Changing the waterpump with timing belt - why??
Discussion
marmitemania said:
People are also forgeting that when you fit a new timing belt and re tension it is natrualy tighter than the one that has come off, this puts extra pressure on the water pump that was not there before. I have done 100's of timing belts and will not do it without changing the water pump.
Yes I forgot to add I always change the tensioner and any guide pulleys aswell, as said you just get a complete timing belt kit, and it should be a Gates kit at the very least, I also usually fit the manufactures water pump aswell as I have had pattern pumps start to fail on more than one occasion.
^ Quite.
The upside of plastic tensioners/idlers is they *should* be cheap. Back when I had cavaliers my GSI had noisy tensioner/idler, I forget the cost, but they were quite expensive.
Later did the same job on the turbo and they were far cheaper - engines were pretty similar but the turbos had plastic ones.
The upside of plastic tensioners/idlers is they *should* be cheap. Back when I had cavaliers my GSI had noisy tensioner/idler, I forget the cost, but they were quite expensive.
Later did the same job on the turbo and they were far cheaper - engines were pretty similar but the turbos had plastic ones.
saaby93 said:
ok but the list has already increased to add in the pulleys
Any other cam mechanisms? How long do headgaskets last
I think it depends how reliable the part is though... One car I've had there were no real reports of the tensioner failing, so I didn't replace it. Another they had a reputation for not lasting indefinitely, and so it seemed a sensible precaution to replace it. If I had a car where the headgasket had a reputation for typically lasting about 80,000 miles, then I might well get it changed during a 60,000 cambelt change. On most cars the headgasket doesn't routinely fail, and so (obviously) I'd leave well alone.Any other cam mechanisms? How long do headgaskets last
saaby93 said:
ok but the list has already increased to add in the pulleys
Any other cam mechanisms? How long do headgaskets last
saaby93 said:
ok but the list has already increased to add in the pulleys
Any other cam mechanisms? How long do headgaskets last
Condi said:
saaby93 said:
ok but the list has already increased to add in the pulleys
Any other cam mechanisms? How long do headgaskets last
Condi said:
Most things are wearing parts in the extreme. Clutches are designed to wear, CV joints dont last forever, starter motor dog clutches, wheel bearings go etc. You've got to be sensible and replace what needs replacing, rather than what 'might' be on its way out.
At last 
Manufacturers specify intervals for cam belts
They don't specify intervals for cambelt tensioner, pulley wheels or water pump.
Why not?
Condi said:
Whyfore? In my line of business we change things when they need changing, not because 'you can'. Ive spent a lot of years around tractors and plant machinery and never 'preventativly' changed a water pump. I think Ive only changed one because it was 'gone', 99% of the time its just the gaskets which leak, put some new sealer on and they are good again.
If thats the case with cars then I shall put a new gasket on, its just a shaft and a bearing afterall; nothing complicated.
Condi, maintenance can be split into two types 1) replace when needed, and 2) planned preventative maintenance...and it's the latter that water pumps fall into. from thread it appears you have changed the water pump?? anyone who does not do this when changing cambelts deserves maximum financial pain...fail to it once, and you won't do it again.If thats the case with cars then I shall put a new gasket on, its just a shaft and a bearing afterall; nothing complicated.
ref' headlamp bulbs...there's a good trick you can do. when one goes replace both and keep the second as a spare in the glovebox. do this because the next time one dies it'll be when you need BOTH headlamps the most
good luck with your eco-maintenance and remind me to never buy a car from you
Preventative maintenance/PPM is nothing weird, its everyday stuff in industries like facilities http://www.maxwellstewart.com/Planned-Preventative...
marmitemania said:
Head gaskets go for lots of different reasons and are not something you change as part of the cars maintenance, they should last the lifetime of the car. Where people go wrong with head gaskets is not finding the cause of the gasket failure and just replacing it for the same to happen again in the not to distant future.
The majority of head gasket failure is because people don't change coolant at the correct time.saaby93 said:
Condi said:
Most things are wearing parts in the extreme. Clutches are designed to wear, CV joints dont last forever, starter motor dog clutches, wheel bearings go etc. You've got to be sensible and replace what needs replacing, rather than what 'might' be on its way out.
At last Manufacturers specify intervals for cam belts
They don't specify intervals for cambelt tensioner, pulley wheels or water pump.
Why not?
That's not the point here, though. If a garage for some unknown reason had a special offer where they fitted replacement wheel bearings with zero labour charge - only the cost of the part - and if I had a car where the wheel bearing had a reputation for starting to fail at 80-100,000 miles, then if my car was on 60,000 miles I might take them up on that offer.
That's the situation with a cambelt driven waterpump during a cambelt change. You've effectively got a one-off chance to have it fitted for zero labour charge, and that might make it worth doing even if it wouldn't normally form part of a preventative maintenance schedule.
There's a separate issue on particular cars if tensioner and/or water pump have a weakness and are known to sometimes fail and take out the belt. In that case, replacing them may well be sensible. Indeed, I wouldn't be surprised if some manufacturers' official procedure includes fitting a new tensioner along with a new belt. At that point, the tensioner effectively does have a specified interval just as the belt does, even if it's just written down as "replace toothed belt" in the schedule.
saaby93 said:
Surely the idea of the tensioner is to maintain the smae tension through out the life of the belt and apply the same tension to a new belt?
Who changes the tensioner with each cambelt too?
That depends entirely on the type of tensioner. Many (mostly older) engines have no active tensioning, you simply set the tension when you fit the belt and it will reduce as the belt stretches. Others have hydraulic/spring tensioners that will maintain tension.Who changes the tensioner with each cambelt too?
Not changing a timing belt driven water pump when the belt is changed is a massive false economy. Any half decent garage will refuse to change only a belt without a water pump, tensioners and idlers.
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