit
* 18 inch rims
* Toyo R888 tyres
* HKS Pnael air filter
* HKS hard air intake pipe
* HKS down pipe (this a decat? will the pass MOT after this?)
* Damd rear exhaust


... riiiight.

Yep, more like 12-13 for that at least. Air jacks I understand as its just their development car.

Like I said before, the brakes alone will cost a minimum of 4k surely.

[FWDRacer]

Captain Muppet said:

Yes, because the very best bit of a 205 GTi is that they make significantly over 200bhp. Not the chassis, not the handling, not the feedback, it's the power that makes a 205 special

This thread is about a modified road car for usage on the track. Apples with apples sunshine