RE: PH Blog: rain stops play
Discussion
Obviously at this distance I can't know if your Chris Harris is just a bit of a kid, with no knowledge of past motoring, a bloke who likes to write smart ass comments, he thinks are funny, or is a poor history student, but I'm here to refute the Nasturtium, [yes I know, but I think that's funny], he has cast at the poor Ford Anglia.
He probably has no ideas that the Ford Anglia was one of the better wet weather cars of it's day. It was so good that there was a whole industry stuffing the engines from crashed Cortinas into them. That some could malign the Anglia, while praising that horrible box from BMC, the mini was hard to believe.
Not that I disliked the profits to be aquired from the Mini.
In the day, the first thing I did after a really wet night, or weekend, was check the stock of mini steering racks at my exchange reconditioned steering & suspension business. I knew there would be a rush of minis, & their big brothers, the Cooper & S, in for replacement racks.
The tendency of Minis to understeer off the road, into a curb, bending racks & suspensions, when roads were even damp, paid a very large part of the cost of my F2 Brabham Cosworth running costs.
The thing I found most amusing was that the Cooper S drivers in particular, would be telling you how well their thing handled, while paying for often their second or third replacement rack. It was only the thought of all the money I was making that enabled me to keep a straight face.
Not only is the Anglia on crossply tyres, in the wet, about as much fun as you can have with your clothes on, the wizard little thing can fly. I know 'cos I saw it in a movie.
In closing I must say I admire your British sense of humour. You've lost your empire, your industry, & much else, but boy didn't you get your own back.
How on earth you conned the rest of the world into making that horrible box on wheels, the Mini, the template for most cars, for the next 50 years, I have no idea. No wonder so many of you spend your nights chuckling into your warm pints. The rest of the world build these dreadful things, & you drive BMWs. The irony is overwhelming.
He probably has no ideas that the Ford Anglia was one of the better wet weather cars of it's day. It was so good that there was a whole industry stuffing the engines from crashed Cortinas into them. That some could malign the Anglia, while praising that horrible box from BMC, the mini was hard to believe.
Not that I disliked the profits to be aquired from the Mini.
In the day, the first thing I did after a really wet night, or weekend, was check the stock of mini steering racks at my exchange reconditioned steering & suspension business. I knew there would be a rush of minis, & their big brothers, the Cooper & S, in for replacement racks.
The tendency of Minis to understeer off the road, into a curb, bending racks & suspensions, when roads were even damp, paid a very large part of the cost of my F2 Brabham Cosworth running costs.
The thing I found most amusing was that the Cooper S drivers in particular, would be telling you how well their thing handled, while paying for often their second or third replacement rack. It was only the thought of all the money I was making that enabled me to keep a straight face.
Not only is the Anglia on crossply tyres, in the wet, about as much fun as you can have with your clothes on, the wizard little thing can fly. I know 'cos I saw it in a movie.
In closing I must say I admire your British sense of humour. You've lost your empire, your industry, & much else, but boy didn't you get your own back.
How on earth you conned the rest of the world into making that horrible box on wheels, the Mini, the template for most cars, for the next 50 years, I have no idea. No wonder so many of you spend your nights chuckling into your warm pints. The rest of the world build these dreadful things, & you drive BMWs. The irony is overwhelming.
Edited by Hasbeen on Thursday 3rd January 03:46
Bit of a divide in opinion on this subject, I can say with a fair bit of experience that it's all to do with the car.
I had a drive in the rents XKR-RS on some winter rubber (I'll find further info on what spec shortly) and that was a f*!@ing nightmare in the wet, and by wet I mean relatively damp weather. The back end would squirm at anything over 10-15% of throttle making for some "fun" driving but altogether entirely too unpredictable for the road.
In stark contrast the Integra is happy to spin up the fronts without too much fanfare and continue in the direction of travel without gyrating the rear. Otherwise it's relatively happy cruising at about 70-80% of the usual speed when the weather takes a turn for the worst.
I can almost without uncertainty say that it's down to the car, characteristics and how unruly it feels in the wet. I wouldn't get more than 30-40% out of the Jag in the wet, so you can see the difference...
I had a drive in the rents XKR-RS on some winter rubber (I'll find further info on what spec shortly) and that was a f*!@ing nightmare in the wet, and by wet I mean relatively damp weather. The back end would squirm at anything over 10-15% of throttle making for some "fun" driving but altogether entirely too unpredictable for the road.
In stark contrast the Integra is happy to spin up the fronts without too much fanfare and continue in the direction of travel without gyrating the rear. Otherwise it's relatively happy cruising at about 70-80% of the usual speed when the weather takes a turn for the worst.
I can almost without uncertainty say that it's down to the car, characteristics and how unruly it feels in the wet. I wouldn't get more than 30-40% out of the Jag in the wet, so you can see the difference...
glm1977 said:
i think the biggest factor that makes people reduce their speed in the wet is actually not the car or the lack of performance but rather the reduction in visibility.
I think a lot of people don't realise the benefit of having decent/new wiper blades and the difference it makes.
Couple the reduction in visibility by the rain on the glass, glare from shiny roads, less light and possibly poor eyesight / effect of cataracts etc in low light conditions, I think it's understandable that people travel at a pace they are comfortable at.I think a lot of people don't realise the benefit of having decent/new wiper blades and the difference it makes.
Only 3rd of January and already a strong contender for
"worst piece of motoring journalism 2013".
Do you know what the first "DRIVE" video of 2013 should
be? I'd like to see the young, fruity and rather well off
lad, that Harris still feels to be, not in a rented 4Wd Porker
but in something else: This:
It is called the "mobilistrictor" and used in product design
for the elder generation.
I'd love to see him steer his average neighbours 6 year old Vauxhall
an Halfords Winter tires, on its first set of bushes and shock absorbers
through the puddles while wearing that on a dawning day, trying to gain
some vision behind the 100K miles scratched front screen.
I'd volunteer to impersonate the young gun in a rented AWD Porker behind him, who
uses the full LED beam to bring some more mirror glare and reflections into play...
Happy New year Monkey !
Martin 480 Turbo
"worst piece of motoring journalism 2013".
Do you know what the first "DRIVE" video of 2013 should
be? I'd like to see the young, fruity and rather well off
lad, that Harris still feels to be, not in a rented 4Wd Porker
but in something else: This:
It is called the "mobilistrictor" and used in product design
for the elder generation.
I'd love to see him steer his average neighbours 6 year old Vauxhall
an Halfords Winter tires, on its first set of bushes and shock absorbers
through the puddles while wearing that on a dawning day, trying to gain
some vision behind the 100K miles scratched front screen.
I'd volunteer to impersonate the young gun in a rented AWD Porker behind him, who
uses the full LED beam to bring some more mirror glare and reflections into play...
Happy New year Monkey !
Martin 480 Turbo
I fully agree with Chris, in a sort of way, I read it like the average motorist hasn't a bloody clue about their speed which I think is the big problem. A wet road is just an example of a type of situation these numties drive in.
The best one from the Christmas period was a car going on the wrong side of the road on a blind bend to miss a puddle, I hit the breaks give give a very large gap incase of a head on :-S, then drove though it with caution.
I see handfulls of people each day who are not aware of anything thats going on around them, including speed, the idiot that does 40mph on a 60mph limited B road but continues to do that through a village with a 30 limit, these people will dawdle come rain or shine, and guaranteed to flash you if you dare overtake.
The best one from the Christmas period was a car going on the wrong side of the road on a blind bend to miss a puddle, I hit the breaks give give a very large gap incase of a head on :-S, then drove though it with caution.
I see handfulls of people each day who are not aware of anything thats going on around them, including speed, the idiot that does 40mph on a 60mph limited B road but continues to do that through a village with a 30 limit, these people will dawdle come rain or shine, and guaranteed to flash you if you dare overtake.
I agree to an extent, I too having had to endure the glut of 'less frequent' road users.
My solution is to drive when they don't - late or small hours - and the roads are empty.
Interesting to read the post about using the XKR (sorry, didn't catch your ID) - I bet the 30-40% you'd use is still way way over anything more 'average' on the road; my various munich products all felt way under their limit at comfortably over where m'lud says I should be, dry or wet, where as the current wolfsburg diesel lump just can't get anywhere near that.
Top job stirring up some emotion early in the year, Harris ;-)
My solution is to drive when they don't - late or small hours - and the roads are empty.
Interesting to read the post about using the XKR (sorry, didn't catch your ID) - I bet the 30-40% you'd use is still way way over anything more 'average' on the road; my various munich products all felt way under their limit at comfortably over where m'lud says I should be, dry or wet, where as the current wolfsburg diesel lump just can't get anywhere near that.
Top job stirring up some emotion early in the year, Harris ;-)
Spyder3400 said:
Compared to last week the French Autoroute-ers were perfectly happy trundling along at the usual pace despite savage standing water, rain and thick mists kicked up by lorries, not to mention able to use correct lanes and maintain sensible speeds.
The quality of the tarmac has a huge influence. On the French autoroutes, it's often "spongy" or "vented" (hope you get what I mean) and is able to extract water, which make them quite safe even under heavy rain.2blackhats said:
If it were just water on the roads, then in theory wet grip is not far off dry grip....but....add in some other real world ingredients like diesel, leaves, mud, dead cats and all the other oomska that coats your average lane and that theoretical wet grip becomes just that - theoretical. Personally I think slowing down in wet conditions is extremely prudent.
Completely agree! Also with folks bimbling around at 35mph in NSL zones, it just means the overtakes are swifter and safer as it all happens at a lower speed. Took my 1M to Wales last week and it was absolutely fine zipping past the dawdlers. All it takes is a little more patience for a safe gap where you can pop 'round.Spyder3400 said:
If the winter tyre thing does catch on in the UK perhaps things may improve as people feel more secure in wet weather?
In my view this only adds to the problem. We're already far too reliant on our nice fat tyres' grip, the abs, the traction control, the abrasive surfaces on sharp bends and roundabouts etc, etc.I was a passenger on a wet track day a couple of years ago where a bloke completely wrote off his pride and joy immediately behind us because he had no idea (IMO) of the boundaries of his car. It looked like he got it into a position that the electronics couldn't save until he was past the point of no return, at which point the grip returned at the rear end and he launched himself rather spectacularly into the tyre wall on the inside of the corner.
Those technological enhancements that statistically make the roads safer actually dumb down the skill of drivers and are in my view (rather perversely) making the roads a more dangerous place.
EDIT - that doesn't read right... what I'm suggesting is that the drivers of today in their cossetted cars with bags of mechanical grip, ABS, ESP, are more dangerous than their counterparts from 30 years ago (at same age and experience ofc), whilst the effect of these technological enhancements are probably suggesting the trend is in the other direction. It is, but if you take the enhancements out of the equation, the story would be completely different.
Edited by masermartin on Thursday 3rd January 15:30
Im not sure what the point of this article is.
what are we saying exactly, everyone should drive a little quicker so that petrolheads can carry on hooning around?
ridiculous!
I must be one of the slow coaches mentioned, my csl on pilot cups - i should just be braver?!
A more general observation is that the natural feeling that most fwd cars give in the wet would be wheelspin and understeer, and it just doesn't instill confidence in Joe slow.
what are we saying exactly, everyone should drive a little quicker so that petrolheads can carry on hooning around?
ridiculous!
I must be one of the slow coaches mentioned, my csl on pilot cups - i should just be braver?!
A more general observation is that the natural feeling that most fwd cars give in the wet would be wheelspin and understeer, and it just doesn't instill confidence in Joe slow.
IMO, the issue is not one of absolute speed persay, more one of monospeed. The average driver in a quiet, well insulated modern car has not been trained to have any feel or understanding for either the dynamics of their car, or to be able to "read the road" ahead. Hence, they simply choose what they feel to be a single appropriate speed (usually approx 50% of the limit in a fairly arbitary fashion) and drive at that speed everywhere. Add in the complete inability to overtake and the modern penchant for just "sheeping" close to the car ahead, and you have a recipe for frustration and eventually dangerous overtakes etc.
I recently used the A420 from Swindon to Oxford, a nice wide, generally well sighted road that has been hit with a blanket 50mph limit because no doubt, someone who wasn't looking where they were going managed to remove themselves from the gene pool. And? I never got out of 4th gear. Add in the general malayse of Christmas drivers, poor weather, busy roads, and the maximum speed i hit between Swindon and Oxford was 34mph. DOH! To add insult to injury, when we finally reached the only bit of dual carriageway where overtaking is easily possible, some overtaking lane hogger was sitting next to a truck, doing exactly the same speed as said truck and so no-one could get past.
Now, people have every right to drive at a speed they see fit, i have nothing bad to say about that, but they should not drive in a fashion that inconvieniences other motorists. If you want to dawdle along, great, but please do so in the appopriate lane, leaving a suitable gap, so those of us who do want to get on with our lives before we are shipped off to die a long slow depressing lingering death in a rancid old peoples home can do so!!!!!
I recently used the A420 from Swindon to Oxford, a nice wide, generally well sighted road that has been hit with a blanket 50mph limit because no doubt, someone who wasn't looking where they were going managed to remove themselves from the gene pool. And? I never got out of 4th gear. Add in the general malayse of Christmas drivers, poor weather, busy roads, and the maximum speed i hit between Swindon and Oxford was 34mph. DOH! To add insult to injury, when we finally reached the only bit of dual carriageway where overtaking is easily possible, some overtaking lane hogger was sitting next to a truck, doing exactly the same speed as said truck and so no-one could get past.
Now, people have every right to drive at a speed they see fit, i have nothing bad to say about that, but they should not drive in a fashion that inconvieniences other motorists. If you want to dawdle along, great, but please do so in the appopriate lane, leaving a suitable gap, so those of us who do want to get on with our lives before we are shipped off to die a long slow depressing lingering death in a rancid old peoples home can do so!!!!!
SturdyHSV said:
Given most people's level of interest in driving, it's a miracle they even noticed it's raining, especially when they've got so many calls to make, coffees to drink, make-up to apply, kids to shout at, mobile domestics to have, songs to sing, hair to adjust, bogies to mine, balls to scratch, texts to send, e-mails to respond to and scary car machinery to operate. And all this whilst their Q7 is skimming about on £35 a corner LingLangs and they have to concentrate enough already on breathing in and out...
Funny, but sadly also truexRIEx said:
Mr. Potato Head said:
arris said:
MX-5s. *snipped* your chances of enjoying that loose chassis are low to zero..
What a load of rubbish.My mk1 MR2 used to be charmingly sideways when following commuter traffic at 30mph.
spad78 said:
Poor article from a journalist with whom I often share views and whom I believe often articulates them more clearly than in this example.
Totally agree. My cars given to me by work, its a diesel Astra estate i'm guessing its fairly representative of the state of mid size mass market cars. i do 40k a year in it. it's awfull. grip followed by massive understear. Rain only makes it happen at a lower speed.
Why on earth would you want to have people driving faster! Its crap enough out there with out having cars chucked at me every time it rains.
spad78 said:
Poor article from a journalist with whom I often share views and whom I believe often articulates them more clearly than in this example.
Totally agree. My cars given to me by work, its a diesel Astra estate i'm guessing its fairly representative of the state of mid size mass market cars. i do 40k a year in it. it's awfull. grip followed by massive understear. Rain only makes it happen at a lower speed.
Why on earth would you want to have people driving faster! Its crap enough out there with out having cars chucked at me every time it rains.
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