SOTW: Jaguar XJ6
Discussion
22rgt B Squadron said:
Hardly a car to run on a shoestring which really is what shed motoring is about. Theyre slow,unwieldy and one of the biggest money pits on the road. Ok if you dont mind the golfing/pipe smoking/grandad image though..
I don’t agree at all! 
You’re talking about bangernomics – buying a cheap and cheerful small car, then running it on a shoestring. All very sensible. Shedding is quite the opposite: it is about getting the flashest/fastest/poshest old smoker for a thousand pounds, cars whose frightening running costs and monumental borkfactor deter all but the most enthusiastic fool. They then run it ‘till it fails to proceed. Problem solving and fault finding are dealt with by managed retreat. Any problem which doesn’t affect running is entirely incidental. Non functioning air conditioning isn’t fixed.
This is why an X300 is an excellent Shed. Jags of this age may not have working air conditioning and might not have a clock, but they are mechanically reliable and very unlikely to strand you and that’s what Shedding is about.
Shedding is about spinning the wheel of fortune and chancing it. You win, you feel like a lord for a grand. You loose, you catch the bus.
My dad owned one of the very first Mk 1 4.2 XJ6's in the north of England in January 1969. Everywhere he parked it, it drew small crowds peering through the windows...notes were left on the windscreen offering £500 over list by strangers......The car was just over £2000. He sold it after two years for £300 less than he paid for it and bought the Daimler version, which had nicer interior trim and a central chrome bonnet strip and fluted grill.
I just don't get the "Minder" thing at all - he had an S3 and then an XJ40 didn't he?
I see no reason this couldn't be a shed - whoever said it was about getting a car which would work for 'insert time period here' is wrong, sheds are about driving something nice until it stops working.
You aren't going to repair ANYTHING unless it's cost-free or dead easy, it's "managed retreat" time. No-one cars about electric seats (unless you can't move then manually) or seat heaters or aircon or stuff like that - shed owners just care if it starts and drives.
A mate of mine once 'shedded' an Audi 200 - by the time gave-up on it the following things had failed (some of them had been dead for years)
Electric Windows (only the driver-side rear worked - he'd pay tolls by opening the door)
Electric Mirrors
Aircon
Electric Seats (front) - could only move fore and aft manually
Fog lights (front)
Half the warning lights (the good old days when it didn't matter)
Sunroof (at all - had to be manually closed and caulked-up to stop it leaking)
At least 2 cylinders (we're near it's death at this point!)
Heated Rear Window
Dash blowers (jammed on demist which is the only one you NEED)
Y'know what killed it tho - it's towbar snapped - that was the last straw as he took a trailer tent away most weekends
THAT is shedding
I see no reason this couldn't be a shed - whoever said it was about getting a car which would work for 'insert time period here' is wrong, sheds are about driving something nice until it stops working.
You aren't going to repair ANYTHING unless it's cost-free or dead easy, it's "managed retreat" time. No-one cars about electric seats (unless you can't move then manually) or seat heaters or aircon or stuff like that - shed owners just care if it starts and drives.
A mate of mine once 'shedded' an Audi 200 - by the time gave-up on it the following things had failed (some of them had been dead for years)
Electric Windows (only the driver-side rear worked - he'd pay tolls by opening the door)
Electric Mirrors
Aircon
Electric Seats (front) - could only move fore and aft manually
Fog lights (front)
Half the warning lights (the good old days when it didn't matter)
Sunroof (at all - had to be manually closed and caulked-up to stop it leaking)
At least 2 cylinders (we're near it's death at this point!)
Heated Rear Window
Dash blowers (jammed on demist which is the only one you NEED)
Y'know what killed it tho - it's towbar snapped - that was the last straw as he took a trailer tent away most weekends
THAT is shedding
thejpster said:
pSyCoSiS said:
Anyone looking at buying one of these should really consider this:
http://www.gumtree.com/p/cars-vans-motorbikes/1998...
http://www.gumtree.com/p/cars-vans-motorbikes/1998...
Big Rod said:
I bought a 'cheap' XJR8 about six months ago...
The V8 model has the same bodyshell as the straight six but everything else is different and the bork factor is significantly higher.The straight six can be handled by a man with a spanner as there is nothing that requires a laptop for reprogramming, except maybe throttle body alignment. The straight six engine itself is nigh-on indestructible. No-one removes engines from rusty X300s before they get weighed in because hardly anyone ever needs a replacement.
If you are in any doubt from the picture, straight sixes will be on an M to a P plate (maybe a few early Rs) and have square reflectors set into the bumper and a solid chrome strip across the top of each bumper. V8s are R to 02, have missing chrome under the grill and boot (where it always got damaged) and oval reflectors.
To be honest, I wanted a V8 mainly because I didn't like the ZX Spectrum style 'keyboard' layout of the dash in the XJ6.
The body and chassis are exactly the same though and that's where, (aside from the fuel pumps, egr valves, timing chain tensioners, catalytic converters and lambda sensors...), I have the main trouble with mine.
It just won't drive straight! And that's down to a number of factors...
So far I've replaced, the lower front balljoints, both track rod ends, the ARB links, (OK, I know they don't affect the allignment!), and a couple of other bushes and it's still just a smidging away from being quite right.
The big deal is that the driveshafts, (which as I'm sure you know.), are an active part of the geometry, and are prone to wear. This can be 'dialled out' to reduce its deliberation as to what lane to be in but if I want it fixed proper it's going to be very expensive. This is compounded by the design, (have you ever looked at the rear suspension?!?!?). Apparently to set mine straight I need to order some 6mm shims from Jaguar which are pennies, but fitting them is another story.
I see many XJR8 drivetrains, or at least the engines, being used in some mad transplants in the foreseeable future. Forbye the timing chain issues, they're almost bombproof!!
Don't get me wrong, I absolutley adore the thing, but if you're considering one to run on a shoestring, best start looking at Micras.
Edited by Big Rod on Saturday 26th January 01:42
Big Rod said:
thejpster said:
pSyCoSiS said:
Anyone looking at buying one of these should really consider this:
http://www.gumtree.com/p/cars-vans-motorbikes/1998...
http://www.gumtree.com/p/cars-vans-motorbikes/1998...
Big Rod said:
I bought a 'cheap' XJR8 about six months ago...
The V8 model has the same bodyshell as the straight six but everything else is different and the bork factor is significantly higher.The straight six can be handled by a man with a spanner as there is nothing that requires a laptop for reprogramming, except maybe throttle body alignment. The straight six engine itself is nigh-on indestructible. No-one removes engines from rusty X300s before they get weighed in because hardly anyone ever needs a replacement.
If you are in any doubt from the picture, straight sixes will be on an M to a P plate (maybe a few early Rs) and have square reflectors set into the bumper and a solid chrome strip across the top of each bumper. V8s are R to 02, have missing chrome under the grill and boot (where it always got damaged) and oval reflectors.
To be honest, I wanted a V8 mainly because I didn't like the ZX Spectrum style 'keyboard' layout of the dash in the XJ6.
The body and chassis are exactly the same though and that's where, (aside from the fuel pumps, egr valves, timing chain tensioners, catalytic converters and lambda sensors...), I have the main trouble with mine.
It just won't drive straight! And that's down to a number of factors...
So far I've replaced, the lower front balljoints, both track rod ends, the ARB links, (OK, I know they don't affect the allignment!), and a couple of other bushes and it's still just a smidging away from being quite right.
The big deal is that the driveshafts, (which as I'm sure you know.), are an active part of the geometry, and are prone to wear. This can be 'dialled out' to reduce its deliberation as to what lane to be in but if I want it fixed proper it's going to be very expensive. This is compounded by the design, (have you ever looked at the rear suspension?!?!?). Apparently to set mine straight I need to order some 6mm shims from Jaguar which are pennies, but fitting them is another story.
I see many XJR8 drivetrains, or at least the engines, being used in some mad transplants in the foreseeable future. Forbye the timing chain issues, they're almost bombproof!!
Don't get me wrong, I absolutley adore the thing, but if you're considering one to run on a shoestring, best start looking at Micras.
Edited by Big Rod on Saturday 26th January 01:42
I'd suggest you take another opinion on this.There is a packing piece between the diff output flange and inner end of the driveshaft but there's no way it's anything like 6.0mm thick. To access or change this packing piece or the driveshaft is a simple job that should take less than an hour.
Undo the 4 bolts securing the driveshaft to the diff flange, take off the rear brake caliper bracket, undo the hub swivel bolt and press the driveshaft out of the hub. Why you would need to do that is another matter though as changes in driveshaft effective length due to UJ wear (these should be greased every service. Yes really, a millenium car with grease nipples) and that's all it can be will alter the camber on the affected side, but rear camber on the X308 is set and adjusted by cambotlts fitted to the hubs and not by changing shims or packing pieces.
Having said that any wear or damage to the driveshaft UJs sufficent to affect camber will be noisy and also make the back end shake like a s
tting dog so you'd know for sure something was wrong, so I doubt any of this is your problem.XJs can be prone to tramlining, especially on larger wheel sizes even if there's nothing wrong. If the car is wandering badly then chances are you have either a problem with suspension geometry or tyres. IMO first thing to do is to have a proper Hunter 4 wheel alignment check and that's not the same as having the tracking "done" by your local tyre monkeys.
This will diagnose anything that's wrong when the car is static and an experienced operator will know to look behind the indicated fault to see the cause. Rear suspension A frame bushes can be a weakness for example and that will cause a X308 to self steer under acceleration or braking.
XJs are also sensitive to tyres and tyre pressures. The difference in feel and road behaviour between a car on worn out Korean Ditchfinders and even a mid priced tyre such as a Falken or Goodyear is striking. Just a couple of PSI change too will affect how the car steers, rides and handles.
dbdb said:
22rgt B Squadron said:
Hardly a car to run on a shoestring which really is what shed motoring is about. Theyre slow,unwieldy and one of the biggest money pits on the road. Ok if you dont mind the golfing/pipe smoking/grandad image though..
I don’t agree at all! You’re talking about bangernomics – buying a cheap and cheerful small car, then running it on a shoestring. All very sensible. Shedding is quite the opposite: it is about getting the flashest/fastest/poshest old smoker for a thousand pounds, cars whose frightening running costs and monumental borkfactor deter all but the most enthusiastic fool. They then run it ‘till it fails to proceed. Problem solving and fault finding are dealt with by managed retreat. Any problem which doesn’t affect running is entirely incidental. Non functioning air conditioning isn’t fixed.
This is why an X300 is an excellent Shed. Jags of this age may not have working air conditioning and might not have a clock, but they are mechanically reliable and very unlikely to strand you and that’s what Shedding is about.
Shedding is about spinning the wheel of fortune and chancing it. You win, you feel like a lord for a grand. You loose, you catch the bus.
Indeed they are - a Roadforce wheel balance is the ultimate soloution and one Jaguar recommend for presistent problem cases.
It's so true that these cars get under your skin, despite all the issues you may have with them. Many moons ago when I was 18 or 19, I bought a 1976 P Reg' 4.2L Daimler Sov' Series II. It was BRG with cream leather and loads of walnut and an 8-track sound system. It was a bit of a gamble but at that age you tend to be impulsive. From day 1 things went wrong and it culminated with the head gasket blowing in the M11 due to a cracked union on the top of the rad which dumped all the coolant. There were many other failures but despite all this I loved that car and always promised myself another. My father in law had a Series III and several V12's when he was living in NZ and the fuel was cheap. His last was an XJ40 4.0L which was lovely to drive. One of the things I remember was the amazing ride. If you were following another car and noticed it tripping over manhole covers etc. the Jag simply ignored them and floated along. The throttle travel was also longer than on other cars I'd driven which made them seem a little sluggish until you prodded it deeper into the carpet and then they do go well.
Recently I managed to wangle myself a 2.7 TDCi Premium Luxury XF company car and although it's a different beast, it took me straight back to those days with the Sovereighn. It didn't matter how bad the day had been, what the weather was doing, how knackered I was feeling, sinking into the leather and floating home in the big cat made it all seem unimportant. Friend had a 2004 XJ Supercharger but sold it as the performance was so huge and so easily available he was sure he would lose his licence. I'd love another one - but the one I really crave is the Series II XJ 4.2C/5.3C which IMHO is one of the most beautiful and perfectly proportined cars ever to grace the roads.
Recently I managed to wangle myself a 2.7 TDCi Premium Luxury XF company car and although it's a different beast, it took me straight back to those days with the Sovereighn. It didn't matter how bad the day had been, what the weather was doing, how knackered I was feeling, sinking into the leather and floating home in the big cat made it all seem unimportant. Friend had a 2004 XJ Supercharger but sold it as the performance was so huge and so easily available he was sure he would lose his licence. I'd love another one - but the one I really crave is the Series II XJ 4.2C/5.3C which IMHO is one of the most beautiful and perfectly proportined cars ever to grace the roads.
dbdb said:
Shedding is quite the opposite: it is about getting the flashest/fastest/poshest old smoker for a thousand pounds, cars whose frightening running costs and monumental borkfactor deter all but the most enthusiastic fool.
Shedding is about spinning the wheel of fortune and chancing it. You win, you feel like a lord for a grand. You loose, you catch the bus.
Shedding is about spinning the wheel of fortune and chancing it. You win, you feel like a lord for a grand. You loose, you catch the bus.
Think that nails it accurately
Having researched and looked for a nice X300 for ages and finally convincing mrs GZB I knew what I was doing, I ended up buying an early Nikasil X308 for just over 2 grand. Was I mental? it had nice leather, non drooping headlining, tensioner upgrade, all toys working including aircon. Some may say it's not really a shed, I did get a bit carried away.
In the first month of ownership it was rescued by the AA from a cloud of steam on the M6. I got lucky, it actually was just a loose hose and hasn't done it since. I then discovered large frilly edged holes where the front inner wings used to be.
Now all fixed and a fair few miles done I'm starting to have faith again. Nobody can believe such a car is available for cheap runabout money as cosmetically it's mint.
I used to have an XJ12 and missed it so got this XJ8. I can get 28mpg on a motorway run fairly easily, the 4.0 gives a decent shove, I wonder what will fall off next, but the prestige and joy of wafting in it is priceless.
To any buyers (CHECK FRONT INNER WINGS!) they are covered with a plastic shield so not easy to see how bad they really are.
About the image of Jaguar XJs in general and the X300/308 in particular:
Here, in Germany, the 1980-2002 XJ range cars, from S3 to X308, were perceived as on par/above S-class and 7 series, but much more "genteel", often driven by people in the professions, lawyers, doctors, art dealers and the like (all very respectable jobs in 1980ies/90ies Germany) for whom a navy blue 500SEL would have been too teutonic and brutal. People who considered themselves tasteful and refined drove XJ12s, and brutish corner-shop owners and succesful tradesmen had second-hand Mercs with aftermarket wheels.
The Daimler variant was especially cherished over here - most of the later S3 cars were Daimler Double Sixes. With LWB, magnolia leather and picnic tables, we Germans thought Daimlers would be something like a Rolls Royce - British, elegant, exotic.
Rolls Royces and Bentleys were only for very, very, very rich people, but the old money crowd usually avoided them after the SZ range came out. Axel Springer had a Bentley S2, while the Spur and Turbo R cars were preferred by TV starlets, auction house owners, criminals and the like.
The geentelism of Jaguar began to crumble when the S Type came out, and disappeared when the X Type was introduced. Many of the former XJ owners (who could not come to terms with the X350 at all) switched over to Range Rovers (petrol, non-supercharged, only in green, no tinted windows) which again have a totally different market positioning compared to the UK (here, there were a gentlemen's express).
This all came to an end when 99% of all cars sold were black, when Jaguar introduced the current XJ range, when Range Rovers had these horrible facelift taillights, when the XF appeared. Maybe this particular customer group died out as well.
So, why is it that the relatively tasteful X300/308 cars, with their sleek, low and elegant lines, are seen as criminal's cars etc in the UK?
Vice versa: we Germans are all amused that the walrus-like S500 W140 coupe and its younger brother, the W220 coupe, is so cherished in the UK. CLs are seen as cars for pimps, dogdy construction industry tycoons and the like:-)))
Here, in Germany, the 1980-2002 XJ range cars, from S3 to X308, were perceived as on par/above S-class and 7 series, but much more "genteel", often driven by people in the professions, lawyers, doctors, art dealers and the like (all very respectable jobs in 1980ies/90ies Germany) for whom a navy blue 500SEL would have been too teutonic and brutal. People who considered themselves tasteful and refined drove XJ12s, and brutish corner-shop owners and succesful tradesmen had second-hand Mercs with aftermarket wheels.
The Daimler variant was especially cherished over here - most of the later S3 cars were Daimler Double Sixes. With LWB, magnolia leather and picnic tables, we Germans thought Daimlers would be something like a Rolls Royce - British, elegant, exotic.
Rolls Royces and Bentleys were only for very, very, very rich people, but the old money crowd usually avoided them after the SZ range came out. Axel Springer had a Bentley S2, while the Spur and Turbo R cars were preferred by TV starlets, auction house owners, criminals and the like.
The geentelism of Jaguar began to crumble when the S Type came out, and disappeared when the X Type was introduced. Many of the former XJ owners (who could not come to terms with the X350 at all) switched over to Range Rovers (petrol, non-supercharged, only in green, no tinted windows) which again have a totally different market positioning compared to the UK (here, there were a gentlemen's express).
This all came to an end when 99% of all cars sold were black, when Jaguar introduced the current XJ range, when Range Rovers had these horrible facelift taillights, when the XF appeared. Maybe this particular customer group died out as well.
So, why is it that the relatively tasteful X300/308 cars, with their sleek, low and elegant lines, are seen as criminal's cars etc in the UK?
Vice versa: we Germans are all amused that the walrus-like S500 W140 coupe and its younger brother, the W220 coupe, is so cherished in the UK. CLs are seen as cars for pimps, dogdy construction industry tycoons and the like:-)))
Interesting stuff from Germany.
The Jag's got the gangster tag back in the 1960's when the MkII's and S-Types were used as getaway cars. In later years the Jag' featured in the TV series Minder, driven by Arthur Daley who was a dodgy used car dealer in his 50's, mixed up in stolen goods and more dodgy deals.
New ones were also driven by doctors, solicitors and similar professional types but nowadays they appeal to a broader range such as business users as company cars.
They also seem to depreciate quite quickly here, meaning they fall into the hands of certain Types which also adds to the perception (if not the reality) that they are a big edgy. Perhaps also due to the running costs they tend to be owned by older people with more disposable income which gives them a reputation as an old mans car.
Personally I love them and couldn't care less about the stereotypes etc.
Rushmore said:
About the image of Jaguar XJs in general and the X300/308 in particular:
Here, in Germany, the 1980-2002 XJ range cars, from S3 to X308, were perceived as on par/above S-class and 7 series, but much more "genteel", often driven by people in the professions, lawyers, doctors, art dealers and the like (all very respectable jobs in 1980ies/90ies Germany) for whom a navy blue 500SEL would have been too teutonic and brutal. People who considered themselves tasteful and refined drove XJ12s, and brutish corner-shop owners and succesful tradesmen had second-hand Mercs with aftermarket wheels.
The Daimler variant was especially cherished over here - most of the later S3 cars were Daimler Double Sixes. With LWB, magnolia leather and picnic tables, we Germans thought Daimlers would be something like a Rolls Royce - British, elegant, exotic.
Rolls Royces and Bentleys were only for very, very, very rich people, but the old money crowd usually avoided them after the SZ range came out. Axel Springer had a Bentley S2, while the Spur and Turbo R cars were preferred by TV starlets, auction house owners, criminals and the like.
The geentelism of Jaguar began to crumble when the S Type came out, and disappeared when the X Type was introduced. Many of the former XJ owners (who could not come to terms with the X350 at all) switched over to Range Rovers (petrol, non-supercharged, only in green, no tinted windows) which again have a totally different market positioning compared to the UK (here, there were a gentlemen's express).
This all came to an end when 99% of all cars sold were black, when Jaguar introduced the current XJ range, when Range Rovers had these horrible facelift taillights, when the XF appeared. Maybe this particular customer group died out as well.
So, why is it that the relatively tasteful X300/308 cars, with their sleek, low and elegant lines, are seen as criminal's cars etc in the UK?
Vice versa: we Germans are all amused that the walrus-like S500 W140 coupe and its younger brother, the W220 coupe, is so cherished in the UK. CLs are seen as cars for pimps, dogdy construction industry tycoons and the like:-)))
Now that is interesting from a UK perspective...Here, in Germany, the 1980-2002 XJ range cars, from S3 to X308, were perceived as on par/above S-class and 7 series, but much more "genteel", often driven by people in the professions, lawyers, doctors, art dealers and the like (all very respectable jobs in 1980ies/90ies Germany) for whom a navy blue 500SEL would have been too teutonic and brutal. People who considered themselves tasteful and refined drove XJ12s, and brutish corner-shop owners and succesful tradesmen had second-hand Mercs with aftermarket wheels.
The Daimler variant was especially cherished over here - most of the later S3 cars were Daimler Double Sixes. With LWB, magnolia leather and picnic tables, we Germans thought Daimlers would be something like a Rolls Royce - British, elegant, exotic.
Rolls Royces and Bentleys were only for very, very, very rich people, but the old money crowd usually avoided them after the SZ range came out. Axel Springer had a Bentley S2, while the Spur and Turbo R cars were preferred by TV starlets, auction house owners, criminals and the like.
The geentelism of Jaguar began to crumble when the S Type came out, and disappeared when the X Type was introduced. Many of the former XJ owners (who could not come to terms with the X350 at all) switched over to Range Rovers (petrol, non-supercharged, only in green, no tinted windows) which again have a totally different market positioning compared to the UK (here, there were a gentlemen's express).
This all came to an end when 99% of all cars sold were black, when Jaguar introduced the current XJ range, when Range Rovers had these horrible facelift taillights, when the XF appeared. Maybe this particular customer group died out as well.
So, why is it that the relatively tasteful X300/308 cars, with their sleek, low and elegant lines, are seen as criminal's cars etc in the UK?
Vice versa: we Germans are all amused that the walrus-like S500 W140 coupe and its younger brother, the W220 coupe, is so cherished in the UK. CLs are seen as cars for pimps, dogdy construction industry tycoons and the like:-)))
In the distant past Jaguar in the UK had always been seen as a slightly flash, new money type of car - the choice of succesful tradesmen, the neuveau riche and of course 1960s bank robbers. This was perpetuated in popular culture and TV shows where the charming, slightly dodgy second hand car dealer, Soho porn star or criminal who still loved his old Mum always drove a Jaguar.
At that time very few European cars were imported into the UK and really wealthy old money types wouldn't be seen dead in a Jaguar, they would drive a Bentley or Roll Royce.
On top of this cultural effect the UK car industry really shot itself in the foot in the 1970s by producing really dreadfull cars that were badly made, outdated and unreliable, labour relations in UK factories were terrible and both manangement and workers engineered strikes on an almost weekly basis which ended up with virtually the whole UK car industry collapsing and beoming state owned as it was unable to support itself. This is really what opened the doors to European imports. Everbody wanted a car that would start in the morning and UK built cars couldn'even manage to do that most of the time.
Now suddenly there was an alternative - instead of a Ford Escort you could have a Datsun 120, instead of a Dagenham built Cortina you might just stretch to a early BMW 3 series, and instead of buying a terminally unreliable Jaguar Series 2 XJ or even worse an XJS you could put a Mercedes on the drive.
That's what really drove the change in the UK market and I still don't think Jaguar have fully recovered from that - you only have to look on the roads and driveways of the more wealthy areas in the UK today. You will see quite literally hundreds of Audis, BMWs and Mercedes and a lot less Jaguars, especially the midddle aged XJs from 1995 to 2002 which are getting a rare sight on UK roads now.
Interesting stuff about Jaguar's in Germany.
Friend had an X300 3.2 sport in this colour, was lovely. Odd that the article talks about the quality of the paint...the red ones in particular tend to suffer from lacquer peel.
I reckon the Series 1 is the best looking; had a 1971 4.2 for a while and loved it. I got by far the most positive comments I've ever had driving that car too.
Friend had an X300 3.2 sport in this colour, was lovely. Odd that the article talks about the quality of the paint...the red ones in particular tend to suffer from lacquer peel.
I reckon the Series 1 is the best looking; had a 1971 4.2 for a while and loved it. I got by far the most positive comments I've ever had driving that car too.
We used to have this "genteel professionals" in Germany but I believe they are a dying breed.
Claus Mirbach, Germany's Graeme Hunt, would be a good example. White hair, trimmed moustache, tweed jacket...or Albert Darboven.
They simply did not "get" the S- and X-Type cars and became irritated by the "new" XJ.
Claus Mirbach, Germany's Graeme Hunt, would be a good example. White hair, trimmed moustache, tweed jacket...or Albert Darboven.
They simply did not "get" the S- and X-Type cars and became irritated by the "new" XJ.
Most people here would have been rather reluctant to be seen in a Rolls Royce in the 80ies. The New Phantom is a rare sight in Germany. Bentley Conti GTs- different story. The people driving them would most likely not have owned a Conti R or Arnage or Brooklands before. I believe there are many people who upgraded from other high-end cars, people who in the past drove 850CSi, CL600 or the like. Most of the GTs in germany are in resale silver or black, with black leather being the favourite colour.
The traditional BRG/Magnolia combo is a dying breed as well...
The traditional BRG/Magnolia combo is a dying breed as well...
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