RE: Spotted: Honda Civic Type-R JDM
Discussion
anything fast said:
18K? hmmmmm
You can get a decent Mitsi Evo for a lot less than that and it would tear this a new xxxhole!
Your point being? You're not far off 911 Turbo money IIRC, and that'll tear an Evo a new one. But that's not the point, it never is.You can get a decent Mitsi Evo for a lot less than that and it would tear this a new xxxhole!
Even if you can get more for your money elsewhere, you'll have a lot less of it left come resale time!
If it's overpriced now, it must have been new, yet people still bought them, and far less interesting cars for far more money.
Dagnut said:
Grovsie26 said:
And what have the europeans done? Just added bigger blowers to the same engine? and made there cars fatter and heavier.
I have little doubt on track or round a twisty b-road a FD2 would be right up the arse end of all these new hot hatches. And the FD2 is over 5 years old now.
Or i could be really dumb and say buy a FD2 for 14-16k which can be done, and spend the 10k you saved on the current hot hatches on mods. Then what?
I don't get your point mate. Are you saying you want Honda to make hatches like everyone else? They don't make anything like that now lol.
I have little doubt on track or round a twisty b-road a FD2 would be right up the arse end of all these new hot hatches. And the FD2 is over 5 years old now.
Or i could be really dumb and say buy a FD2 for 14-16k which can be done, and spend the 10k you saved on the current hot hatches on mods. Then what?
I don't get your point mate. Are you saying you want Honda to make hatches like everyone else? They don't make anything like that now lol.
My point is about progression...how can you bring mods into the debate?..that is dumb you are right.
Cars are heavier now out of necessity, no one sets out to make a heavy car , that is just ridiculous and it's because of equipment levels,dimensions and safety standards that have to be met.
the EP3 was the best of it's generation and it got worse if anything, you need to go to a 25k JDM model to get a better car.
DC5 to FD2 not a massive leap forward was my original point.
Focus RS mk1 to MK2...big leap forward ...300bhp, Revo-Knuckle etc...
I'm not comparing the Focus RS to the FD2, different experiences appeal to different people, I am comparing the progression similar models have made...I think 95% of the experience of the FD2 can be had in a DC5
Euroboxes dont do dynamics, the driving experience reeks only of monotony and dullness. WE are not included in the event of driving.
Focus, TT, Golf, A3, theyre all the same IMAGE obsessed but boredom inducing "white goods".
Chock full-o-tat and verging on useless as a driving machine, inherantly unstable without the aid of multiple computers to keep their rediculous weights in check.
Only the R26 stands out as unique.
Otherwise this succinctly sums the Euro approach up for me.
"Box goes, box stops and box has handling ability of soggy, unpalatable pudding".
That doesnt make a good car in my opinion no matter what crap is glued to its surfaces.
Im not saying that the JDM Honda is better or worse but the truth is to use a Euro box as a point of comparison for anything other than mediocrity is misguided and verging upon the rediculous.
They are boring and offer the driver very little interaction..
kayzee said:
SuperchargedVR6 said:
TEKNOPUG said:
£18k? Fantasy.
Indeed.You could buy this - http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/use...
....and this - http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/use...
...and still have some pocket money left.
Mad money, I think PH did this to attract attention because it's so obviously overpriced. These could be had for £16k just over a year ago already imported, so I dare say if you cared to import one yourself you'd be looking around the £10k mark, and it would be in a better colour.
I'm told the reason most Jap imports drop in price like they do (like the DC5 is doing right now) is because of the Japanese MOT system causing older cars to get rather expensive to own, hence prices drop faster. In another year or two I expect these to come down to where DC5's are now roughly and you should see a good few more on UK roads as a result.
I'm told the reason most Jap imports drop in price like they do (like the DC5 is doing right now) is because of the Japanese MOT system causing older cars to get rather expensive to own, hence prices drop faster. In another year or two I expect these to come down to where DC5's are now roughly and you should see a good few more on UK roads as a result.
Kozy said:
anything fast said:
18K? hmmmmm
You can get a decent Mitsi Evo for a lot less than that and it would tear this a new xxxhole!
Your point being? You're not far off 911 Turbo money IIRC, and that'll tear an Evo a new one. But that's not the point, it never is.You can get a decent Mitsi Evo for a lot less than that and it would tear this a new xxxhole!
Even if you can get more for your money elsewhere, you'll have a lot less of it left come resale time!
If it's overpriced now, it must have been new, yet people still bought them, and far less interesting cars for far more money.
my point is I would rather the above and have much better car and save a wad of cash... and judging by how few there are not many people bought them. Its different granted, but its ugly as sin, has the worst back lights I have ever seen and is not all that fast when you mix it with the big boys. I think even a £2000 barry boy Impreza WRX would give it a hiding. Sorry dont see the appeal at all.
Cool car but agreed that it is expensive for what it offers.
I've owned an EP3 Civic Type R, an S2000 and DC2 Integra Type R so I "get" the Type R / VTEC thing. You'd definitely have to be of a similar mindset to punt £18k at the JDM Civic though. That said, contemporary reports did read well and its probably (Accord Type R aside) the perfect example of the Jekyl & Hyde character than the VTEC engines give; sedate enough to take the kids to school but absolutely rampant on the right road.
As an aside, I never found the iVTEC engines "wanting" in the torque department either. Yes, the earlier engines in the DC2 and the S2000 were more peaky, but the newer engines were fine. There will always be something special about revving an engine to 8000rpm and beyond. Unless you delve into supercar territory there aren't many modern cars with engines that can do that anymore.
I'm off to browse the DC5 classifieds. The only other one I've always wanted to add to my list... (OK, apart from an NSX but I'll never have the cash!)
I've owned an EP3 Civic Type R, an S2000 and DC2 Integra Type R so I "get" the Type R / VTEC thing. You'd definitely have to be of a similar mindset to punt £18k at the JDM Civic though. That said, contemporary reports did read well and its probably (Accord Type R aside) the perfect example of the Jekyl & Hyde character than the VTEC engines give; sedate enough to take the kids to school but absolutely rampant on the right road.
As an aside, I never found the iVTEC engines "wanting" in the torque department either. Yes, the earlier engines in the DC2 and the S2000 were more peaky, but the newer engines were fine. There will always be something special about revving an engine to 8000rpm and beyond. Unless you delve into supercar territory there aren't many modern cars with engines that can do that anymore.
I'm off to browse the DC5 classifieds. The only other one I've always wanted to add to my list... (OK, apart from an NSX but I'll never have the cash!)
scholesy said:
Mad money, I think PH did this to attract attention because it's so obviously overpriced. These could be had for £16k just over a year ago already imported, so I dare say if you cared to import one yourself you'd be looking around the £10k mark, and it would be in a better colour.
I'm told the reason most Jap imports drop in price like they do (like the DC5 is doing right now) is because of the Japanese MOT system causing older cars to get rather expensive to own, hence prices drop faster. In another year or two I expect these to come down to where DC5's are now roughly and you should see a good few more on UK roads as a result.
If you can import one for 10grand can you get me 2 while your at it.I'm told the reason most Jap imports drop in price like they do (like the DC5 is doing right now) is because of the Japanese MOT system causing older cars to get rather expensive to own, hence prices drop faster. In another year or two I expect these to come down to where DC5's are now roughly and you should see a good few more on UK roads as a result.
Pistonwot said:
I dont measure progression by how much other pointless tat is stuffed into it this year, I prefer dynamics. Thats where the problem begins.
Euroboxes dont do dynamics, the driving experience reeks only of monotony and dullness. WE are not included in the event of driving.
Focus, TT, Golf, A3, theyre all the same IMAGE obsessed but boredom inducing "white goods".
Chock full-o-tat and verging on useless as a driving machine, inherantly unstable without the aid of multiple computers to keep their rediculous weights in check.
Only the R26 stands out as unique.
Otherwise this succinctly sums the Euro approach up for me.
"Box goes, box stops and box has handling ability of soggy, unpalatable pudding".
That doesnt make a good car in my opinion no matter what crap is glued to its surfaces.
Im not saying that the JDM Honda is better or worse but the truth is to use a Euro box as a point of comparison for anything other than mediocrity is misguided and verging upon the rediculous.
They are boring and offer the driver very little interaction..
I didn't say they were better did I? I made a caveat in every post to state that. The experiences of the cars are subjective, I trying to be objective about the value of the car compared with it's own breed!!!Euroboxes dont do dynamics, the driving experience reeks only of monotony and dullness. WE are not included in the event of driving.
Focus, TT, Golf, A3, theyre all the same IMAGE obsessed but boredom inducing "white goods".
Chock full-o-tat and verging on useless as a driving machine, inherantly unstable without the aid of multiple computers to keep their rediculous weights in check.
Only the R26 stands out as unique.
Otherwise this succinctly sums the Euro approach up for me.
"Box goes, box stops and box has handling ability of soggy, unpalatable pudding".
That doesnt make a good car in my opinion no matter what crap is glued to its surfaces.
Im not saying that the JDM Honda is better or worse but the truth is to use a Euro box as a point of comparison for anything other than mediocrity is misguided and verging upon the rediculous.
They are boring and offer the driver very little interaction..
DC5 V FD2..... again I am not comparing a Focus RS with an FD2 I was comparing MK1 v Mk2 and DC5 v FD2.
You could buy a DC5 and get 95% of what you get from the FD2.... you couldn't say the same for the MK1 focus v MK2 or Megane 225 v Megane RS etc etc etc... blah blah blah
The whole debate was the value of this car at 17k, not Euro v JDM.... I'm not on a side like Coke v Pepsi or apple v PC of any of that nonsense nor am I trying to raise one of those pointless fanboy debates.
I'm saying I would find better value in a older Honda, than 17k for this, as they where 95% of the way there in 2002.
Grovsie26 said:
But it's a JDM, it was never sold here and never was. It's going to demand a premium like all Honda JDM cars, especially the FD2 as there are more than likely more lambo's in the country than these.
Its value is what it sells for we all know that, its worth to the average enthusiast, the experience it offers ...can be debated...a lot of the value of these cars is the kudos it offers in the community... similarly with S204 model imprezas etc, these cars tend to be sold to people already in the know...
to the average enthusiast when you drive them it's hard to see why they are demanding 3 times the price of similar models...to the brand die hards they would snap up the chance to own one.
Mastodon2 said:
Dagnut said:
you could look at hot hatches then...look at where the Europeans have gone with hot hatchs
Piling on loads of weight, needing more and more boost to compensate for the weight? Needing huge tyres and clever diff technology to get the power to the road? This is not necessarily "progress" for the petrol head. The Focus RS MK1 was in the bracket with the EP3, but the RS MK2 is not in the same bracket as the RS MK1 - it's much bigger, heavier, more powerful and more expensive. These days, when you look at a new Astra VXR costing £27,000, compared to what the Type Rs cost new, you have to wonder why it's so much more expensive - it's all down to playing the spec wars with the Germans.
With the death of the NA Type R and the last NA RS Clios going through the showrooms, it's not bright future for those people who like light-ish, revvy, driver focused hot hatches. The Clio is going up in weight, downsizing in engine and going turbocharged with a paddle shift gearbox - if that doesn't signify an iconic hot hatch changing tack from keen driver's car to something else entirely then I don't know what it is. I just hope that Honda's next Type R, which unfortunately will be turbocharged, retains the core values that made the Type R brand great; light for it's class, an engine that loves to rev and power that increases into a surge towards the redline, rather than the typical turbo delivery of other hot hatches that become breathless as the redline approaches.
Dagnut said:
Its value is what it sells for we all know that, its worth to the average enthusiast, the experience it offers ...can be debated...a lot of the value of these cars is the kudos it offers in the community...
similarly with S204 model imprezas etc, these cars tend to be sold to people already in the know...
to the average enthusiast when you drive them it's hard to see why they are demanding 3 times the price of similar models...to the brand die hards they would snap up the chance to own one.
Have you driven one? Ive not myself but spoken to owners who've come from DC5's, etc, etc and there supposed to be great. DC5's used to be very expensive when they were the same age as FD2's as well..........don't forget that.similarly with S204 model imprezas etc, these cars tend to be sold to people already in the know...
to the average enthusiast when you drive them it's hard to see why they are demanding 3 times the price of similar models...to the brand die hards they would snap up the chance to own one.
anything fast said:
18K? hmmmmm
You can get a decent Mitsi Evo for a lot less than that and it would tear this a new xxxhole!
On track at least don't think an Evo won't be that far ahead, these are Best Motorings lap times around Suzuka...You can get a decent Mitsi Evo for a lot less than that and it would tear this a new xxxhole!
Edited by anything fast on Tuesday 27th November 14:44
Honda NSX-R 2:34.08
Honda NSX Type-S Zero 2:34.69
Honda Civic Type-R JDM 2:35.20
Nissan Skyline GT-R R34 2:36.26
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VI 2:36.50
It's a lot quicker than its paper figures suggest.
Edited by DanielSan on Tuesday 27th November 19:15
I'd have a 2008+ 330i M-Sport Touring, a sorted DC2 or DC5 and some change from my £30k.
I really do like the FD2 - seriously considering one as a 'family car'. But the money they're fetching is more than an equivalent age/miles 330i/335i and more than an equivalent miles/condition E46 M3 (actually, they're probably M3 CS money). £18k would also get you an 08/09 VXR8 if you were so inclined. Or an '07 E60 M5. Or even an 07 RS4 with a little bit of patience. Not that much of a step-up from there to get an NSX either...
All of which makes the FD2 prices ever-so-slightly silly.
As for investment, can I point people in the direction of Mk1 Focus RS prices (I think already mentioned) - very strong for a few years then have recently dropped off notably, and not just because the Mk2 was launched. Not that dissimilar with the DC5 - strong for a while then they fell off the radar and dropped to a more realistic long-term level. Now there ARE a lot fewer FD2s, but they're only worth as much as the next punter will pay for them...and even I wouldn't pay that money for one.
I really do like the FD2 - seriously considering one as a 'family car'. But the money they're fetching is more than an equivalent age/miles 330i/335i and more than an equivalent miles/condition E46 M3 (actually, they're probably M3 CS money). £18k would also get you an 08/09 VXR8 if you were so inclined. Or an '07 E60 M5. Or even an 07 RS4 with a little bit of patience. Not that much of a step-up from there to get an NSX either...
All of which makes the FD2 prices ever-so-slightly silly.
As for investment, can I point people in the direction of Mk1 Focus RS prices (I think already mentioned) - very strong for a few years then have recently dropped off notably, and not just because the Mk2 was launched. Not that dissimilar with the DC5 - strong for a while then they fell off the radar and dropped to a more realistic long-term level. Now there ARE a lot fewer FD2s, but they're only worth as much as the next punter will pay for them...and even I wouldn't pay that money for one.
scholesy said:
Mad money, I think PH did this to attract attention because it's so obviously overpriced. These could be had for £16k just over a year ago already imported, so I dare say if you cared to import one yourself you'd be looking around the £10k mark, and it would be in a better colour.
.
These won't be at the £10k mark for a long time, production was only 2 years and the strength of the yen has meant there's only one or two being imported into the UK, the market is more about cars that are already here..
Type R Tom said:
There are more expensive Civics out there, question is would you have an FD2 Mugen RR or a FN2 Civic Mugen 20? Both cost around £30k at the moment and are extremely rare!
Mugen RR all day long, the M20 lacks all the bits that made the concept car special as standard equipment (bonnet, front wings, Recaro's etc) whereas the RR has all that, and looks a lot cooler Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff