RE: Spotted: Alfa 147 GTA
Discussion
Guvernator said:
To be honest I take all internet mpg figures with a pinch of salt as they are always coloured by the persons viewpoint. A fan\owner of the car will tell you their 3 litre petrol car does 40mpg in town and 60mpg on a run (it's not really their fault, it's man maths at work) whereas someone who hates it will tell you his mate down the pub has one and it does 7mpg when driven sensibly so the best bet is to take an average of the two and you'll be somewhere close to the truth 
Yep, there is a lot of cobblers spoken by people with vested interests.But my recent experiences of mpg on my own cars are as follows:
2002 2.5 V6 Alfa: 27mpg (over 20,000 mixed miles)
1996 Nissan Micra 998: 42mpg
2006 Suzuki Jimny: 32mpg
2007 Ford Ka: 36mpg
1996 Jeep Cherokee 4.0: 19mpg
I am really disappointed by the Jimny, but the mud tyres don't help.
The Ka was very disappointing.
The Jeep was pretty much what I expected, but varied hugely, with low teens around town and 24mpg possible on a run.
The Alfa V6 is pretty good all things considered.
PowerfullyBuilt said:
I've put a Q2 diff on my 2.0l 147
Curious as to how you did this as the Q2 only fits cars with a six-speed 'box.I had a rare Nuvola Bianca 147 GTA for 3 years and it was a fantastic car. I had the Q2 fitted and a remap to free up a few more horses and give a bit more torque lower down. Standard suspension is a bit crashy but on the right road the GTA is immense fun. I seriously regret selling that car.
Olivera said:
I've only driven a 2.5 V6 version, but if I'm honest I found the Busso pretty mediocre by today's standards. They sound good and like any NA engine have good throttle response, but are comprehensively beaten in power, torque and mpg by any modern remapped 2.0l turbo.
Though I agree with you, the reason I love the busso v6 is because it is exactly the opposite of a modern turbo'ed car. It gives more towards the top end of the rev range (rewards right upto 7200rpm). I honestly don't want a torque monster as I prefer to rag the nuts off an engine when I am in the mood, and because the busso sounds so good, it is always a pleasure.. It has excellent throttle response.
I couldn't care less about the mpg as I don't drive that many miles in it.
This is how it sounds with the wizard exhaust...
Alfa Romeo GTV V6 Wizard Quad Exhaust - YouTube Stationary
Alfa Romeo GTV V6 Wizard Quad Exhaust - YouTube Drive By
mrpbailey said:
10?? Really?? I find that extremely hard to believe!
Having owned mine for over 2 years and 20k miles I generally average around low 20's around town, and high 20's on a motorway run, 30mpg is possible if you sit at 70 all the way. Generally £80 of super gets me around 300 miles.
Did a trip to Spa and the Nurburgring earlier this year, 1500 miles hardly hanging around, including 4 laps of the ring and half hour round spa track, and averaged 23mpg for the trip.
Not cheap to run by any means though. In 28 months I've spent about £6.5k on servicing and a few mods (exhaust, suspension). Cambelt service alone was £800. But in all fairness I've probably done bits of maintenance that weren't exactly 'essential right now', but I do like my cars to be spot on. Then there's 20k miles worth of petrol to go on top of that.
Only ever had to add about half a litre of oil every 10k miles or so.
Forgot to mention the sound.........Having owned mine for over 2 years and 20k miles I generally average around low 20's around town, and high 20's on a motorway run, 30mpg is possible if you sit at 70 all the way. Generally £80 of super gets me around 300 miles.
Did a trip to Spa and the Nurburgring earlier this year, 1500 miles hardly hanging around, including 4 laps of the ring and half hour round spa track, and averaged 23mpg for the trip.
Not cheap to run by any means though. In 28 months I've spent about £6.5k on servicing and a few mods (exhaust, suspension). Cambelt service alone was £800. But in all fairness I've probably done bits of maintenance that weren't exactly 'essential right now', but I do like my cars to be spot on. Then there's 20k miles worth of petrol to go on top of that.
Only ever had to add about half a litre of oil every 10k miles or so.
It sounds like this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Qa2xwgMja0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFdgokcIrWg
strangehighways said:
Though I agree with you, the reason I love the busso v6 is because it is exactly the opposite of a modern turbo'ed car. It gives more towards the top end of the rev range (rewards right upto 7200rpm). I honestly don't want a torque monster as I prefer to rag the nuts off an engine when I am in the mood, and because the busso sounds so good, it is always a pleasure..
The 24v is certainly a bit peakier than the 12v, but not exactly lacking in torque itself!The 12v V6 has bags of low down torque - I had a 12v Cloverleaf 164 a few years ago (one of many, in fact), and it's party trick was that it would pull away from stationary at tickover, with no throttle, in fifth! So, from standstill to 147 mph in one gear.
Impressive!
mrpbailey said:
Forgot to mention the sound.........
It sounds like this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Qa2xwgMja0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFdgokcIrWg
TBH, it sounds terrible with the decat It sounds like this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Qa2xwgMja0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFdgokcIrWg
Mine did too:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhuGVAQawDo
Doesn't sound too bad without any load....:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvujkT5GR3E
But sounded like crap on the move. Far better noise with the cats in place. All IMO, of course.
Edited by MattyB_ on Saturday 15th December 22:20
Pat H said:
Guvernator said:
To be honest I take all internet mpg figures with a pinch of salt as they are always coloured by the persons viewpoint. A fan\owner of the car will tell you their 3 litre petrol car does 40mpg in town and 60mpg on a run (it's not really their fault, it's man maths at work) whereas someone who hates it will tell you his mate down the pub has one and it does 7mpg when driven sensibly so the best bet is to take an average of the two and you'll be somewhere close to the truth
Yep, there is a lot of cobblers spoken by people with vested interests.But my recent experiences of mpg on my own cars are as follows:
2002 2.5 V6 Alfa: 27mpg (over 20,000 mixed miles)
1996 Nissan Micra 998: 42mpg
2006 Suzuki Jimny: 32mpg
2007 Ford Ka: 36mpg
1996 Jeep Cherokee 4.0: 19mpg
I am really disappointed by the Jimny, but the mud tyres don't help.
The Ka was very disappointing.
The Jeep was pretty much what I expected, but varied hugely, with low teens around town and 24mpg possible on a run.
The Alfa V6 is pretty good all things considered.
strangehighways said:
Olivera said:
I've only driven a 2.5 V6 version, but if I'm honest I found the Busso pretty mediocre by today's standards. They sound good and like any NA engine have good throttle response, but are comprehensively beaten in power, torque and mpg by any modern remapped 2.0l turbo.
Though I agree with you, the reason I love the busso v6 is because it is exactly the opposite of a modern turbo'ed car. It gives more towards the top end of the rev range (rewards right upto 7200rpm). I honestly don't want a torque monster as I prefer to rag the nuts off an engine when I am in the mood, and because the busso sounds so good, it is always a pleasure.. It has excellent throttle response.
I couldn't care less about the mpg as I don't drive that many miles in it.
This is how it sounds with the wizard exhaust...
Alfa Romeo GTV V6 Wizard Quad Exhaust - YouTube Stationary
Alfa Romeo GTV V6 Wizard Quad Exhaust - YouTube Drive By
How did I miss this thread! you wait ages for a 'spotted GTA' and then, well completely miss it until two weeks after it's happened!
Great fun reading through all the MPG and chassis comments. Mine has been 'sorted' ARBS, Front Brace, Eibachs, Q2, brakes, sticky tyres, clutch etc., although it is having to cope with 350+ bhp now since the supercharger conversion. This may also explain the ability to get an impressive 3.9 mpg on sprint days. To be fair under careful driving conditions it will do something in the 20's but if I was worried about mpg I would have bought a 1.0 ecohatch (and a paper bag).
I always thought it handled OK, the only time I have had any trouble is when the VDC/ABS stuff all turns itself off by surprise (well it was a surprise to me anyway). I don't mind driving with it off but I would rather make that choice.
To whomever did Spa on this thread, I did it in July this year and it was fantastic, going back again next year without a doubt (celebrate 10 years of ownership!)
Great fun reading through all the MPG and chassis comments. Mine has been 'sorted' ARBS, Front Brace, Eibachs, Q2, brakes, sticky tyres, clutch etc., although it is having to cope with 350+ bhp now since the supercharger conversion. This may also explain the ability to get an impressive 3.9 mpg on sprint days. To be fair under careful driving conditions it will do something in the 20's but if I was worried about mpg I would have bought a 1.0 ecohatch (and a paper bag).
I always thought it handled OK, the only time I have had any trouble is when the VDC/ABS stuff all turns itself off by surprise (well it was a surprise to me anyway). I don't mind driving with it off but I would rather make that choice.
To whomever did Spa on this thread, I did it in July this year and it was fantastic, going back again next year without a doubt (celebrate 10 years of ownership!)
For my money, as someone who has owned some very good cars previously and now own an Alfa 147 gta, Alfa ownership is a massive disappointment.
The car even though bought from a dealer with genuine 10k on the clock has cost me 10k in 3 years.
I do not get the special alfa thing at all.
Unreliable junk and not that appealing in the looks department.
Alfa dealer and factory support is crap beyond belief.
I would never buy one again and sincerely regret buying this.
If only I had kept my 964 rs, now there was a car with character that was special and reliable.
The car even though bought from a dealer with genuine 10k on the clock has cost me 10k in 3 years.
I do not get the special alfa thing at all.
Unreliable junk and not that appealing in the looks department.
Alfa dealer and factory support is crap beyond belief.
I would never buy one again and sincerely regret buying this.
If only I had kept my 964 rs, now there was a car with character that was special and reliable.
daredd said:
For my money, as someone who has owned some very good cars previously and now own an Alfa 147 gta, Alfa ownership is a massive disappointment.
The car even though bought from a dealer with genuine 10k on the clock has cost me 10k in 3 years.
I do not get the special alfa thing at all.
Unreliable junk and not that appealing in the looks department.
Alfa dealer and factory support is crap beyond belief.
I would never buy one again and sincerely regret buying this.
If only I had kept my 964 rs, now there was a car with character that was special and reliable.
Wow that is a mahoosive sum, what did the 10k go on?The car even though bought from a dealer with genuine 10k on the clock has cost me 10k in 3 years.
I do not get the special alfa thing at all.
Unreliable junk and not that appealing in the looks department.
Alfa dealer and factory support is crap beyond belief.
I would never buy one again and sincerely regret buying this.
If only I had kept my 964 rs, now there was a car with character that was special and reliable.
I had my GTV V6 for about 1.5 years and it cost me about £1k but that was for the big ticket items like clutch/cambelt, battery and little radio coil pack thing that wraps around the steering wheel cowl to pick up the immob signal.
The 147 is normally even more sturdy, although the GTA's have been known to eat their standard diffs, but otherwise the usual suspension squeaking (not mega bucks), cambelts every 4 years or 60k regardless of mileage. The selespeeds are more troublesome, but only £200 for a new pump plus about an hours labour (well it was on my 4200). E.t.c....my point being 10k points to massive lemon.
Why on Gods Green Earth would you rely on the dealer network/Alfa UK for support? It's akin to asking Assad for advice on international relations: it's not going to yield best results.
IME (with GTAs, Tis and the like) is that as soon as you're out of and far, far away from said dealer chain, things improve immeasurably.
IME (with GTAs, Tis and the like) is that as soon as you're out of and far, far away from said dealer chain, things improve immeasurably.
Jimbo. said:
Why on Gods Green Earth would you rely on the dealer network/Alfa UK for support? It's akin to asking Assad for advice on international relations: it's not going to yield best results.
IME (with GTAs, Tis and the like) is that as soon as you're out of and far, far away from said dealer chain, things improve immeasurably.
I have a vast amount of Alfa experience. There are some fantastic indies out there, there are some sIME (with GTAs, Tis and the like) is that as soon as you're out of and far, far away from said dealer chain, things improve immeasurably.
t ones too. The same goes for the dealer network. My Giulietta was supplied and is maintained by Variava's in Nottingham, they are a main dealer and they've been fantastic!Wow that is a mahoosive sum, what did the 10k go on?
The car has now done 64,000 miles.
I have probably missed some items off this list but I think you get the idea.
The upper and lower arms have had to be replaced twice.
The rear control arms.
2 radiators.
New battery.
Coolant pipe severely corroded below radiator.
Alarm unit faulty.
Rear hatchback alarm switch faulty.
Differential exploded, requiring Q2 diff, new clutch, recon gear box.
Ballast replacement.
Cam belt broke at 54,000 and 3 years - told Alfa and they politely told me to go 'F' myself despite the servicing being up to date and the cam belt originally being replaced by a dealer at 10,000 miles. Cost 2,500.
Clutch slave cylinder.
I always treat my cars with TLC.
The list of vehicles I have owned is pretty decent:
Ford Capri 2.0s.
BMW 728i.
VW Golf GTI 16v - 3 of these.
VW Golf V6 4motion - dull beyond belief.
Audi RS4 B5 - very fast but they forgot to fit decent brakes.
Porsche 911 Targa 1989 - good but a little agricultural.
Porsche 964 RS (330bhp RUF modified) - amazing but impractical on the roads.
Porsche 968 CS - brilliant car but half an inch of snow and it does not go anywhere.
Peugeot 106 GTI (LAD tuned to 160bhp) - amazing go kart.
Renault Sport Clio 182 - superb and cheap as chips.
Renault Clio Sport V6 255 - superb, just like an old 911.
Audi S-Line 2.0 TDI 140 bhp - dull, dull, dull, like driving a corpse.
I bought the GTA originally for my wife. Good job she did not like it as I would be in the divorce court by now given all the aggravation I have had with it.
The only truly unreliable car I have had is this Alfa. Bad experiences outside of this car have been down to shoddy service from dealers.
The car has now done 64,000 miles.
I have probably missed some items off this list but I think you get the idea.
The upper and lower arms have had to be replaced twice.
The rear control arms.
2 radiators.
New battery.
Coolant pipe severely corroded below radiator.
Alarm unit faulty.
Rear hatchback alarm switch faulty.
Differential exploded, requiring Q2 diff, new clutch, recon gear box.
Ballast replacement.
Cam belt broke at 54,000 and 3 years - told Alfa and they politely told me to go 'F' myself despite the servicing being up to date and the cam belt originally being replaced by a dealer at 10,000 miles. Cost 2,500.
Clutch slave cylinder.
I always treat my cars with TLC.
The list of vehicles I have owned is pretty decent:
Ford Capri 2.0s.
BMW 728i.
VW Golf GTI 16v - 3 of these.
VW Golf V6 4motion - dull beyond belief.
Audi RS4 B5 - very fast but they forgot to fit decent brakes.
Porsche 911 Targa 1989 - good but a little agricultural.
Porsche 964 RS (330bhp RUF modified) - amazing but impractical on the roads.
Porsche 968 CS - brilliant car but half an inch of snow and it does not go anywhere.
Peugeot 106 GTI (LAD tuned to 160bhp) - amazing go kart.
Renault Sport Clio 182 - superb and cheap as chips.
Renault Clio Sport V6 255 - superb, just like an old 911.
Audi S-Line 2.0 TDI 140 bhp - dull, dull, dull, like driving a corpse.
I bought the GTA originally for my wife. Good job she did not like it as I would be in the divorce court by now given all the aggravation I have had with it.
The only truly unreliable car I have had is this Alfa. Bad experiences outside of this car have been down to shoddy service from dealers.
I think you have been a bit unlucky there.
You did however make 3 vital errors,
1. Not changing the cambelt at 40k or 4 years whichever is sooner, 72k/5yrs that alfa quote is widely discredited as nonsense.
2. You didn't fit a Q2 as soon as you bought the car, this would have transformed the handling and saved the gearbox
These 2 alone i would imagine accounted for more than half of you're outlay, and
3. You used main dealers, most are diabolical to deal with. I can't imagine anyone taking a GTA to one now, well certainly since 2008 or so when the last ones would have been out of warranty.
You did however make 3 vital errors,
1. Not changing the cambelt at 40k or 4 years whichever is sooner, 72k/5yrs that alfa quote is widely discredited as nonsense.
2. You didn't fit a Q2 as soon as you bought the car, this would have transformed the handling and saved the gearbox
These 2 alone i would imagine accounted for more than half of you're outlay, and
3. You used main dealers, most are diabolical to deal with. I can't imagine anyone taking a GTA to one now, well certainly since 2008 or so when the last ones would have been out of warranty.
daredd said:
Lots of expensive stuff.
You have been very unlucky indeed.I have owned an old 156 2.5 V6 for the last three years.
Over the last 30,000 miles it has cost me a set of pads, a pair of front discs and a set of anti roll bar drop links.
It is, however, now due a cambelt change.
Petrol aside, it has been very cheap to run.
It is far from the most exotic or expensive car that I've owned. It certainly isn't the best built. And the brakes, handling, turning circle and ground clearance are all poor.
But is probably my favourite car of all.
I much prefer it to either of the 3.2 GTVs that I've had.
ITP said:
I think you have been a bit unlucky there.
You did however make 3 vital errors,
1. Not changing the cambelt at 40k or 4 years whichever is sooner, 72k/5yrs that alfa quote is widely discredited as nonsense.
Now I know. However what legal come back is there when you follow recommended service intervals and the thing still goes wrong?
2. You didn't fit a Q2 as soon as you bought the car, this would have transformed the handling and saved the gearbox
I drove it as from factory and it was pretty much unusable as there was no way you could put the power down or go around corners with any surety. Much better car now. Just need new wheels - 18 inch and wider lower profile rubber, better suspension (not coilovers), front and rear strut brace and thorough rust proofing.
3. You used main dealers, most are diabolical to deal with. I can't imagine anyone taking a GTA to one now, well certainly since 2008 or so when the last ones would have been out of warranty.
I used the main dealer once - Guest Alfa Romeo (Knowle), now Johnsons (Shirley)(seems they just bought the staff and the 'goodwill'). Cost me 800 quid. Told them I had 5 problems with the car, provided copious notes as to the problems. They lent me a car that leaked diesel fumes into the cabin and told me to drive with the windows down to minimise the problem. Upon return all 5 problems still existed after having the car 5 days. Also upon collection they told me that my tyres needed replacing and had not even had the foresight to earn more money by notifying me prior to me collecting the car.You did however make 3 vital errors,
1. Not changing the cambelt at 40k or 4 years whichever is sooner, 72k/5yrs that alfa quote is widely discredited as nonsense.
Now I know. However what legal come back is there when you follow recommended service intervals and the thing still goes wrong?
2. You didn't fit a Q2 as soon as you bought the car, this would have transformed the handling and saved the gearbox
I drove it as from factory and it was pretty much unusable as there was no way you could put the power down or go around corners with any surety. Much better car now. Just need new wheels - 18 inch and wider lower profile rubber, better suspension (not coilovers), front and rear strut brace and thorough rust proofing.
3. You used main dealers, most are diabolical to deal with. I can't imagine anyone taking a GTA to one now, well certainly since 2008 or so when the last ones would have been out of warranty.
Since this I have been going to Simply Alfas in Stourbridge.
Anyway I am now 'invested' in the car and will see this thing out until it or myself fall apart. :-)
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