Changing the waterpump with timing belt - why??

[wolf1]

BFG TERRANO said:

What needs a new belt at 30k? I thought 60 to 100k was more the norm?

Twinspark Alfas

[BFG TERRANO]

wolf1 said:

Twinspark Alfas

Thank you, didn't know anything was so frequent.

[GTO Scott]

Here's the aftermath of a waterpump failure:



Pump seized, friction melted the cambelt and all 24 valves were scrap.

£2k bill for the sake of a £50 part.

[FeelingLucky]

Condi said:

Whats the thinking behind this? Water pumps dont go that often do they? It seems like a way of making the garage some extra cash because they can, Ive never known a waterpump fail and yet everyone seems to change them when the timing belt is off.

I know its 'only' £30, but when Im only paying £120 or so for the cambelt its still another 25% which might not need paying.

Not sure if serious, I suspect not.

[Condi]

FeelingLucky said:

Not sure if serious, I suspect not.

Whyfore? In my line of business we change things when they need changing, not because 'you can'. Ive spent a lot of years around tractors and plant machinery and never 'preventativly' changed a water pump. I think Ive only changed one because it was 'gone', 99% of the time its just the gaskets which leak, put some new sealer on and they are good again.

If thats the case with cars then I shall put a new gasket on, its just a shaft and a bearing afterall; nothing complicated.

[Willy Nilly]

Condi said:

Whyfore? In my line of business we change things when they need changing, not because 'you can'. Ive spent a lot of years around tractors and plant machinery and never 'preventativly' changed a water pump. I think Ive only changed one because it was 'gone', 99% of the time its just the gaskets which leak, put some new sealer on and they are good again.

If thats the case with cars then I shall put a new gasket on, its just a shaft and a bearing afterall; nothing complicated.

My tractor had a major service on Monday and I even got new fan and compressor belts, well I would have, but they bought Sisu belts and it's got a Perkins. Change the water pump as well you flat cap wearing tight wad;).

Parents had a water pump let go on VW powered Skoda, it was never right again.

[jamoor]

Is it me or is it a really stupid design to have the timing belt and waterpump on the same belt?

[Marf]

jamoor said:

Is it me or is it a really stupid design to have the timing belt and waterpump on the same belt?

Why? Using a second belt to drive the water pump is just adding another point of failure.

[Biker's Nemesis]

I did the water pump (nearly £400) and tensioners on my Focus RS back in July this year.

One of the damn tensioners was nearly £150!

It's only covered 310 miles since then.

[BFG TERRANO]

jamoor said:

Is it me or is it a really stupid design to have the timing belt and waterpump on the same belt?

I've thought this also. I'd rather a pump fail alone rather than taking the engine with it as it dies.

[Condi]

Willy Nilly said:

My tractor had a major service on Monday and I even got new fan and compressor belts, well I would have, but they bought Sisu belts and it's got a Perkins. Change the water pump as well you flat cap wearing tight wad;).

Parents had a water pump let go on VW powered Skoda, it was never right again.

My dislike of spending money comes more from my northern roots than any occupation. Its against a Yorkshireman's religion.

[hairykrishna]

Marf said:

jamoor said:

Is it me or is it a really stupid design to have the timing belt and waterpump on the same belt?

Why? Using a second belt to drive the water pump is just adding another point of failure.

The one on the MK1 MR2 is driven off the alternator belt. Seemed very sensible to me.

[steve singh]

BFG TERRANO said:

wolf1 said:

Twinspark Alfas

Thank you, didn't know anything was so frequent.

Mk5 gti is every 4 years - water pump and cambelt - about 450 notes...

[Marf]

hairykrishna said:

Marf said:

jamoor said:

Is it me or is it a really stupid design to have the timing belt and waterpump on the same belt?

Why? Using a second belt to drive the water pump is just adding another point of failure.

The one on the MK1 MR2 is driven off the alternator belt. Seemed very sensible to me.

As was my Charade's water pump, when I moved to an Mk2 MR2 I found that the water pump was driven off the cambelt and thought that was very sensible.

Interesting that Toyota decided to eliminate an extra belt and pulley when moving from the Mk1 to the Mk2.

[driverrob]

Years ago I had a water pump seize up in a traffic jam in Wembley High St.
Horribly load screeching noise, smoke from burning belt and steam from overheating engine.

Just get it done.

[Megaflow]

Marf said:

hairykrishna said:

Marf said:

jamoor said:

Is it me or is it a really stupid design to have the timing belt and waterpump on the same belt?

Why? Using a second belt to drive the water pump is just adding another point of failure.

The one on the MK1 MR2 is driven off the alternator belt. Seemed very sensible to me.

As was my Charade's water pump, when I moved to an Mk2 MR2 I found that the water pump was driven off the cambelt and thought that was very sensible.

Interesting that Toyota decided to eliminate an extra belt and pulley when moving from the Mk1 to the Mk2.

I'll belt they didn't eliminate the second belt, because the alternator still required drive, quite probably along with the air con and PAS pump.

They might have removed the water pump drive from the aux belt though.

[Willy Nilly]

Condi said:

My dislike of spending money comes more from my northern roots than any occupation. Its against a Yorkshireman's religion.

Do you get a company car flogging grain, or whatever you do now?

I had to get a pry bar and WD40 to my wallet only this morning, but broke the handle on the pry bar

[Marf]

Megaflow said:

Marf said:

hairykrishna said:

Marf said:

jamoor said:

Is it me or is it a really stupid design to have the timing belt and waterpump on the same belt?

Why? Using a second belt to drive the water pump is just adding another point of failure.

The one on the MK1 MR2 is driven off the alternator belt. Seemed very sensible to me.

As was my Charade's water pump, when I moved to an Mk2 MR2 I found that the water pump was driven off the cambelt and thought that was very sensible.

Interesting that Toyota decided to eliminate an extra belt and pulley when moving from the Mk1 to the Mk2.

I'll belt they didn't eliminate the second belt, because the alternator still required drive, quite probably along with the air con and PAS pump.

They might have removed the water pump drive from the aux belt though.

I'll take that belt

Fair enough, an extra pulley then

Also the PAS is not driven off the engine on an MR2

Having had the aux belt come off the Charade on the drag strip twice, I felt running the water pump off the cambelt was eminently sensible.

Edited by Marf on Sunday 2nd December 17:15

[4key]

A thread from here last Sunday shows that its a good idea to just change everything at once, that wouldnt have shown any external signs of wear until it just fell apart.





Quite a few cars came with crappy plastic impellers.

[redtwin]

Condi said:

Whyfore? In my line of business we change things when they need changing, not because 'you can'. Ive spent a lot of years around tractors and plant machinery and never 'preventativly' changed a water pump.

How many tractors and plant machinery use cambelts?. Or more importantly, cambelt driven water pumps?.

In my 26 year car ownership history I didn't own a cambelt equipped car until 3 years ago. As such they are relatively new to me, but I do understand their shortcomings and don't try to apply my "old" logic and practices to their care and maintenance.