Pretend What Car - Classic 2+2, ideally with a V8

[300bhp/ton]

renrut said:

Bi turbo is interesting but I really don't like the look of them. I do like the 80s angular + pop up head lights though so a Mondial is really my cup of tea. Prices look a bit steep though. Same with the more classic looking 911s, a 996 is within grasp. I suppose I could always save up a bit longer.

If I drop the 'interesting engine' wish list things open up hugely - Integra Type R for example. But I suppose there are still things like Skyline, 300ZX, Supra, RX7 with less than run of the mill engines but possibly a bit juicy.

ITR's (DC2's) I have a very soft spot for. Fab cars, truly great cars and will certainly meet your mpg needs and are a great drive. But they are a different type of car, a modern classic maybe, but certainly not a classic in the sense most people understand the word. And there's no denying the Integra was a humdrum fwd hatchback in it's lesser form despite the ITR being marketed as a coupe for the UK.

So on your points of wanting style, class and something different from the pack I think the ITR is just the wrong sort of vehicle to achieve this.

All of the other cars you mention are fine cars too, but they aren't going to be any better on fuel either than the V8 options tbh. Especially the RX-7 which could indeed be single digits. Also while the RX-7 could be had as a 2+2 most in the UK are 2 seaters and when equipped with rear seats they are tiny tiny in the back.

300ZX Z32 is a tank, great looking but certainly GT class in size/weight, so bear this in mind for track use.

Supra MKIV TT is superb, but avoid the chavved up looking ones. Skyline lines are immensely cool but budget in the high teens low 20's for fuel.

Edited by 300bhp/ton on Friday 11th January 09:47

[DonkeyApple]

How about one of the old 2+2 Lotus?

[eltax91]

Jag XK? I'm going to be, by the summer, in the same position, with perhaps £8k budget. So far Ive come up with the big cat and an M5.

[renrut]

DonkeyApple said:

How about one of the old 2+2 Lotus?

My brother has an Elan 2+2, and I know it sounds silly but I really don't want to be copying him, not after having his hand-me-down clothes as a kid. That and despite not being in a bad state has still cost him circa £5k on top of purchase price and 3 years to restore. On the road probably £12-15K.

It is a stunning car though.

[billzeebub]

Cerbera, 928, XK8

[DonkeyApple]

renrut said:

DonkeyApple said:

How about one of the old 2+2 Lotus?

My brother has an Elan 2+2, and I know it sounds silly but I really don't want to be copying him, not after having his hand-me-down clothes as a kid. That and despite not being in a bad state has still cost him circa £5k on top of purchase price and 3 years to restore. On the road probably £12-15K.

It is a stunning car though.

Seems logical. I did wonder about a +4 Moggy but suspect they have gone up in recent years.

[vrooom]

MGB V8 with fuel injection?

[renrut]

300bhp/ton said:

ITR's (DC2's) I have a very soft spot for. Fab cars, truly great cars and will certainly meet your mpg needs and are a great drive. But they are a different type of car, a modern classic maybe, but certainly not a classic in the sense most people understand the word. And there's no denying the Integra was a humdrum fwd hatchback in it's lesser form despite the ITR being marketed as a coupe for the UK.

So on your points of wanting style, class and something different from the pack I think the ITR is just the wrong sort of vehicle to achieve this.

All of the other cars you mention are fine cars too, but they aren't going to be any better on fuel either than the V8 options tbh. Especially the RX-7 which could indeed be single digits. Also while the RX-7 could be had as a 2+2 most in the UK are 2 seaters and when equipped with rear seats they are tiny tiny in the back.

300ZX Z32 is a tank, great looking but certainly GT class in size/weight, so bear this in mind for track use.

Supra MKIV TT is superb, but avoid the chavved up looking ones. Skyline lines are immensely cool but budget in the high teens low 20's for fuel.

Edited by 300bhp/ton on Friday 11th January 09:47

Agreed.

Integra would TBH more a fun day to day car for me and possibly one for the future as its on my bucket list. The DC2 really is at the ideal point to buy, £3k gets a decent one and I can't see them ever getting much less. But despite being one of the best its still only 4 cylinders and I don't think it would feel special enough driving it unless I'm really going for it. And it doesn't fit the style criteria particularly either. so not really.

I've always liked the Z32 shape but it would be big and practical enough but I don't know how big the LWB 2+2 ones are as all the ones I've seen were the 2 seater swb.

RX7, Supra and Skyline would fit the bill but after talking to sellers of them a few years back anything but the boggo NA ones are low 20s even with careful throttle on a steady flat road.


Curren thoughts are:
Ferrari Mondial / 308 if I could find one cheap enough without being a money pit.
Porsche 911 996 - bit too modern looking if I'm honest but ticks every other box bar the V8.
Porsche 968 - similar to above and only a 4 cylinder although it is a massive 4 cylinder but perhaps more practical and affordable.
TVR Cerbera - Speed 6 perhaps or V8 if again I get lucky on price.
Jag XK8 - Ticks most of the boxes but perhaps a bit too GT not sporty enough. I'd have to drive one to know. an XKR if the thirst isn't too bad might be a great compromise.
BMW M3 e36 - perhaps although I think it would disappoint from the appearance, they always look like a 3 series that works out and not really that special.
BMW 840i - I really don't know a lot about these but seems to tick a lot of boxes.
BMW 635i e24 - similar to above but bit more classic looking and I REALLY liek the shark nose look of them. - http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/use...
Maserati 3200GT - Ticks a lot of boxes but also seems to have the biggest bill potential from stories of complete engine failures.
something American with a rumbly V8 but I really know very little about this area - Trans Am or something like that but it would need to be able to give steering feedback even if it takes a little tweaking.
Some sort of classic Lotus 2+2 but not an Elan as bro has one.

[anonymous-user]

£10k should get a Porsche 968 in the private sales. Some may scoff that its a four pot but by all accounts, the handling is sublime and it meets most of the other criteria.
http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/use...

Its not particularly classic, nor in th same league as the other stuff but the 3.2 Alfa GTV is worth a look too as you can easily get the best on the market for not much more than £5k

http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/use...

From your list below I'd search high and low for a good 3200 with history that you like and exhaust that option before going any further. I just love them, and I think that most of the other stuff is just too dull, XK8s, BMWs etc, they just wouldnt make me smile like the Maserati would. Defiantely the first choice "next car" for me...

Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 11th January 11:00

[renrut]

You mean like this?

http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/use...

[V8RX7]

I wanted similar except it HAD to be manual and a V8.

If you will accept Auto there are lots more choices.

There are Cerberas available for less then £10k regularly on Ebay but the bills / reliability / safety put me off.

Eventually I bought this:





RX7 2+2 6.0 LS2 V8 400+bhp they are a known conversion and tend to sell for circa £12k, they will hit 30mpg at 80ish as 6th is so high but around town it's closer to 10mpg.

Faster than a Ferrari 360 with (fuel excluded) Mondeo running costs.

If you are feeling lucky a 3200GT fits your criteria too.

[plasticpig]

renrut said:

My brother has an Elan 2+2, and I know it sounds silly but I really don't want to be copying him, not after having his hand-me-down clothes as a kid. That and despite not being in a bad state has still cost him circa £5k on top of purchase price and 3 years to restore. On the road probably £12-15K.

It is a stunning car though.

You could always go for the bespoke option.

Not sure who this belongs to now but it has been owned by a couple of PH'rs.



Scimitar SE5a with TVR V8

Then there are the V8 Capri Perana clones....

[braddo]

V8RX7 said:

I wanted similar except it HAD to be manual and a V8.

If you will accept Auto there are lots more choices.

There are Cerberas available for less then £10k regularly on Ebay but the bills / reliability / safety put me off.

Eventually I bought this:

Are the back seats useable though?

[300bhp/ton]

renrut said:

something American with a rumbly V8 but I really know very little about this area - Trans Am or something like that but it would need to be able to give steering feedback even if it takes a little tweaking.

American cars are a bit marmite and in the UK they carry a huge stigma that they don't handle and drink fuel. If you can get past this and go drive one I'm willing to bet you'll be impressed. In fact they are so good that they make you less interested in other makes of cars - someone warned me about this before I got mine and they were right.

But the best thing about them is their sheer durability and usability. If you want to use one daily or to go to the shops. No probs. But they are just as happy being abused on track or on a European tour.

I forget exact when I bought my Camaro now, but I reckon it 6 maybe 7 years ago. In that time it's cost a couple of sets of tyres, new brakes (£356 all in for the discs/pads) and a new hazard switch that my brother broke (£1.26). It's truly cost less to run than most hot hatches do.

I also only paid £6500 for it and I reckon it's worth £5500 today, which isn't bad value retention.


Regards to steering feel - they all have PAS and all are large. But in truth they are as good as most things, they use the same sort of hydrolic PAS as most other car makers do, so there's no technical reason why they don't have feel.

My Camaro replaced my 5.3 litre V12 Jaguar XJ-S and without a doubt the Camaro is more fun, more thrilling and far more sporty feeling.

If you want Elise or even ITR levels of steering then no Yank will be upto the task. However if your expectations are more Focus ST or BMW 8 Series then I think they are equally as good if not better.

The biggest thing you'll likely want to budget for is suspension. All American cars leave the factory with a very generic setup, which means too soft and too high. But treat this as a starting point. Some new shocks, springs and ant-roll bars will have them handling as well/better than all of the Jap/Euro alternatives. It really is this simple. For instance I'm currently the proud owner of a Subaru Turbo 2000 as well as my Camaro. The Scooby is great, but assuming its dry out the Camaro will match it any day of the week on a B road or country lane and usually offer a bigger grin too. Find a bit more open space and the Scooby won't see which way the Camaro went. In the wet/damp it's a different story as the Camaro will wheel spin at almost 50mph!

renrut said:

Jag XK8 - Ticks most of the boxes but perhaps a bit too GT not sporty enough. I'd have to drive one to know. an XKR if the thirst isn't too bad might be a great compromise.

I know there has been some talk already about these. But as they are/were a lust car for me I thought I'd chip in a little further. As said I previously owned a XJ-S, my Dad has also owned a number of other Jags 6.0 V12, 3.6 manual, 4.0 AJ6 and AJ16 even a 2.9 XJ40. So I've driven Jags a lot and for many thousands of miles.

The biggest issue for me with the XK8 is:

-no LSD (unlike the XJS which had one, I think the XK8 is like the XJ8 and relies on TCS )
-auto only

However on the road these maybe aren't a real issue.

Something to bear in mind though, the XK8 is actually built on a development of the XJS platform, very similar structure and suspension setup. I say this for the point I'm about to make.


Have you considered an XJ-S?

The main reason is I love the look of them and they certainly tick the class and style and classic boxes very well indeed. But you can also get them with a manual gearbox (although rare) and a LSD.

The last of the line 4.0 litres used the 241bhp AJ16 engine and could be had with a 5 speed manual.

But the interesting thing here is, I think you could make a truly superb car with not much effort. The XJ-S like the XK8 is setup for comfort and GT cruising, but revise some of the suspension (shocks, springs, bushes same sort of thing as you would with a Yank) and it turns them into a great handling car.

There is also the possibility of retro fitting an XJR6 supercharged engine, this engine is 330hp and is also an AJ16 4.0 unit, just lower CR and fitted with an Eaton Roots blower. There really is no reason why you couldn't make an XJSR6. Ok fuel is still an issue and it won't be a V8. But I doubt it'd be truly worse on fuel than an XK8 and it would be faster, more fun and more capable. XJ-S' are picking up in value, but your budget would allow you to do this and end up with something very unique and very very cool.

[V8RX7]

braddo said:

V8RX7 said:

I wanted similar except it HAD to be manual and a V8.

If you will accept Auto there are lots more choices.

There are Cerberas available for less then £10k regularly on Ebay but the bills / reliability / safety put me off.

Eventually I bought this:

Are the back seats useable though?

As usable as 944/968 / most coupes.

I have 2 daughters aged 3 and 5 and they both fit in easily - they love it as their feet touch the floor.

I think with one in the front and one in the back I'll be able to use it until they are 10-12ish maybe longer.

(My wife refuses to get in it as she's terrified of speed so I only use it as a 3 seater)

[anonymous-user]

renrut said:

You mean like this?

http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/use...

yes, just like that!

Whats not to love? nice interiors, lovely V8 rumble, loads of room for renrut jr to grow into... I appreciate the styling isnt to a lot of tastes as it lacks the dramatic appeal of something like a Cerbera but I like the subtle nature of it and it will still go when you want it too. If those stats are anything like accurate, 363 bhp and 362 lb/ft of torque would be plenty enough for fun!

[IanMorewood]

Maserati 3200? Ok you wont get 30mpg but I dont think your list is all going to be met on one car.

[braddo]

V8RX7 said:

As usable as 944/968 / most coupes.

I have 2 daughters aged 3 and 5 and they both fit in easily - they love it as their feet touch the floor.

I think with one in the front and one in the back I'll be able to use it until they are 10-12ish maybe longer.

(My wife refuses to get in it as she's terrified of speed so I only use it as a 3 seater)

Good to know

I'm guessing that's without booster seats?

[peatmoor]

excel monkey said:

jet_noise said:

dare I suggest a Monaro?
Meets all except the 30mpg

Except "classic car looks and style"
How about an 8-series BMW?

Actually on long runs, 30 mpg is achievable if you treat it well. Low crusing revs on a lazy V8. Its around town where it really impacts the overall. You're prob getting 15 there.

On the classic looks, I might be bias here, but I think they look fab. Turns a lot of heads and very rare. I've only ever seen one other on the road. That makes it a classic doesn't it?? Admittedly a modern classic you might say.

Otherwise I think a Porsche 911 996 is a great shout, as is a very decent 944 or 968

[300bhp/ton]

Could always opt for the Pontiac styling for something slightly different...