RE: Clocking loophole closing
Discussion
Devil2575 said:
Pistonwot said:
That is absurd!
Such know it alls are the liability here rather than the services offered by these firms.
Only children and idiots need protecting in this fashion, the rest of us are adults and accept responsibility for ourselves and seek professional advice when we are unsure.
IF you cannot recognise when a car and its shown mileage is erring towards 'very questionable' then DONT BUY CARS,
pay for professional help from someone who knows better.
If you dont seek the proper advice then you are actively seeking this problem, inviting it to come and ruin your day.
It is not someone elses fault that you dont know what you are doing.
What you are saying is that if everyone is not as into cars as the people on here then fSuch know it alls are the liability here rather than the services offered by these firms.
Only children and idiots need protecting in this fashion, the rest of us are adults and accept responsibility for ourselves and seek professional advice when we are unsure.
IF you cannot recognise when a car and its shown mileage is erring towards 'very questionable' then DONT BUY CARS,
pay for professional help from someone who knows better.
If you dont seek the proper advice then you are actively seeking this problem, inviting it to come and ruin your day.
It is not someone elses fault that you dont know what you are doing.
k them. It may supprise you to know that 99% of the vcar buying public are not as into cars as you.Also it's not that easy to spot a clocked car, especially if it's not been done to excess and it's been done just before the annual service/MOT. Interiors on some cars wear very well these days and can still look fresh after 100k. By the same token a lard arse driver can kill a seat in 30k and make it look like it's been to the moon and back.
Other than putting off a percentage of potential buyers, who lets be honest if you read this forum, are put off by a whole host of other things anyway, there is no need to adjust clocks. Just keep the documentation.
Like I said, I own a car with the incorrect milage on the clocks. It doesn't bother me at all.
Just my opinion.
Professionals are simply better suited to the task.
Cars are so complex now that IF you are unaware then you are displaying sheer ignorance if you believe you are capable of assesing the vehicle to an acceptable standard.
I see your point but thats ironicly my point as well,
It's easy enough to spot a clocked vehicle when you are educated to a competent level of understanding and know what you are looking for. (Agreed, not in all cases though, but true for most)
Milage is a killer for a deal, will you be happy to lose a grand over the incorrect display even though its corroborated in paperwork?
Regulation = bad.
Make people able to spot bad mileage adjustments = good.
Reward people for using brains = good.
Utilise police, MOT centres and RAC type people to log mileages onto a database for reference by the general public too. Erroneous/dodgy entries being a case for bkings!
It's not a problem regulation will solve really, removing the ability for people to fall for it WILL solve it because there will be no incentive for people to do it if people won't fall for it!
Dave
Make people able to spot bad mileage adjustments = good.
Reward people for using brains = good.
Utilise police, MOT centres and RAC type people to log mileages onto a database for reference by the general public too. Erroneous/dodgy entries being a case for b
kings!It's not a problem regulation will solve really, removing the ability for people to fall for it WILL solve it because there will be no incentive for people to do it if people won't fall for it!
Dave
Pistonwot said:
All Im saying is if you dont know what youre looking at or for then youre leaving yourself wide open for a mugging. Thats your own fault for not seeking help.
Professionals are simply better suited to the task.
Cars are so complex now that IF you are unaware then you are displaying sheer ignorance if you believe you are capable of assesing the vehicle to an acceptable standard.
I see your point but thats ironicly my point as well,
It's easy enough to spot a clocked vehicle when you are educated to a competent level of understanding and know what you are looking for. (Agreed, not in all cases though, but true for most)
Milage is a killer for a deal, will you be happy to lose a grand over the incorrect display even though its corroborated in paperwork?
I don't think it does affect the value. It may reduce the market for the car but it won't make it worth less.Professionals are simply better suited to the task.
Cars are so complex now that IF you are unaware then you are displaying sheer ignorance if you believe you are capable of assesing the vehicle to an acceptable standard.
I see your point but thats ironicly my point as well,
It's easy enough to spot a clocked vehicle when you are educated to a competent level of understanding and know what you are looking for. (Agreed, not in all cases though, but true for most)
Milage is a killer for a deal, will you be happy to lose a grand over the incorrect display even though its corroborated in paperwork?
Having the wrong options boxes ticked can reduce the market for a car, I suspect to a much greater extent.
To me paperwork and honesty actually makes a car more desirable. A bit like a dirty engine and a few stone chips.
Much as I hate additional legislation,there is a possible solution:
This would be to have all mileage adjustment companies registered.
Any mileage adjustment would then need to be logged and recorded together with the v5 being returned to the dvla and noted on the v5.
There would be a charge for this.
Any mileage changes not done by a licensed company or not notified to the dvla would be punishable by large fine and/or death.
This would be to have all mileage adjustment companies registered.
Any mileage adjustment would then need to be logged and recorded together with the v5 being returned to the dvla and noted on the v5.
There would be a charge for this.
Any mileage changes not done by a licensed company or not notified to the dvla would be punishable by large fine and/or death.
Mr Whippy said:
Regulation = bad.
Make people able to spot bad mileage adjustments = good.
Reward people for using brains = good.
Utilise police, MOT centres and RAC type people to log mileages onto a database for reference by the general public too. Erroneous/dodgy entries being a case for bkings!
It's not a problem regulation will solve really, removing the ability for people to fall for it WILL solve it because there will be no incentive for people to do it if people won't fall for it!
Dave
This.Make people able to spot bad mileage adjustments = good.
Reward people for using brains = good.
Utilise police, MOT centres and RAC type people to log mileages onto a database for reference by the general public too. Erroneous/dodgy entries being a case for b
kings!It's not a problem regulation will solve really, removing the ability for people to fall for it WILL solve it because there will be no incentive for people to do it if people won't fall for it!
Dave
Not trolling here, and registered a new ID to protect me
Whenever I see a clocking thread I do laugh. All clockers are evil yet no one will admit to doing it.
I've clocked one car, giving it a haircut of 50,000. Done simply because it was up on miles and it would be hard to shift, so a quick haircut and it sold in a week.
The other car that was 'adjusted' was done so on an annual basis, after the MOT I would simply 'turn off' the speedo after clocking up 7,000 miles. The newer cars are harder to do but my advice on buying is simple.
If it has a service history then look for receipts as well as the stamps. Call the garages to confirm this work was done (I know someone who bought a 5 series with a FBMWSH. Later it went to a dealer for a service only for them to receive a call informing them of over a thoushand pounds worth of work needed as not serviced for at least 50,000 miles).
Look at the condition of the car, does it tally with the mileage?
Whenever I see a clocking thread I do laugh. All clockers are evil yet no one will admit to doing it.
I've clocked one car, giving it a haircut of 50,000. Done simply because it was up on miles and it would be hard to shift, so a quick haircut and it sold in a week.
The other car that was 'adjusted' was done so on an annual basis, after the MOT I would simply 'turn off' the speedo after clocking up 7,000 miles. The newer cars are harder to do but my advice on buying is simple.
If it has a service history then look for receipts as well as the stamps. Call the garages to confirm this work was done (I know someone who bought a 5 series with a FBMWSH. Later it went to a dealer for a service only for them to receive a call informing them of over a thoushand pounds worth of work needed as not serviced for at least 50,000 miles).
Look at the condition of the car, does it tally with the mileage?
KevinH80 said:
Not trolling here, and registered a new ID to protect me
Whenever I see a clocking thread I do laugh. All clockers are evil yet no one will admit to doing it.
I've clocked one car, giving it a haircut of 50,000. Done simply because it was up on miles and it would be hard to shift, so a quick haircut and it sold in a week.
The other car that was 'adjusted' was done so on an annual basis, after the MOT I would simply 'turn off' the speedo after clocking up 7,000 miles. The newer cars are harder to do but my advice on buying is simple.
If it has a service history then look for receipts as well as the stamps. Call the garages to confirm this work was done (I know someone who bought a 5 series with a FBMWSH. Later it went to a dealer for a service only for them to receive a call informing them of over a thoushand pounds worth of work needed as not serviced for at least 50,000 miles).
Look at the condition of the car, does it tally with the mileage?
GTFO.Whenever I see a clocking thread I do laugh. All clockers are evil yet no one will admit to doing it.
I've clocked one car, giving it a haircut of 50,000. Done simply because it was up on miles and it would be hard to shift, so a quick haircut and it sold in a week.
The other car that was 'adjusted' was done so on an annual basis, after the MOT I would simply 'turn off' the speedo after clocking up 7,000 miles. The newer cars are harder to do but my advice on buying is simple.
If it has a service history then look for receipts as well as the stamps. Call the garages to confirm this work was done (I know someone who bought a 5 series with a FBMWSH. Later it went to a dealer for a service only for them to receive a call informing them of over a thoushand pounds worth of work needed as not serviced for at least 50,000 miles).
Look at the condition of the car, does it tally with the mileage?
Devil2575 said:
Pistonwot said:
All Im saying is if you dont know what youre looking at or for then youre leaving yourself wide open for a mugging. Thats your own fault for not seeking help.
Professionals are simply better suited to the task.
Cars are so complex now that IF you are unaware then you are displaying sheer ignorance if you believe you are capable of assesing the vehicle to an acceptable standard.
I see your point but thats ironicly my point as well,
It's easy enough to spot a clocked vehicle when you are educated to a competent level of understanding and know what you are looking for. (Agreed, not in all cases though, but true for most)
Milage is a killer for a deal, will you be happy to lose a grand over the incorrect display even though its corroborated in paperwork?
I don't think it does affect the value. It may reduce the market for the car but it won't make it worth less.Professionals are simply better suited to the task.
Cars are so complex now that IF you are unaware then you are displaying sheer ignorance if you believe you are capable of assesing the vehicle to an acceptable standard.
I see your point but thats ironicly my point as well,
It's easy enough to spot a clocked vehicle when you are educated to a competent level of understanding and know what you are looking for. (Agreed, not in all cases though, but true for most)
Milage is a killer for a deal, will you be happy to lose a grand over the incorrect display even though its corroborated in paperwork?
Having the wrong options boxes ticked can reduce the market for a car, I suspect to a much greater extent.
To me paperwork and honesty actually makes a car more desirable. A bit like a dirty engine and a few stone chips.
The displayed milage being different to the paperwork matters in my limited experience. I bought an import. Originally it was kmh then converted to show mph. People were visibly offput just because the paperwork was vastly different from the display.
Both were correct.
Id say the only reason "local" garages offer this service is because the Main Dealers are ripping people off over it, all the MD see's is another opportunity. Its nonsense like that I want regulated.
Id bet the majority of "local" suppliers of the service are decent business owners who are helping us keep our cars in good order at a reasonable cost.
I also feel a lot of people would be without cars if these types of businesses are closed through over-zealous regulations like this.
va1o said:
KevinH80 said:
Not trolling here, and registered a new ID to protect me
Whenever I see a clocking thread I do laugh. All clockers are evil yet no one will admit to doing it.
I've clocked one car, giving it a haircut of 50,000. Done simply because it was up on miles and it would be hard to shift, so a quick haircut and it sold in a week.
The other car that was 'adjusted' was done so on an annual basis, after the MOT I would simply 'turn off' the speedo after clocking up 7,000 miles. The newer cars are harder to do but my advice on buying is simple.
If it has a service history then look for receipts as well as the stamps. Call the garages to confirm this work was done (I know someone who bought a 5 series with a FBMWSH. Later it went to a dealer for a service only for them to receive a call informing them of over a thoushand pounds worth of work needed as not serviced for at least 50,000 miles).
Look at the condition of the car, does it tally with the mileage?
GTFO.Whenever I see a clocking thread I do laugh. All clockers are evil yet no one will admit to doing it.
I've clocked one car, giving it a haircut of 50,000. Done simply because it was up on miles and it would be hard to shift, so a quick haircut and it sold in a week.
The other car that was 'adjusted' was done so on an annual basis, after the MOT I would simply 'turn off' the speedo after clocking up 7,000 miles. The newer cars are harder to do but my advice on buying is simple.
If it has a service history then look for receipts as well as the stamps. Call the garages to confirm this work was done (I know someone who bought a 5 series with a FBMWSH. Later it went to a dealer for a service only for them to receive a call informing them of over a thoushand pounds worth of work needed as not serviced for at least 50,000 miles).
Look at the condition of the car, does it tally with the mileage?
Fair play for the honesty I say.
Just goes to show that having knowledge of what you are doing as a buyer is the only way forward.
This can be worth a fortune on prestige and super cars.
A few years back a guy who worked in a high-end car repair workshop was showing me around when the place was closed, showing off the Ferraris and Lambos etc that they had in.
He explained that one of the Fezzas was in for paint work and to have its clocks put back after taking part in a Gumball Rally style event. Apparently it was a regular think - they didn't do it themselves but got a guy in to do it.
A few years back a guy who worked in a high-end car repair workshop was showing me around when the place was closed, showing off the Ferraris and Lambos etc that they had in.
He explained that one of the Fezzas was in for paint work and to have its clocks put back after taking part in a Gumball Rally style event. Apparently it was a regular think - they didn't do it themselves but got a guy in to do it.
Interesting that some choose to mock those they accuse of "paranoia". Once the insurance companies decide that premiums will be two-fold on cars not verified by themselves as being mileage correct on the grounds of "safety" then perhaps those views might change. "Verified" of course meaning verified by a means that they can control (hello again mr black box). Of course all mot'd cars are safe to that std, but insurance companies like to work from statistics (when allowed - see gendre). They already offer discounts for voluntary black boxes, the data from these will likely show reduced risk to the companies in claims. Therefore they will know the likelyhood of same car/liability accidents with/without blackbox from their data. Data will already be avaible to them re the cars most often clocked in the uk by make/model. If they can then prove that these particular vehicles are a greater risk (taking into account already black box/non black box av. stats) then it's all over, black boxes will by compulsory and it will get the govts blessing. In fairness this will put an end to a lot of the mileage issues discussed in this thread. It will also curtail a lot of speeding and no doubt the subsequent figures showing reduced road deaths will be wheeled out to a fanfare.
Paranoia? Personally I can't see it going any other way. For future generations cars will be a means of transport only in the UK, there will be little pleasure to gained from driving them.
Get the best/fastest/car of your dreams that you can afford right now and rag the absolute st out of it on the public roads while you still can is my advice.
Paranoia? Personally I can't see it going any other way. For future generations cars will be a means of transport only in the UK, there will be little pleasure to gained from driving them.
Get the best/fastest/car of your dreams that you can afford right now and rag the absolute s
t out of it on the public roads while you still can is my advice. Hi,
Me being a bit thick,so here goes..... I believe odometers were put on cars so that you could measure when the car needs servicing when the car industry didn't have technology to workout when a car needs servicing.
My question is why do we still see cars with visible odometers.... Systems in cars now automatically workout when the car needs a service, so why dont car companies hold the mileage information in the main CPU of the car and if required use tools to be able to extract it if required.
Then people would be forced to look at a cars condition rather than focusing purely on mileage. Also perhaps it would be a good idea for the computer in the car logging what types of journeys it has had in its lifetime, which could then e printed out. So a car that has not been driven far but has mostly been used for short trips the buyer would be aware of it.
Just my 2p
Pete
Me being a bit thick,so here goes..... I believe odometers were put on cars so that you could measure when the car needs servicing when the car industry didn't have technology to workout when a car needs servicing.
My question is why do we still see cars with visible odometers.... Systems in cars now automatically workout when the car needs a service, so why dont car companies hold the mileage information in the main CPU of the car and if required use tools to be able to extract it if required.
Then people would be forced to look at a cars condition rather than focusing purely on mileage. Also perhaps it would be a good idea for the computer in the car logging what types of journeys it has had in its lifetime, which could then e printed out. So a car that has not been driven far but has mostly been used for short trips the buyer would be aware of it.
Just my 2p
Pete
HairbearTE said:
Interesting that some choose to mock those they accuse of "paranoia". Once the insurance companies decide that premiums will be two-fold on cars not verified by themselves as being mileage correct on the grounds of "safety" then perhaps those views might change. "Verified" of course meaning verified by a means that they can control (hello again mr black box). Of course all mot'd cars are safe to that std, but insurance companies like to work from statistics (when allowed - see gendre). They already offer discounts for voluntary black boxes, the data from these will likely show reduced risk to the companies in claims. Therefore they will know the likelyhood of same car/liability accidents with/without blackbox from their data. Data will already be avaible to them re the cars most often clocked in the uk by make/model. If they can then prove that these particular vehicles are a greater risk (taking into account already black box/non black box av. stats) then it's all over, black boxes will by compulsory and it will get the govts blessing. In fairness this will put an end to a lot of the mileage issues discussed in this thread. It will also curtail a lot of speeding and no doubt the subsequent figures showing reduced road deaths will be wheeled out to a fanfare.
Paranoia? Personally I can't see it going any other way. For future generations cars will be a means of transport only in the UK, there will be little pleasure to gained from driving them.
Get the best/fastest/car of your dreams that you can afford right now and rag the absolute st out of it on the public roads while you still can is my advice.
^ THISParanoia? Personally I can't see it going any other way. For future generations cars will be a means of transport only in the UK, there will be little pleasure to gained from driving them.
Get the best/fastest/car of your dreams that you can afford right now and rag the absolute s
t out of it on the public roads while you still can is my advice. Emeye said:
This can be worth a fortune on prestige and super cars.
A few years back a guy who worked in a high-end car repair workshop was showing me around when the place was closed, showing off the Ferraris and Lambos etc that they had in.
He explained that one of the Fezzas was in for paint work and to have its clocks put back after taking part in a Gumball Rally style event. Apparently it was a regular think - they didn't do it themselves but got a guy in to do it.
Hardly a secret. I wonder how many UK 599s aren't clocked?A few years back a guy who worked in a high-end car repair workshop was showing me around when the place was closed, showing off the Ferraris and Lambos etc that they had in.
He explained that one of the Fezzas was in for paint work and to have its clocks put back after taking part in a Gumball Rally style event. Apparently it was a regular think - they didn't do it themselves but got a guy in to do it.
Trommel said:
Hardly a secret I wonder how many UK 599s aren't clocked?
No, not secret, as this guy was obviously bragging about it.But if, as you say, they are all clocked and everyone knows this, what is the point of clocking them as no one would buy one would they, or it would hit the resale price?. Bizarre.
robinessex said:
Why not have the car capable of linking automatically via Wi-Fi & internet every time it detected a Wi-Fi link, and download an update of mileage and any other parameters to the manufacturer. Then an almost daily record of the cars history would be available via any main dealer.
Probably not a good idea as that may lead down the path of your car getting a virus from the net etc. I'm dreading the day that vehicle software upgrades are automatic via wifi etc as my workload will increase a fair bit. Cars are better left off the net so to speak.wolf1 said:
robinessex said:
Why not have the car capable of linking automatically via Wi-Fi & internet every time it detected a Wi-Fi link, and download an update of mileage and any other parameters to the manufacturer. Then an almost daily record of the cars history would be available via any main dealer.
Probably not a good idea as that may lead down the path of your car getting a virus from the net etc. I'm dreading the day that vehicle software upgrades are automatic via wifi etc as my workload will increase a fair bit. Cars are better left off the net so to speak.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff