RE: PH Blog: eighth wonder
Discussion
CraigyMc said:
J4CKO said:
90 Kilos, wow.
Must admit: I was surprised it was that heavy. That's more than a whole Rover K engine.C
(K series most powerful (proddy) engine = 143bhp, 190Nm......)
GH80 said:
This makes me think of the lift vs. stairs arguement. Sure the lift will get you there quicker and you don't have to spend as much energy, but I do prefer taking the stairs, as it gives me an extra bit of exercise. Manual boxes for me, even if they are inferior, as I like the extra "brain exercise" of playing with the manual box and the reward when you pull of a nice downshift.
I wonder what this will mean for the second hand car market if we move to auto's? Second hand cars are getting more and more costly to repair, and thats without complex slush boxes to worry about. I personally would have little faith in an auto and maybe wrongly, would avoid at all costs unless buying with a long warranty.
I agree with this..even in traffic it's the mental exercise for me... I tend to switch off driving an autoI wonder what this will mean for the second hand car market if we move to auto's? Second hand cars are getting more and more costly to repair, and thats without complex slush boxes to worry about. I personally would have little faith in an auto and maybe wrongly, would avoid at all costs unless buying with a long warranty.
vxah said:
And i thought it was just me that took my foot off the brake in standing traffic? I was looking for a new car with the xenon headlamps mounted on the roof so i can blind the people blinding me with their led stop lamps...
There's always the aftermarket leds or xenons that you could put on your roof? 
Could I perhaps add a bit more experience to this thread.
I have done a shade over 10k in my 5GT which has this box.
Overall, it is excellent. Far better than the DSG / dual clutch stuff I had previously and streets ahead of the 5/6 speed stuff in my recent cars.
Depending on what mode you want, it has an amazing ability to get in the right gear for the circumstance. Plus you can mess around with the settings if you really want to (comfort, normal, sport etc)
The purists will probably want a manual, and in certain circumstances I agree, however when autos are this good, 95% of the time I will take this over anything else.
I have done a shade over 10k in my 5GT which has this box.
Overall, it is excellent. Far better than the DSG / dual clutch stuff I had previously and streets ahead of the 5/6 speed stuff in my recent cars.
Depending on what mode you want, it has an amazing ability to get in the right gear for the circumstance. Plus you can mess around with the settings if you really want to (comfort, normal, sport etc)
The purists will probably want a manual, and in certain circumstances I agree, however when autos are this good, 95% of the time I will take this over anything else.
toppstuff said:
Now I like autos. But there is a part of me that thinks it will be sad to lose the manual box.
A car that is supposed to be 'fun' should have a manual box. I don't mind an auto in a cruiser (my daily drive is an auto) but they just aren't fun like a manual box. My mate is a driving instructor and he is getting a lot of people getting in touch after automatic only lessons and some fellow instructors are moving to automatic only tuition because they can't see the point of teach people to drive manually!I have used the Lexus gearbox and whilst good, is nothing close to the ZF, and no I am not anti lexus or pro BMW etc I simply assess these things on merit, and the ZF is streets ahead of the lexus box. Also I would seriously challenge the 100 milisecond claim... felt more like 400 to me..
JH42 said:
Game changer and component of the year? Really?
Lexus IS F has had an eight speed box with 0.1 second upshifts since 2008.
But it isn't German so move along, nothing to see...
Lexus IS F has had an eight speed box with 0.1 second upshifts since 2008.
But it isn't German so move along, nothing to see...
nav p said:
Nice to have an option of a manual for those who still want one,but manual is not for me anymore!
Sad to think that this attitude is echoed amongst many who would probably call themselves 'petrolheads'. To joe public, a manual shift is just another annoyance in driving a car. Something that demands effort when he just wants to switch off and let the car do the work so he can think about work, taking the kids to school or cleaning out the shed...Totally agree - have the box in one of my cars and it really is all its cracked up to be - quick, economical and otherworldy ability to be in the right gear at the right time.
To give you a real world example on economy - same car - new 8 speed box and 306hp engine v old 6 speed box and 286hp engine - gives 3mpg better fuel economy.
There is however a right place for an auto re: comments on manual v auto. On some cars it's an absolute must to have an auto and on others a manual makes the car great - horses for courses. The auto box has absolute relevance in the modern driving pantheon and this box is the pinnacle of the breed right now.
To give you a real world example on economy - same car - new 8 speed box and 306hp engine v old 6 speed box and 286hp engine - gives 3mpg better fuel economy.
There is however a right place for an auto re: comments on manual v auto. On some cars it's an absolute must to have an auto and on others a manual makes the car great - horses for courses. The auto box has absolute relevance in the modern driving pantheon and this box is the pinnacle of the breed right now.
Baryonyx said:
Sad to think that this attitude is echoed amongst many who would probably call themselves 'petrolheads'. To joe public, a manual shift is just another annoyance in driving a car. Something that demands effort when he just wants to switch off and let the car do the work so he can think about work, taking the kids to school or cleaning out the shed...
I'm sure I was just reading a thread where people were being slated for buying boring cars to drive about in daily, keeping the fun cars safe from monday morning plonkers. They said you are a petrol head, a car enthusiast, You should always buy a car to enjoy driving.And here the argument is to have an auto to make the chore of driving easier? seriously put the car in neutral and lift the hand brake, can put your feet on the dash for a rest then :P
Typical pistonheads really.
I've just picked up a new F30 BMW 320d Sport for my dad with the Sport version of this gearbox. It really is quite amazing! It's so lovely to drive. The extra gearing is great for fuel consumption and performance. It must put such little strain on the engine. At 1,000 rpm it was doing 40mph in 8th!
It's quick to shift too, really quick. Loved it.
It's quick to shift too, really quick. Loved it.
I have to agree with all those who have this 'box in a BMW - I got my latest Z4 with this gearbox having had only manual cars up to this one. (I drive auto's lots but have never owned one myself before)
The gearbox is an absolute peach to use. It totally suits the Z4 for me. Sporty when you want it, smooth when you just potter. Soothing in traffic and a blast in manual mode.
I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it to anyone who was undecided. The best auto 'box I've ever driven.
The gearbox is an absolute peach to use. It totally suits the Z4 for me. Sporty when you want it, smooth when you just potter. Soothing in traffic and a blast in manual mode.
I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it to anyone who was undecided. The best auto 'box I've ever driven.
Otispunkmeyer said:
Sounds good to me
People can bang on about wanting a manual all they want. For me, my next cars will be autos for the plain reason that 99% of the time they make the journey more pleasurable. So many cars on the roads today, everything is stop start. I'd rather give my feet a rest than be endlessly holding the clutch down or feeding it in. For the 1% of time where a back road opportunity presents itself, I would say at least 50% of these opportunities are ruined by the growing hoard of complete idiots driving today. Bumbling along at 35 mph with a long train of people who dare not overtake.
So 0.5% of the time I may then wish I had a good manual box to stir away at. But given how infrequent that would be, I am happy to just forego it altogether.
My wife has had autos for two years.People can bang on about wanting a manual all they want. For me, my next cars will be autos for the plain reason that 99% of the time they make the journey more pleasurable. So many cars on the roads today, everything is stop start. I'd rather give my feet a rest than be endlessly holding the clutch down or feeding it in. For the 1% of time where a back road opportunity presents itself, I would say at least 50% of these opportunities are ruined by the growing hoard of complete idiots driving today. Bumbling along at 35 mph with a long train of people who dare not overtake.
So 0.5% of the time I may then wish I had a good manual box to stir away at. But given how infrequent that would be, I am happy to just forego it altogether.
When the time came to change my manual 997, I bought a PDK Turbo because of the same reasons, fed up changing gear all the time. And I live in the country.
Then I changed the 997 Turbo for an M3 DCT for various reasons. That gearbox is even better than the Porsche PDK. The only downside is lumpy changes when it's cold but that is gone within a mile or two.
PascalBuyens said:
So you're telling you don't need to apply the brake on your automatic while waiting in traffic?
Actually, in most (all?) new Mercs, you don't do this. When stationary, you simply press down firmly on the brake pedal and then you can release it. The car holds the brakes on for you, until you press the throttle, and then the brakes are released. Or you can pop it into neutral.I love a manual gearbox still and it's two years since I used one. But I'll never go back, and all you folk loving it are going to have to get used to it's demise, because it's days are numbered.
Edited by mattv8 on Monday 7th January 14:44
Ive always had auto's and the VW DSG I had in an octavia was an astonishing gearbox. I do prefere the torque multiplying abilities of a classic torque converter auto though.
My Honda has a manual gearbox stlye auto with a torque converter and it's a great combination, you even get the whining in reverse
My Honda has a manual gearbox stlye auto with a torque converter and it's a great combination, you even get the whining in reverse
I would be interested to know how much remaining anti-auto sentiment is based on personal experiences vs the popular historic view that manuals are the 'sportier' choice?
It seems to me that if this box were the very first auto ever made - and we'd avoided all the years of slush - we'd all be hailing it as a revelation and dropping our manual boxes like hot potatoes...
I've never owned an auto, barely driven them in fact. But i'd love to try this one.
It seems to me that if this box were the very first auto ever made - and we'd avoided all the years of slush - we'd all be hailing it as a revelation and dropping our manual boxes like hot potatoes...
I've never owned an auto, barely driven them in fact. But i'd love to try this one.
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