RE: Driven: BMW M5 Manual

[Amirhussain]

Luca Brasi said:

Gorgeous.

Wasn't too sure of the looks on these when they first came out, but properly like them now, looks the business.

[kambites]

George111 said:

Does it really need to weigh two tonnes ? Is that correct ? I can't believe BMW made a sports car weighing two tonnes ?

They didn't; by no sensible stretch of the definition is this a sports car.

[MrTappets]

I've seen one of the American reviews of this (MotorTrend perhaps?) which said that the car was actually better with the paddles, as they suited the nature of the car better.

[E38Ross]

kambites said:

George111 said:

Does it really need to weigh two tonnes ? Is that correct ? I can't believe BMW made a sports car weighing two tonnes ?

They didn't; by no sensible stretch of the definition is this a sports car.

exactly. they made a very comfortable, refined and laden-with-creature-comforts big saloon car which goes very fast weigh that much.

[Gorbyrev]

Do you think if us Brits ask for a "stick shift" they will relent?
As for demand, every manufacturer will sell an auto for 10% of the market, why not manual gearboxes. I am sure if they charged the same as the dual clutch then BMW would even make a bit on the option. What is the betting that F430 manuals will be appreciably more valuable in years to come.

[thepony]

Gorbyrev said:

Do you think if us Brits ask for a "stick shift" they will relent?
As for demand, every manufacturer will sell an auto for 10% of the market, why not manual gearboxes. I am sure if they charged the same as the dual clutch then BMW would even make a bit on the option. What is the betting that F430 manuals will be appreciably more valuable in years to come.

I think F430 Manual and E92 M3 Manual will be worth a bit in years to come and hopefully the E46 M3 CS Coupe Manual :-)

[kett]

I think that M cars are probably considered "hardcore" in the US, so a manual option is fitting. In europe, the models are quintessentially uber-fast gin-palaces and the auto-only designation is (again) fitting.

[Mitch2.0]

It Blips the throttle on the way down, like the 370Z?

That is interesting, I wonder how many other manuals will be doing this? When it came along in the 370Z I thought it was a bit gimmicky to be honest, if you can't heal and toe then either learn, or getting the flappy paddle option. It seems with rev-matching manuals soon using all three pedals really will be gone with the way of double declutching.

[GroundEffect]

Gorbyrev said:

Do you think if us Brits ask for a "stick shift" they will relent?
As for demand, every manufacturer will sell an auto for 10% of the market, why not manual gearboxes. I am sure if they charged the same as the dual clutch then BMW would even make a bit on the option. What is the betting that F430 manuals will be appreciably more valuable in years to come.

I'm guessing that the US is a bigger market for M cars than Europe therefore it justifies the extra cost to develop a manual system (and dont forget its much more than just a different shifter).

A lot of calculations are put in to line ups. Well in advance. They choose a lineup from customer demand and actual sales. The M in the US must have still jusitified the expenses. A manual, car will be cheaper (cheaper box and cooling system) but it still demands development.

[George111]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Yes, iknow. The ultimate driving machine, a descendent of the M1 and M535i, the car BMW themselves call the pinnacle of of their engineering development . . . I was just surprised it weighs two tonnes.

[pjv997]

I was in the US on holiday last month and specced up an M5 on the configurator.

Manual is a no cost option. Spec for spec compared to UK prices was eye-opening. Difficult to get an exact match but it was amore than 25% cheaper than UK price and came with a four year warranty and servicing package.

[s m]

Urban Sports said:

I'd have thought the US market would be the worst place to sell a big manual saloon, I thought that about the e60 as well.

Seeing as they did a manual box in the U.S. on the E60, I wonder what the ratio of manual to auto boxes sold was for the V10 engine M5

[HighwayStar]

As has been pointed out earlier... Americans live their automatics but... When it comes to the M cars the demand a manual because they see it as euro cool, sophisticated. Hardcore and yeah I can drive stick. It separates them from the pack.
This latest M5 is the last that will be available to the US with a manual box. BMW have already stated the next M5 will be, in all markets, DCT only.

[Hellbound]

Americans got it the wrong way round really. They loved Auto's when they were considered slow, thirsty and cumbersome by European standards. Now Auto boxes perform better and are arguably far superior at getting you from point A to point B, American hipsters are all over the 'stick shift'.

The M5 with DCT seems like the most sensible choice. Your track car or cars are stored away in your garage, so you really don't want to be shifting a gear stick when you're on your way home after a long day at work.

[TomTVR500]

This is the world I want to live in! Fast cars with manual gearboxes.

It took me back about 10 years reading an article about a new supercar with a proper gearbox.

I find myelf more excited by the idea of owning a Megane 265 Cup than almost all the new supercars just because the manual gearbox makes that much difference to my enjoyment of a car.

Please sell it over here BMW!

[kambites]

Hellbound said:

The M5 with DCT seems like the most sensible choice.

A 520d would be the "sensible choice".

[tomoleeds]

seems strange why they sell a manual in usa,when 90% of cars are auto??,and in britain where we sell mostly stick shift we dont get the option,does not bother me i cant afford a 60-70k car ,anyway

[GraemeLambert]

jon- said:

em177 said:

Surely sending over Harris for a video review would have been appropriate?

Or at least giving the driver a mic so he could give us a bit of banter. And perhaps an SLR, instead of shooting on a go pro. I guess the video was an after thought.

Agreed chaps, but Harris was busy doing other things, so you'll have to make do with me.

As for the SLR/GoPro and a mic idea - also agreed. It wasn't really an afterthought, more an added extra though - I shot the video you see with one GoPro in the 15mins I had to deliver the M5 to the next eagerly awaiting journalist. As time was limited and therefore proper editing of hours of footage not possible, I elected not to talk to the camera and leave my thoughts to the article.

But if someone wants to supply me with a decent SLR to shoot video on then I'll happily use one

As I said, the vid should be viewed as bonus, rather than a focus.

G

[Chunkychucky]

kambites said:

I'm not sure, but they definitely seem to. I've never driven an EFI car with genuinely good throttle response.

That'll most likely be due to differing fly-by-wire systems, IMO absolute crap compared to a good old fashioned cable.. Plus for carbs, having driven a variety of carb-fed classics, they work to a varying degree, although never quite as instantly with EFI, plus with Webers they're forever needing tweaking with (IMO experience of course)

[Zod]

kambites said:

Better than the automatic version we get here, but still doesn't remotely appeal to me.

Change the record, mad. It's just so dull seeing you post against every BMW thread how whichever car it is doesn't appeal to you You've been doing it for years.