RE: PH Carpool: Smart Roadster Coupe

[pits]

pthelazyjourno said:

pits said:

Trust me, if you have ever driven a Smart Roadster towards a roundabout, with an oncoming truck, you will know exactly what I am on about.

It wasn't with regard to the comment itself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p3UEzPj4Sk

To shreds you say it was both a reference to the Smart leaving you in the lurch, and the truck hitting you...to shreds, and the oldness of Farnsworth doing the gear change from the moon.

[LuS1fer]

You say practical but isn't this the one TG said had the luggage capacity to accommodate a small bag of potatoes?

[kambites]

LuS1fer said:

You say practical but isn't this the one TG said had the luggage capacity to accommodate a small bag of potatoes?

I suspect that was the Roadster rather than the Roadster Coupe. They both have respectable space in the nose, though, from what I remember.

[Varn]

I've driven (not owned) a couple of these - one was an early production car, the other late. The gearbox seemed much faster on the later version...did they change something? Some of the slow gearbox comments above seem to be about early production cars also.

I enjoyed driving them - feels like you're going alot faster than you are (in comparison with many other cars),nicely balanced, and low grip - can get to the limits at legal speeds

I couldn't live without a manual clutch however.

Edited by Varn on Monday 3rd December 14:58

[stephen300o]

kambites said:

stephen300o said:

My Smart had plenty of storage, excellent steering...

Do you mean you had a non-standard rack, or just that you liked it as it was?

Didn't see anything wrong with the steering as it came from the factory, I remapped her and put eibach springs/spacers on.

[Mr_C]

If the day at Cadwell was a cold October day a couple of years ago, I was there in my red s1 Elise. It was a great day.

[stephen300o]

Varn said:

I've driven (not owned) a couple of these - one was an early production car, the other late. The gearbox seemed much faster on the later version...did they change something? Some of the slow gearbox comments above seem to be about early production cars also.

I enjoyed driving them - feels like you're going alot faster than you are (in comparison with many other cars),nicely balanced, and low grip - can get to the limits at legal speeds

I couldn't live without a manual clutch however.

Edited by Varn on Monday 3rd December 14:58

Don't know about the 'low grip' bit, I seemed to go flat out everywhere! Lol

[300bhp/ton]

pits said:

If they had a manual gearbox I would have one all day long, but with the quite frankly dreadful auto box which sends the change gear command to the Smart station based on the moon, where a man is awoken from a slumber to go "awuhwuh, 2nd you say? Oh my you're on a roundabout, how about 3rd? No 2nd? Neutral? Oh My you have full throttle, 1st gear...oh dear you have taken off like a scolded cat........Mike, how did your gear change go on the yellow notchback Roadster? To shreds you say?"

They are a manual gearbox not an auto. And they only really show up as slow if you haven't changed gear in advance of needing it. No different to a manual with a H gate really. ie if you are in 3rd and think I need 2nd and floor it there an then you manually won't have been able to shift any quicker. You'd have to complete the thought process, move your arm to the level, more your foot to the clutch pedal, physically change gear and release the clutch. With the smart people seem to think it should happen ahead of you thinking about it.

[300bhp/ton]

Whiters said:

Had a decent test drive in one when they first came out. Loved the concept and size (especially as I lived in London at the time) but the gearbox was so slow I just couldn't live with it. I don't think any one single element has ever ruined a test drive more for me, especially as the rest of the car was so up for it and capable. Intriguing little thing though.

You should have another go, but not in London, out in the countryside somewhere. Really the gearbox is not difficult to use and it does work. You just need to think about gearchanges in a different way and work with it, not against it.

[hairykrishna]

300bhp/ton said:

They are a manual gearbox not an auto. And they only really show up as slow if you haven't changed gear in advance of needing it. No different to a manual with a H gate really.

Are they the same gearboxes as in normal smart cars? Because if they are then this statement's completely off. I'd have time to change gear with a H gate manual, make myself a cup of coffee and complete a short novel in the time it took to swap cogs. Horrible things.

[300bhp/ton]

kambites said:

stephen300o said:

My Smart had plenty of storage, excellent steering...

Do you mean you had a non-standard rack, or just that you liked it as it was?

Compared to most modern PAS hatchbacks and even saloons like BMW's the steering on them isn't bad. Compared to an Elise it isn't good, but then not much is.

[300bhp/ton]

pits said:

pthelazyjourno said:

pits said:

Trust me, if you have ever driven a Smart Roadster towards a roundabout, with an oncoming truck, you will know exactly what I am on about.

It wasn't with regard to the comment itself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p3UEzPj4Sk

To shreds you say it was both a reference to the Smart leaving you in the lurch, and the truck hitting you...to shreds, and the oldness of Farnsworth doing the gear change from the moon.

That's only an issue if you are in the wrong gear and then expect it to magically sort it out for you. If you rolled up to a junction in 2nd gear in a manual car then instantly wanted 1st it wouldn't happen until you'd waved your arm about and pumped your leg = i.e. time.

Ok a proper auto can do select a gear quickly, but the Roadster isn't using an auto gearbox and it won't slip the clutch in 2nd like a person might in a regular manual. The fix however is very very simple, as you slow for the round about select 1st gear BEFORE you get there, then you have instant acceleration should you need it.

[300bhp/ton]

kambites said:

LuS1fer said:

You say practical but isn't this the one TG said had the luggage capacity to accommodate a small bag of potatoes?

I suspect that was the Roadster rather than the Roadster Coupe. They both have respectable space in the nose, though, from what I remember.

Front boot is fairly big and even in the Roadster (notchback) the rear boot is also quite usable too. We frequently fit an entire supermarket trolleys worth of stuff into ours.

Where it lacks is in cabin stowage, there's nowhere to put a phone or SatNav and glove box isn't big enough for gloves.

[rhinochopig]

300bhp/ton said:

kambites said:

LuS1fer said:

You say practical but isn't this the one TG said had the luggage capacity to accommodate a small bag of potatoes?

I suspect that was the Roadster rather than the Roadster Coupe. They both have respectable space in the nose, though, from what I remember.

Front boot is fairly big and even in the Roadster (notchback) the rear boot is also quite usable too. We frequently fit an entire supermarket trolleys worth of stuff into ours.

Where it lacks is in cabin stowage, there's nowhere to put a phone or SatNav and glove box isn't big enough for gloves.

Yeah, but using the brim of the Stetson as additional storage doesn't count

[pits]

300bhp/ton said:

pits said:

If they had a manual gearbox I would have one all day long, but with the quite frankly dreadful auto box which sends the change gear command to the Smart station based on the moon, where a man is awoken from a slumber to go "awuhwuh, 2nd you say? Oh my you're on a roundabout, how about 3rd? No 2nd? Neutral? Oh My you have full throttle, 1st gear...oh dear you have taken off like a scolded cat........Mike, how did your gear change go on the yellow notchback Roadster? To shreds you say?"

They are a manual gearbox not an auto. And they only really show up as slow if you haven't changed gear in advance of needing it. No different to a manual with a H gate really. ie if you are in 3rd and think I need 2nd and floor it there an then you manually won't have been able to shift any quicker. You'd have to complete the thought process, move your arm to the level, more your foot to the clutch pedal, physically change gear and release the clutch. With the smart people seem to think it should happen ahead of you thinking about it.

So what you're saying, when I am driving it in Automatic, coming up to a roundabout I should flick it into the sequential and change down? Not strike you as a bit daft doing that?

It is massively different from a H gate manual with a clutch because you're at the mercy of the electronics to find a gear, where as a normal manual with a clutch, you can change down quicker than the Smarts.....Have you ever driven one of these? It's not a case of thinking it should happen before you need to, just nothing happens, it either wants a proper auto box or a proper manual box with a clutch, as it stands it is completely useless, your idea of having to change down yourself is silly, either you have to use kick down and essentially accelerate into traffic, or knock it into flappy paddle, and still wait an age for it to decide what it is doing

[300bhp/ton]

hairykrishna said:

300bhp/ton said:

They are a manual gearbox not an auto. And they only really show up as slow if you haven't changed gear in advance of needing it. No different to a manual with a H gate really.

Are they the same gearboxes as in normal smart cars? Because if they are then this statement's completely off. I'd have time to change gear with a H gate manual, make myself a cup of coffee and complete a short novel in the time it took to swap cogs. Horrible things.

I believe they are the same 3 speed manual box with electronic overdrive as found in the ForTwo.

However when I drove mine to work this morning it changed geared perfectly quick enough, as I expect it will on the way home. And indeed every time I've driven since buying it some 30,000 miles ago.

I admit it's not the quickest change in the world, but it also isn't any slower than changing gear in a Defender or some 60's/70's sports car, nor any slower than the electronic over drive found on classic British sports cars like MGB's and Triumphs.

[Limpet]

I've never driven one, but I've always liked the look of them. It's always struck me as being one of those cars that has no excuse for NOT being fun to drive. Small, light, mid engined, and not particularly practical. How can it not be a laugh to drive?

[R8Steve]

300bhp/ton said:

Where it lacks is in cabin stowage, there's nowhere to put a phone or SatNav and glove box isn't big enough for gloves.

Sat nav fits in the small velcro tool compartment just behind the rear seats in the roadster, phone goes in your pocket as you obviously don't use it when driving

The gearbox is fine and has never been a problem for me, it's not much more annoying than the 911 turbo tip i had. As 300bhp/ton has said, you just need to adapt your driving style to get the best out it - pretty much like any other car really

[Roadster25]

Varn said:

I've driven (not owned) a couple of these - one was an early production car, the other late. The gearbox seemed much faster on the later version...did they change something? Some of the slow gearbox comments above seem to be about early production cars also.

Edited by Varn on Monday 3rd December 14:58

I believe there was a software update rolled out during services in 2006. I didn't notice it when mine was updated, but when I had a new SAM unit and reverted to the old software it was terrible!

TBH if you drive one reguarly you get used to the gearchange. You just need to be in the habit of thinking ahead a bit more. Giving it a helping hand by either lifting off or dabbing the throttle at the right moment helps a fair bit too.

KS54 FEV where are you now?

[300bhp/ton]

pits said:

So what you're saying, when I am driving it in Automatic, coming up to a roundabout I should flick it into the sequential and change down? Not strike you as a bit daft doing that?

Are you referring to an AUTOMATIC gearbox with a torque converter? If so, then no. But the Roadster doesn't use this type of box, they use a regular manual gearbox with a clutch, only the clutch is controlled by a solenoid not your leg. It might have an "auto" mode, but this doesn't make it an automatic.

In some ways it's version of the same type of thing found in an F355 F1. The Ferrari had quicker changes, but was very jerky and often problematic. The smart has slower changes but it smoother and generally more hassle free. Both can be dimwitted at times, but this is all part of learning how to drive them.

pits said:

It is massively different from a H gate manual with a clutch because you're at the mercy of the electronics to find a gear, where as a normal manual with a clutch, you can change down quicker than the Smarts.....

Yes it is different, but it's a fairly consistent difference. Which means you plan for it, so rather than waiting until you stop to try and find 1st (as you might with a normal manual), you need to downshift 10-15 feet earlier and use the downshift as part of your braking procedure. That way when you arrive at the round about it'll already be in gear ready to go.

pits said:

Have you ever driven one of these?

A smart or a regular H gate?

I've got a Roadster, it's my daily currently doing 72 miles a day commuting in it and will have owned it 3 years in Feb. Done over 30,000 miles in it so far.

H gates - yep own 3 and a proper 4 speed auto.

pits said:

It's not a case of thinking it should happen before you need to, just nothing happens, it either wants a proper auto box or a proper manual box with a clutch, as it stands it is completely useless, your idea of having to change down yourself is silly, either you have to use kick down and essentially accelerate into traffic, or knock it into flappy paddle, and still wait an age for it to decide what it is doing

???

Slightly confused with what you are saying tbh. It's a manual box with manual control but an automated clutch. The driver still decides when to change gear. The "auto" mode is for convenience and not for normal use (IMO).

A full auto may have worked, but would have zapped power and made it slower. And at the time for this price segment there weren't any 6 speed auto boxes, so you'd have likely ended up with a 4 speeder, which would have ruined performance even more due to gearing and ruined mpg.

A regular H gate might be a possibility, but tbh it's geared so shortly that I honestly think a H gate would be a hindrance. for instance, on smallish round abouts I might start off in 1st, but be in 4th by the time I exit (going straight over). To use a regular manual would mean one hand almost completely off the steering wheel. With the Roadster it's only a fraction of a second to bang the lever and let it get on with it (less if you have steering wheel paddles). Also the fact that I can perform 3 gear changes while crossing a small round about sort of shows it can't be that slow at changing gear.