RE: PH Blog: rain stops play
Discussion
I think that this column should have ended "tell me I'm wrong" at the bottom, mainly because I think a lot of people would say "Chris, you are wrong".
I appreciate that we are just exiting the festive period but that entire article should be filed under 'stocking filler' as it can only be described as waffle having being written to fulfill a contractual obligation.
Anyway, I look forward to the resumption of normal service.
The problem with 'rain stops play' and Harris's arguments are that
a:it assumes most other people can actually drive to a decent standard
b:doesn't take into account the fact that they're probably running sunnydream tyres or if they are running decent rubber that it's worn out and wrongly inflated
or
c:they probably can't see anything in heavy rain due to knackered wipers/filthy dirty screen.
My advice would be to assume that other people are the worst sort of morons and move on with life.
a:it assumes most other people can actually drive to a decent standard
b:doesn't take into account the fact that they're probably running sunnydream tyres or if they are running decent rubber that it's worn out and wrongly inflated
or
c:they probably can't see anything in heavy rain due to knackered wipers/filthy dirty screen.
My advice would be to assume that other people are the worst sort of morons and move on with life.
jon- said:
Given that about 50% of the cars on the road are on budget ditch finder tyres, you might find the vast reduction in driving speed you're noticing in inclement conditions is actually required.
Nothing like a set of ditch finders to focus you in the wet. It's not even the lack of grip some of these cheap tyres provide, it's the extreme unpredictability at the limit.
I'm not really feeling this article at all tbh.Nothing like a set of ditch finders to focus you in the wet. It's not even the lack of grip some of these cheap tyres provide, it's the extreme unpredictability at the limit.
+1 the above, not everyone is running round on fresh premium rubber Chris, even lease companies are going none OEM at renewal time.
In South Yorkshire there are flooded areas on most A and B roads, there are also huge swathes or tarmac that have been lifted up from an already crumbling road system, grate lids have been nicked but you cant tell as they are already flooded. I would rather people who can't cope drive slowly rather than quicker than they are comfortable with. That way when they hit something they are going slower, if you don't like it YOU take it on yourself to pass them. I would much rather be responsible for my own and my families safety rather than the prat in an expensive car with 'Premium' rubber on the M1 travelling at warp 5 who seems to be able to ignore standing water and can also see through mist and fog. (With the help of the front fogs of course)
Not meant as a dig everyone gets frustrated but thats life on the road in 2013.
This isn't - as someone has already alluded to - a call to drive at the limit of adhesion, but a very well made point demonstrating that far too many people have no idea how to drive, let alone how to drive a modern car. It's the difference between driving like a lunatic, and making reasonable progress.
Advanced driving education (or lack thereof) is one factor here, but another is the feeling that increased experience behind the wheel seems to do nothing for a lot of drivers. Picture the number of times you see someone turn without indicating, or braking everytime a car passes them in the opposite direction. On a perfectly normal A road. The best one is those who stop rather than drive through a Bus-width-or-bigger gap, because they haven't a clue how wide their own car is.
At the other end of the scale, you have the aforementioned fearless muppet, who thinks that tailgating at 90mph in driving rain and spray is perfectly acceptable because ABS will save them.
It seems to be too much to expect the application of awareness and forward-thinking (2 second rule, anyone?) instead of only thinking as far as the end of your own bonnet.
Advanced driving education (or lack thereof) is one factor here, but another is the feeling that increased experience behind the wheel seems to do nothing for a lot of drivers. Picture the number of times you see someone turn without indicating, or braking everytime a car passes them in the opposite direction. On a perfectly normal A road. The best one is those who stop rather than drive through a Bus-width-or-bigger gap, because they haven't a clue how wide their own car is.
At the other end of the scale, you have the aforementioned fearless muppet, who thinks that tailgating at 90mph in driving rain and spray is perfectly acceptable because ABS will save them.
It seems to be too much to expect the application of awareness and forward-thinking (2 second rule, anyone?) instead of only thinking as far as the end of your own bonnet.
I'm afraid that I need to own up and say that I'm largely a trundler at the moment. I've just bought a Maserati 3200 GT and my experience with it has been nothing but wet weather at the moment.
It also needs a new set of boots, so until that point, I will continue to be a blu-rinse driver as any squirt of the gas pedal causes wheel spin in the first two gears so going around corners I'm not too confident with yet! The fly-by-wire is also a little... savage, why oh why can't we just keep a throttle cable!
This is a complete juxtaposition to any other car I've owned!
It also needs a new set of boots, so until that point, I will continue to be a blu-rinse driver as any squirt of the gas pedal causes wheel spin in the first two gears so going around corners I'm not too confident with yet! The fly-by-wire is also a little... savage, why oh why can't we just keep a throttle cable!
This is a complete juxtaposition to any other car I've owned!
Edited by ajb101 on Wednesday 2nd January 13:42
I remember a heated discussion with a chap about how he kept buckling wheels. It seems the wheels were rediculously weak OEM ones, and he'd got through several sets.
Aparently slowing down for puddles that might contain pot holes isn't the right thing to do, you should just assume all puddles are only a few mm deep and plow through them at normal speed.
Obviously there is an alternative, which is to not slow down but to avoid the puddles by swerving violently towards on-coming traffic to avoid them.
I've not noticed people driving excessively slowly in the extreme wet, so maybe I'm one of them.
Aparently slowing down for puddles that might contain pot holes isn't the right thing to do, you should just assume all puddles are only a few mm deep and plow through them at normal speed.
Obviously there is an alternative, which is to not slow down but to avoid the puddles by swerving violently towards on-coming traffic to avoid them.
I've not noticed people driving excessively slowly in the extreme wet, so maybe I'm one of them.
Mostly agreeing. Depends on the car though. My healthy and predictable on dry roads Z3 M Coupe becomes quite a sneaky bitch on a grip changing wet road.
It's actually quite fun under the first rain of the season (the one that leeches up slippery stuff) because it's then powersliding everywhere. Whatever corner you are in, whatever speed is yours and whatever gear you choose
But on a clean wet road, the limits are much much more difficult to grasp and I don't want to play the game.
It's actually quite fun under the first rain of the season (the one that leeches up slippery stuff) because it's then powersliding everywhere. Whatever corner you are in, whatever speed is yours and whatever gear you choose
But on a clean wet road, the limits are much much more difficult to grasp and I don't want to play the game.
Sorry have to disagree. I've seen more accidents in the last few weeks then during the rest of the entire year, proof that most people just do not know how to drive when the whether turns bad, despite how good new cars\rubber might be so I'd rather people drove slower then crash in to me tbh.
Our driving test is far too lax in this regard though, I think it should be compulsory for every driver to have at least one session on a wet skidpad learning car control before being given a licence to drive.
Our driving test is far too lax in this regard though, I think it should be compulsory for every driver to have at least one session on a wet skidpad learning car control before being given a licence to drive.
Totally agree with this point, modern cars can have it in the wet. I had a '59 plate astra 1.6 on decent rubber and it was almost as quick in in the wet. However, I now drive a 207k mile 1998 bmw 328 touring on Korean death sliders and I assure you, it is a prerequisite of continuing to exist on this planet to slow down significantly in the wet regardless of asc etc I can just about keep up with a VW Polo (in the wet )
) Chris, if it were "just a bit of rain" I'd be more likely to agree. But in the parts of East Anglia and North Yorkshire and several places in between where I've been driving over the last few weeks, it's more like streams of muddy run-off sluicing across the roads in unaccustomed places, invisible pot-holes, standing water of up to several inches, subsidence and road surfaces breaking up. You can't see what's in a big puddle: it might be half a brick, a new pothole or a big chunk of dry stone wall.
Totally agree with what Mr Harris is saying.
Some people drive that slow it's dangerous in the sense that it frustrates other road users, which in turn makes them overtake or drive faster just to get past them.
A decent set of rubber and good driver control means you can drive in a similar fashion to what you would in the dry.
Some people drive that slow it's dangerous in the sense that it frustrates other road users, which in turn makes them overtake or drive faster just to get past them.
A decent set of rubber and good driver control means you can drive in a similar fashion to what you would in the dry.
Greg348 said:
Dont forget to switch on your rear fog light(sorry rain light
) if there is some rain or a bit of mist... 
Agreed this is a must. Even if Ulrika says there is rain only forecast put on your fog lights just to be safe. It makes a lovely halo when it does rain and can obscure your brake lights which is always useful.) if there is some rain or a bit of mist... I disagree.
In the main, I'm more concerned by the people who drive far too close to each other and brake harshly & late in the wet.
Given that a lot (most?) drivers don't know what happens when grip is lost, have under-inflated tyres of dubious condition, greasy windscreens and knackered wiper blades, I'd prefer them to slow down and drive smoothly, leaving good distances between themselves and other cars.
Personally, I enjoy driving in the wet (on quiet roads) and feeling for the grip. Even on a motorbike.
I'm also an evangelist for Uniroyal car tyres.
In the main, I'm more concerned by the people who drive far too close to each other and brake harshly & late in the wet.
Given that a lot (most?) drivers don't know what happens when grip is lost, have under-inflated tyres of dubious condition, greasy windscreens and knackered wiper blades, I'd prefer them to slow down and drive smoothly, leaving good distances between themselves and other cars.
Personally, I enjoy driving in the wet (on quiet roads) and feeling for the grip. Even on a motorbike.
I'm also an evangelist for Uniroyal car tyres.
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