Buy existing Scirocco currently on PCP or new deal ????

[j4xxc]

Emeye said:

As suggested, I'd go test drive some other new cars locally to get a feel for the offers from other dealers with similar models. You may even find a car you like just as much or more and get an even better deal, especially if they have to hit their figures at the end of he month and have a car you want!

I've not had a newish car for a while, but in the back of mags like autocar, whatcar, top gear, etc they used to have good current special dealer incentives and offers listed. Autocar probably the best if they still do it as it's weekly.

Oh, and I just remembered, I got an email from the AA today offering loans between £7500 and £14999 at 5.5% apr! Might not be the best but better than your bank rate, and you can negotiate finance rates with dealers. Get the best rate online then challenge the dealer to match or better it!

Thats worth looking at then!! Tesco offering 5.2% typical APR at that rate but for some unknown reason (even with an excellent credit rating !!) they quoted me 7.1% so Ill check out the AA... Yorkshire Bank offering 7.4% on £15k to £25k but I have been a customer for donkeys years so they may be able to do something if I go in and see them ...

[Deva Link]

Alfahorn said:

I hate PCP I think the only beneficiaries are the finance company, manufacturer and dealers. Most people are not in a position to make the final payment to own the car outright and therefore just end up in another PCP deal which is right where the dealer and manufacturer want you.

I think PCP is OK if you go into it with your eyes open. On brand-new cars, a lot of manufacturers heavily support PCPs with deposit assistance and low interest rates. Partly for the reasons you state.

A lot of people seem to get into PCPs and not realise what they've done. They may have p/x'd a decent car and they don't realise that at the end of the term the likelyhood is that that value will have gone and if they walk away they'll have nothing.
Whether they can afford the final payment or not, the reality is often that the most logical thing to do at the end of a PCP is to start another.

Alfahorn said:

I've just done a deal on an 2012/61 plate Alfa Giulietta, saved £15,000 on the new price and I'll own the car at the end of 3 years. Much better value.

That's great, but where do you draw the line with "better value"? A year old Hyundai i30 would be better value, wouldn't it?

[Ari]

Deva Link said:

That's great, but where do you draw the line with "better value"? A year old Hyundai i30 would be better value, wouldn't it?

No, a year old i30 would be cheaper. Very different thing...

[Ari]

j4xxc said:

Really good advice from everyone - thanks v much. At the end of the day, my car allowance from work pays for this (circa £400 pcm after tax) so I suppose its whether I want a brand new car every 2 or 3 years or an asset at the end of the term courtesy of work

Dealers must love "car allowances".

Remember, every extra pound of your "car allowance" you spend is a pound less in your bank as surely as if it were from your "salary".

The reality is that its the same thing, your employer merely calls a bit of your salary a "car allowance" in the hope you'll deprecate it from your pay in your mind and blow it on a nice car to impress their clients.

[Deva Link]

Ari said:

The reality is that its the same thing, your employer merely calls a bit of your salary a "car allowance" in the hope you'll deprecate it from your pay in your mind and blow it on a nice car to impress their clients.

It's a whole other subject, but in my long experience of getting car allowances, the last thing employers want is for employees to have a car that impresses clients. They want you to have a car that clients don't notice, and there are usually rules in place to stop anything a bit different. That the OP can get a Scirocco is pretty unusual - most insist on 4 (or 5) doors.

[Alfahorn]

Deva Link said:

Alfahorn said:

I hate PCP I think the only beneficiaries are the finance company, manufacturer and dealers. Most people are not in a position to make the final payment to own the car outright and therefore just end up in another PCP deal which is right where the dealer and manufacturer want you.

I think PCP is OK if you go into it with your eyes open. On brand-new cars, a lot of manufacturers heavily support PCPs with deposit assistance and low interest rates. Partly for the reasons you state.

A lot of people seem to get into PCPs and not realise what they've done. They may have p/x'd a decent car and they don't realise that at the end of the term the likelyhood is that that value will have gone and if they walk away they'll have nothing.
Whether they can afford the final payment or not, the reality is often that the most logical thing to do at the end of a PCP is to start another.

Alfahorn said:

I've just done a deal on an 2012/61 plate Alfa Giulietta, saved £15,000 on the new price and I'll own the car at the end of 3 years. Much better value.

That's great, but where do you draw the line with "better value"? A year old Hyundai i30 would be better value, wouldn't it?

I think you've only further qualified why PCP is such and awful trap to fall in to, which was my point in the first place.

The truth of the matter is, there is nothing logical about a PCP deal.

[Captain Muppet]

MJK 24 said:

Captain Muppet said:

I know nothing about car finance...

This is unlikely to be the thread for you on that basis!

I came on to the thread to learn, and I have.

It's been very useful, which is rare.

[Ari]

Deva Link said:

Ari said:

The reality is that its the same thing, your employer merely calls a bit of your salary a "car allowance" in the hope you'll deprecate it from your pay in your mind and blow it on a nice car to impress their clients.

It's a whole other subject, but in my long experience of getting car allowances, the last thing employers want is for employees to have a car that impresses clients. They want you to have a car that clients don't notice, and there are usually rules in place to stop anything a bit different. That the OP can get a Scirocco is pretty unusual - most insist on 4 (or 5) doors.

That's what makes me laugh. Employer says "we're going to pay you a salary that reflects what you are worth, plus the fact that you are going to have you use your own car for business use" and pays employee £50K/year. Employee buys car they want in a money efficient way and carries on.

Then one day some bright spark invents "car allowance".

So now employer says "we're going to pay you £44K/year and give you £500 a month car allowance to buy a car for business use".

They then start stipulating what car you can buy with your own taxed income, how many doors, how old etc.

Best of all, the employee thinks "Great! Free money to spend on a car!" and goes out and stitches themselves up with a PCP because, hey, they're not spending their "own money", so it doesn't matter whether it's financially efficient!

Everyone I know that has a "car allowance" does this. No one seems to stop and think "hang on, if I'm a bit cleverer with how I pay for my car, I'll have more left to save/spend on coke and hookers/have a holiday/buy a bigger house with", as they would if they were spending their own money. Even though it is their own money! They get to keep whatever they don't spend.

Dealers must love customers with a "car allowance".

[Terzo123]

There are, or where some great lease deals on the go for the new BMW M135I.

Far better car, and i'm sure the monthly payments were only about £300.

There's a thread in the BMW section about it.

[Amateurish]

j4xxc said:

3. VW have offered me a new Scirocco (same spec GT but theyve upgraded the spec now to leather and other things as standard). The car now costs more than it did 2 years at £24,152 after 6% discount. The deal that they have offered me is £14500 for my existing car, giving me £2275 equity, plus £1500 additional deposit they will put in, plus they are wanting another £3000 from me - totalling £6775.00 deposit (more than last time but the car of course more expensive in 2013). That leaves £17377 to finance with a lower final payment than the current PCP of either £10,957 after 2 years or £9,180 for 3 years. The monthly cost will be £408 for 2 years or £340 for 3 years on a 7.1% APR.

You could get the same car on a lease (assuming you have the diesel):

£374 pcm (first payment £1221) on a two year lease, 20k miles. Plus you would keep whatever "equity" you have in the car.

Sounds like a better deal to me.

Do you need 4 seats? If not , you could get the SLK 250 CDI for less.

[Deva Link]

Ari said:

Everyone I know that has a "car allowance" does this. No one seems to stop and think "hang on, if I'm a bit cleverer with how I pay for my car, I'll have more left to save/spend on coke and hookers/have a holiday/buy a bigger house with", as they would if they were spending their own money. Even though it is their own money! They get to keep whatever they don't spend.

Well, I know literally hundreds of people on car allowances - in my last big corporation job as part of the management team I was involved in introducing a car allowance as an alternative to company cars.

By a million miles the main issue the top management had with the scheme was people down-sizing and putting the cash in their back pockets. Sure, there were one or two who went mad and bought something way above what they would have had as a company car, but 5 Series driving middle managers again and again would buy Peugeot 308s (for economy), used Vauxhall Astras (very cheap) etc.

[Amateurish]

Deva Link said:

Alfahorn said:

I hate PCP I think the only beneficiaries are the finance company, manufacturer and dealers. Most people are not in a position to make the final payment to own the car outright and therefore just end up in another PCP deal which is right where the dealer and manufacturer want you.

I think PCP is OK if you go into it with your eyes open. On brand-new cars, a lot of manufacturers heavily support PCPs with deposit assistance and low interest rates. Partly for the reasons you state.

Agreed. I worked for a manufacturer who lost an astronomical amount of money on PCPs which very nearly pushed them under. This was because they heavily supported the finance rate, and set the GFVs too high. So when the market turned against them, everyone returned their cars at the end of the term, and the manufacturer took the hit.

I bought my last car PCP - it was a low interest rate and I got a deposit "contribution" which made the whole thing cheaper than buying outright.

[vrsmxtb]

Not wishing to sound harsh, but shouldn't you have thought about this before signing up?

I've just committed to my first ever PCP finance plan, but made sure I have a plan in place for the final payment if I decide to keep the car, which all depends on my personal/work situation in 3 years and if the notorious VAG 1.4 twincharger proves reliable in that time.

[Herman Toothrot]

BlueMR2 said:

Including your £3k deposit you have paid just over £12k for 2 years hire of a Scirocco.

I just can't work out how people justify this sort of thing to themselves, maybe I'm just tight

Company car where you are forced to buy something boring yes, private .. crazy as a coconut

£12K for 2 years driving a sirocco, that would buy and if you are worried warantee a nice Porsche 996 for 2 years and then at the end of 2 years be able to sell Porsche for about 75% or more of what you paid.

Bonkers as my old man would say.

[Deva Link]

Herman Toothrot said:

£12K for 2 years driving a sirocco, that would buy and if you are worried warantee a nice Porsche 996 for 2 years and then at the end of 2 years be able to sell Porsche for about 75% or more of what you paid.

Reading the Porsche forums it wouldn't. How many sets of rear tyres would it need in 30K miles?

And you have to park it on the street and someone stamps on it or keys it. Great.

[em177]

Herman Toothrot said:

BlueMR2 said:

Including your £3k deposit you have paid just over £12k for 2 years hire of a Scirocco.

I just can't work out how people justify this sort of thing to themselves, maybe I'm just tight

Company car where you are forced to buy something boring yes, private .. crazy as a coconut

£12K for 2 years driving a sirocco, that would buy and if you are worried warantee a nice Porsche 996 for 2 years and then at the end of 2 years be able to sell Porsche for about 75% or more of what you paid.

Bonkers as my old man would say.

People want shiny things. I work with this day in day out. And as a petrol head you have to realise not everyone gives a badgers arse about whether they could run a 15 year old 911. They want a fixed monthly payment, for a reliable washing machine white car. And not have to worry about servicing, MOT'ing and spending evenings on forums getting worried about their RMS! :P

It's like going into an Apple shop and shouting at people they could get a 2 year old HTC on ebay for £100 that does everything their new iPhone can do. Your just wasting your breath. They'll still go sign up for one.... even at a nearly a grand over 2 years!

[j4xxc]

Deva Link said:

Herman Toothrot said:

£12K for 2 years driving a sirocco, that would buy and if you are worried warantee a nice Porsche 996 for 2 years and then at the end of 2 years be able to sell Porsche for about 75% or more of what you paid.

Reading the Porsche forums it wouldn't. How many sets of rear tyres would it need in 30K miles?

And you have to park it on the street and someone stamps on it or keys it. Great.

Thanks for the suggestions but dont want a Porsche and as Deva Link says - Id be thrilled wouldnt I at the TCO for tyres etc as well as potential damage.... Some may well think that my choice of Scirocco is boring but the point was to ask about PCP and experiences more than anything else....

[j4xxc]

vrsmxtb said:

Not wishing to sound harsh, but shouldn't you have thought about this before signing up?

I've just committed to my first ever PCP finance plan, but made sure I have a plan in place for the final payment if I decide to keep the car, which all depends on my personal/work situation in 3 years and if the notorious VAG 1.4 twincharger proves reliable in that time.

VXB - I have actually considered all of this, I was just wondering about other peoples experiences. The funds are there, the cash is already in the bank out of my own savings which I can also use if I should wish to

[Ari]

Herman Toothrot said:

I just can't work out how people justify this sort of thing to themselves, maybe I'm just tight

Company car where you are forced to buy something boring yes, private .. crazy as a coconut

£12K for 2 years driving a sirocco, that would buy and if you are worried warantee a nice Porsche 996 for 2 years and then at the end of 2 years be able to sell Porsche for about 75% or more of what you paid.

Bonkers as my old man would say.

A crabby old fifth hand Porsche, patching up all the abuse it's had over the last 15 years, arguing (and losing) with the warranty I durance company, paying the running costs of a seventy grand car, terrible fuel consumption, crappy stereos, ludicrous tyres? Why would anyone do that when they could buy a nice modern up to date fast subtle German car?

Bonkers!

[j4xxc]

Ari said:

Herman Toothrot said:

I just can't work out how people justify this sort of thing to themselves, maybe I'm just tight

Company car where you are forced to buy something boring yes, private .. crazy as a coconut

£12K for 2 years driving a sirocco, that would buy and if you are worried warantee a nice Porsche 996 for 2 years and then at the end of 2 years be able to sell Porsche for about 75% or more of what you paid.

Bonkers as my old man would say.

A crabby old fifth hand Porsche, patching up all the abuse it's had over the last 15 years, arguing (and losing) with the warranty I durance company, paying the running costs of a seventy grand car, terrible fuel consumption, crappy stereos, ludicrous tyres? Why would anyone do that when they could buy a nice modern up to date fast subtle German car?

Bonkers!

HEAR, HEAR! Ari !!