Discussion
I drove up the M61 at around 9am Saturday. 2 lanes were clear, but there were a number of (individual, not involved in the same incident) cars that had crashed onto the snowed-up sides of the motorway at various points. One in particular appeared to have had all 4 corners knocked-off. They appeared to have been recent incidents as the drivers didn't look as if they'd been out all night and were all stood fairly close by to their cars.
It did seemed odd as I had no issues with grip or visibility travelling at 60mph, without winter tyres.
I can only assume that they had got 2 wheels onto snow and, not knowing what to do, panicked and spun, somehow.
There had been a lot of snow around Horwich.
ps. It has now warmed-up a lot (5.5DegC)
It did seemed odd as I had no issues with grip or visibility travelling at 60mph, without winter tyres.
I can only assume that they had got 2 wheels onto snow and, not knowing what to do, panicked and spun, somehow.
There had been a lot of snow around Horwich.
ps. It has now warmed-up a lot (5.5DegC)
Edited by MC Bodge on Monday 28th January 16:52
For all on this thread, the motorway had been gritted not long prior to this lot happening, but you only need to get 1 vehicle (HGV or otherwise) stuck & slidding about trying to get going, with other vehicles stopped as drivers tried to assist each other, the snow was really coming down bad, so after a few minutes with no movement of traffic, it just becomes worse and if HGV's try to move, the rear axle on the unit is the drive axle, the wheels spin and start to slide sideways on the path of least resistance, ie towards the H/S or central res, depending on which lane you're in, this makes the HGV jack-knife as you can see from the photos, and there's bugger-all the driver can do about it.
To keep the road running even with grit down, you need a certain amount of traffic running over the c/way to make the salt work, if there's not enough traffic running over the tarmac, then the snow wins, full stop! This is basically what happens, the traffic comes to a halt, the snow is still falling, no-one is going anywhere!
I drove through that at approx 9:15pm on my way to work, but I did have the vehicle to do it in, a fully off-road prepared Discovery. I did stop with a few HGV and managed to straighten a couple up, but no chance of dragging them any further.
Once traffic is blocked, if snow is still falling, there is nothing you can do except close it, and then attempt to get at least one lane open, by either getting vehicles going, or moving them over to allow a way through, once a lane starts to move, you can then get a snow plough /gritter through down that lane, making it even better to run, the gritter will also throw grit to the side into the next lane, and with willing hands and assistance slowly but surely get more lanes running as you free traffic into the running lane. I got to the control room approx 15 minutes late, but once at the desk, never moved all shift, in the 7 years I've been in the job, I've never had a night like it. We had similar problems on the M61, the M57 & the M53, Our afternoon traffic officer shift (HATOs) didn't go home, but worked on throughout the night alongside the nightshift crews until all routes had been reopened, the M6 N/B J26-27 being the last one at around 5am.
It would help if drivers had brains, learn to drive in bad conditions on a deserted car park somewhere, when going out, take extra clothes, wear decent shoes for walking about in the stuff, take a flask, take a spade, if you have any medical conditions, make sure you have some medication with you, charge up your mobile phone, make sure you have more than enough fuel, listen to the local radio for traffic updates, if you see the signals that the c/way is closed, just because there is no-one physically there to stand in front of you, don't enter the motorway past those signals or you'll just be adding to the chaos. If you're stuck in snow in the middle of something like this, unless you have an urgent medical need, don't start calling the Police or us to say that you're stuck, WE KNOW! all you'd be doing is blocking the phone lines up, you'll get moved as soon as people can get the traffic moving etc.
All of the above needed to be learnt by a lot of those drivers last night. We had people run out of fuel, no coats, flatten their batteries sat with headlights on, diabetics with no food, a pensioner with a heart attack (did he REALLY need to travel? hell of a job getting medical help to him!)
If the weather forecast says that bad weather is expected, cancel the journey if you can, if not check the internet, or the HA website, or app.
To keep the road running even with grit down, you need a certain amount of traffic running over the c/way to make the salt work, if there's not enough traffic running over the tarmac, then the snow wins, full stop! This is basically what happens, the traffic comes to a halt, the snow is still falling, no-one is going anywhere!
I drove through that at approx 9:15pm on my way to work, but I did have the vehicle to do it in, a fully off-road prepared Discovery. I did stop with a few HGV and managed to straighten a couple up, but no chance of dragging them any further.
Once traffic is blocked, if snow is still falling, there is nothing you can do except close it, and then attempt to get at least one lane open, by either getting vehicles going, or moving them over to allow a way through, once a lane starts to move, you can then get a snow plough /gritter through down that lane, making it even better to run, the gritter will also throw grit to the side into the next lane, and with willing hands and assistance slowly but surely get more lanes running as you free traffic into the running lane. I got to the control room approx 15 minutes late, but once at the desk, never moved all shift, in the 7 years I've been in the job, I've never had a night like it. We had similar problems on the M61, the M57 & the M53, Our afternoon traffic officer shift (HATOs) didn't go home, but worked on throughout the night alongside the nightshift crews until all routes had been reopened, the M6 N/B J26-27 being the last one at around 5am.
It would help if drivers had brains, learn to drive in bad conditions on a deserted car park somewhere, when going out, take extra clothes, wear decent shoes for walking about in the stuff, take a flask, take a spade, if you have any medical conditions, make sure you have some medication with you, charge up your mobile phone, make sure you have more than enough fuel, listen to the local radio for traffic updates, if you see the signals that the c/way is closed, just because there is no-one physically there to stand in front of you, don't enter the motorway past those signals or you'll just be adding to the chaos. If you're stuck in snow in the middle of something like this, unless you have an urgent medical need, don't start calling the Police or us to say that you're stuck, WE KNOW! all you'd be doing is blocking the phone lines up, you'll get moved as soon as people can get the traffic moving etc.
All of the above needed to be learnt by a lot of those drivers last night. We had people run out of fuel, no coats, flatten their batteries sat with headlights on, diabetics with no food, a pensioner with a heart attack (did he REALLY need to travel? hell of a job getting medical help to him!)
If the weather forecast says that bad weather is expected, cancel the journey if you can, if not check the internet, or the HA website, or app.
Edited by Gafferjim on Saturday 26th January 13:47
Gafferjim said:
It would help if drivers had brains, learn to drive in bad conditions on a deserted car park somewhere, when going out, take extra clothes, wear decent shoes for walking about in the stuff, take a flask, take a spade, if you have any medical conditions, make sure you have some medication with you, charge up your mobile phone, make sure you have more than enough fuel, listen to the local radio for traffic updates, if you see the signals that the c/way is closed, just because there is no-one physically there to stand in front of you, don't enter the motorway past those signals or you'll just be adding to the chaos.
All of the above needed to be learnt by a lot of those drivers last night. We had people run out of fuel, no coats, flatten their batteries sat with headlights on, diabetics with no food, a pensioner with a heart attack (did he REALLY need to travel? hell of a job getting medical help to him!)
If the weather forecast says that bad weather is expected, cancel the journey if you can, if not check the internet, or the HA website, or app.
I think there's a lot of truth in that. I was out in the Midlands last night where I wasn't expecting anything on the scale of that but I still chucked a pair of wellies, some gloves, water, and some warm clothing (that could also double as blankets) with me as I was working on the principle if I did get caught out, even in a Freelander which should be reasonably capable, fAll of the above needed to be learnt by a lot of those drivers last night. We had people run out of fuel, no coats, flatten their batteries sat with headlights on, diabetics with no food, a pensioner with a heart attack (did he REALLY need to travel? hell of a job getting medical help to him!)
If the weather forecast says that bad weather is expected, cancel the journey if you can, if not check the internet, or the HA website, or app.
k it I'm just going to take my time and worst case rest/sleep in the car until it cleared.From my very limited knowledge of how these things work, I don't see how the authorities could have done much more on the motorways tbh.
ArsE92 said:
Anyone else stuck? Been here about 30 minutes now. Near Chorley. 
Is this the Lorry that you was sitting behind? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21208981
matc said:
fjord said:
The Game said:
What jct are you at?
This is jct 27
'tis a small world...This is jct 27
It looked truly horrendous! The one thing that did seem crazy was the way the trucks blocked off the whole motorway; surely they should have been trying to stay in lane 1&2? (awaits flaming from truck drivers everywhere!)
I apologise, but it's not actually me, it's a close friend who posted it facebook. I used to work with him, but i couldnt pass off the opportunity to not post it here. He was equally stunned when i posted this photo to him
I think he got dug out by the army, highways agency and mountain rescue. Took him 7 hours from liverpool.
mollytherocker said:
fjord said:
The Game said:
What jct are you at?
This is jct 27
'tis a small world...This is jct 27
Gafferjim said:
It would help if drivers had brains, learn to drive in bad conditions on a deserted car park somewhere, when going out, take extra clothes, wear decent shoes for walking about in the stuff, take a flask, take a spade, if you have any medical conditions, make sure you have some medication with you, charge up your mobile phone, make sure you have more than enough fuel, listen to the local radio for traffic updates, if you see the signals that the c/way is closed, just because there is no-one physically there to stand in front of you, don't enter the motorway past those signals or you'll just be adding to the chaos.
All of the above needed to be learnt by a lot of those drivers last night. We had people run out of fuel, no coats, flatten their batteries sat with headlights on, diabetics with no food, a pensioner with a heart attack (did he REALLY need to travel? hell of a job getting medical help to him!)
If the weather forecast says that bad weather is expected, cancel the journey if you can, if not check the internet, or the HA website, or app.
Unfortunately, very few people even seem to consider that things may go a bit less than smoothly and probably assume that a mobile phone will solve any problem they may encounter. I doubt that many people have anything like a shovel or decent footwear in their boot.All of the above needed to be learnt by a lot of those drivers last night. We had people run out of fuel, no coats, flatten their batteries sat with headlights on, diabetics with no food, a pensioner with a heart attack (did he REALLY need to travel? hell of a job getting medical help to him!)
If the weather forecast says that bad weather is expected, cancel the journey if you can, if not check the internet, or the HA website, or app.
Very few people seem to have even a basic grasp of anything "technical". General ignorance of how to drive in less than perfect weather appears to be the norm. Tail-gating in severe weather seems to be also appears to be accepted practice.
ps. "Learning to drive" on a deserted car park probably runs the risk of being reprimanded by the Police these days!
Gafferjim said:
A lot of good stuff !
Jim, well done to you and everyone else helping out, paid or not.The diabetics without food/insulin should be f
ked, then fked again, then fked again !You have to help them, or they could become very seriously ill, but for f
ks sake !It must be the easiest condition in the world to control, but one day I know I will need help, just on the balance of probabilites, and the careless w
kers who think they are special somehow, just fk it up for the majority of us, I ALWAYS have enough kit for at least 24 hours, just absolutely fking always, I don't even walk into town without my kit.If you look at the diabetic forums, as I do, you'd be amazed that DVLA let any of us hold driving licences !
Well done again on your efforts mate.
Gafferjim said:
For all on this thread, the motorway had been gritted not long prior to this lot happening, but you only need to get 1 vehicle (HGV or otherwise) stuck & slidding about trying to get going, with other vehicles stopped as drivers tried to assist each other, the snow was really coming down bad, so after a few minutes with no movement of traffic, it just becomes worse and if HGV's try to move, the rear axle on the unit is the drive axle, the wheels spin and start to slide sideways on the path of least resistance, ie towards the H/S or central res, depending on which lane you're in, this makes the HGV jack-knife as you can see from the photos, and there's bugger-all the driver can do about it.
To keep the road running even with grit down, you need a certain amount of traffic running over the c/way to make the salt work, if there's not enough traffic running over the tarmac, then the snow wins, full stop! This is basically what happens, the traffic comes to a halt, the snow is still falling, no-one is going anywhere!
I drove through that at approx 9:15pm on my way to work, but I did have the vehicle to do it in, a fully off-road prepared Discovery. I did stop with a few HGV and managed to straighten a couple up, but no chance of dragging them any further.
Once traffic is blocked, if snow is still falling, there is nothing you can do except close it, and then attempt to get at least one lane open, by either getting vehicles going, or moving them over to allow a way through, once a lane starts to move, you can then get a snow plough /gritter through down that lane, making it even better to run, the gritter will also throw grit to the side into the next lane, and with willing hands and assistance slowly but surely get more lanes running as you free traffic into the running lane. I got to the control room approx 15 minutes late, but once at the desk, never moved all shift, in the 7 years I've been in the job, I've never had a night like it. We had similar problems on the M61, the M57 & the M53, Our afternoon traffic officer shift (HATOs) didn't go home, but worked on throughout the night alongside the nightshift crews until all routes had been reopened, the M6 N/B J26-27 being the last one at around 5am.
It would help if drivers had brains, learn to drive in bad conditions on a deserted car park somewhere, when going out, take extra clothes, wear decent shoes for walking about in the stuff, take a flask, take a spade, if you have any medical conditions, make sure you have some medication with you, charge up your mobile phone, make sure you have more than enough fuel, listen to the local radio for traffic updates, if you see the signals that the c/way is closed, just because there is no-one physically there to stand in front of you, don't enter the motorway past those signals or you'll just be adding to the chaos. If you're stuck in snow in the middle of something like this, unless you have an urgent medical need, don't start calling the Police or us to say that you're stuck, WE KNOW! all you'd be doing is blocking the phone lines up, you'll get moved as soon as people can get the traffic moving etc.
All of the above needed to be learnt by a lot of those drivers last night. We had people run out of fuel, no coats, flatten their batteries sat with headlights on, diabetics with no food, a pensioner with a heart attack (did he REALLY need to travel? hell of a job getting medical help to him!)
If the weather forecast says that bad weather is expected, cancel the journey if you can, if not check the internet, or the HA website, or app.
Well said, and thanks for everything you and your guys did.To keep the road running even with grit down, you need a certain amount of traffic running over the c/way to make the salt work, if there's not enough traffic running over the tarmac, then the snow wins, full stop! This is basically what happens, the traffic comes to a halt, the snow is still falling, no-one is going anywhere!
I drove through that at approx 9:15pm on my way to work, but I did have the vehicle to do it in, a fully off-road prepared Discovery. I did stop with a few HGV and managed to straighten a couple up, but no chance of dragging them any further.
Once traffic is blocked, if snow is still falling, there is nothing you can do except close it, and then attempt to get at least one lane open, by either getting vehicles going, or moving them over to allow a way through, once a lane starts to move, you can then get a snow plough /gritter through down that lane, making it even better to run, the gritter will also throw grit to the side into the next lane, and with willing hands and assistance slowly but surely get more lanes running as you free traffic into the running lane. I got to the control room approx 15 minutes late, but once at the desk, never moved all shift, in the 7 years I've been in the job, I've never had a night like it. We had similar problems on the M61, the M57 & the M53, Our afternoon traffic officer shift (HATOs) didn't go home, but worked on throughout the night alongside the nightshift crews until all routes had been reopened, the M6 N/B J26-27 being the last one at around 5am.
It would help if drivers had brains, learn to drive in bad conditions on a deserted car park somewhere, when going out, take extra clothes, wear decent shoes for walking about in the stuff, take a flask, take a spade, if you have any medical conditions, make sure you have some medication with you, charge up your mobile phone, make sure you have more than enough fuel, listen to the local radio for traffic updates, if you see the signals that the c/way is closed, just because there is no-one physically there to stand in front of you, don't enter the motorway past those signals or you'll just be adding to the chaos. If you're stuck in snow in the middle of something like this, unless you have an urgent medical need, don't start calling the Police or us to say that you're stuck, WE KNOW! all you'd be doing is blocking the phone lines up, you'll get moved as soon as people can get the traffic moving etc.
All of the above needed to be learnt by a lot of those drivers last night. We had people run out of fuel, no coats, flatten their batteries sat with headlights on, diabetics with no food, a pensioner with a heart attack (did he REALLY need to travel? hell of a job getting medical help to him!)
If the weather forecast says that bad weather is expected, cancel the journey if you can, if not check the internet, or the HA website, or app.
Edited by Gafferjim on Saturday 26th January 13:47
In hindsight, I made a poor decision to carry on with the journey when I was still in Edinburgh and Sally-Traffic announced that it was already bad "on the M6 through Cumbria". I should have turned around, gone to the pub, and either got the train down this morning or drove.
Anyway, I've been out today and had some fun with DSC off, so I love snow again
ben_h100 said:
ArsE92 said:
Cheers Barbon.
Mountain Rescue guys are here checking everyone is OK.
Did you note which MR team? Probably not the first thing on your mind, but interested if you know.Mountain Rescue guys are here checking everyone is OK.
s p a c e m a n said:
Yep, that was the one!ArsE92 said:
ben_h100 said:
ArsE92 said:
Cheers Barbon.
Mountain Rescue guys are here checking everyone is OK.
Did you note which MR team? Probably not the first thing on your mind, but interested if you know.Mountain Rescue guys are here checking everyone is OK.
Gafferjim said:
For all on this thread, the motorway had been gritted not long prior to this lot happening, but you only need to get 1 vehicle (HGV or otherwise) stuck & slidding about trying to get going, with other vehicles stopped as drivers tried to assist each other, the snow was really coming down bad, so after a few minutes with no movement of traffic, it just becomes worse and if HGV's try to move, the rear axle on the unit is the drive axle, the wheels spin and start to slide sideways on the path of least resistance, ie towards the H/S or central res, depending on which lane you're in, this makes the HGV jack-knife as you can see from the photos, and there's bugger-all the driver can do about it.
To keep the road running even with grit down, you need a certain amount of traffic running over the c/way to make the salt work, if there's not enough traffic running over the tarmac, then the snow wins, full stop! This is basically what happens, the traffic comes to a halt, the snow is still falling, no-one is going anywhere!
I drove through that at approx 9:15pm on my way to work, but I did have the vehicle to do it in, a fully off-road prepared Discovery. I did stop with a few HGV and managed to straighten a couple up, but no chance of dragging them any further.
Once traffic is blocked, if snow is still falling, there is nothing you can do except close it, and then attempt to get at least one lane open, by either getting vehicles going, or moving them over to allow a way through, once a lane starts to move, you can then get a snow plough /gritter through down that lane, making it even better to run, the gritter will also throw grit to the side into the next lane, and with willing hands and assistance slowly but surely get more lanes running as you free traffic into the running lane. I got to the control room approx 15 minutes late, but once at the desk, never moved all shift, in the 7 years I've been in the job, I've never had a night like it. We had similar problems on the M61, the M57 & the M53, Our afternoon traffic officer shift (HATOs) didn't go home, but worked on throughout the night alongside the nightshift crews until all routes had been reopened, the M6 N/B J26-27 being the last one at around 5am.
It would help if drivers had brains, learn to drive in bad conditions on a deserted car park somewhere, when going out, take extra clothes, wear decent shoes for walking about in the stuff, take a flask, take a spade, if you have any medical conditions, make sure you have some medication with you, charge up your mobile phone, make sure you have more than enough fuel, listen to the local radio for traffic updates, if you see the signals that the c/way is closed, just because there is no-one physically there to stand in front of you, don't enter the motorway past those signals or you'll just be adding to the chaos. If you're stuck in snow in the middle of something like this, unless you have an urgent medical need, don't start calling the Police or us to say that you're stuck, WE KNOW! all you'd be doing is blocking the phone lines up, you'll get moved as soon as people can get the traffic moving etc.
All of the above needed to be learnt by a lot of those drivers last night. We had people run out of fuel, no coats, flatten their batteries sat with headlights on, diabetics with no food, a pensioner with a heart attack (did he REALLY need to travel? hell of a job getting medical help to him!)
If the weather forecast says that bad weather is expected, cancel the journey if you can, if not check the internet, or the HA website, or app.
You're right, but it would seem that the closure problems are often caused by hgvs having problems leading to other issues?. Maybe there should be some consideration to some of these guys pulling up and parking up? Maybe some protocol looked at like the operation stack system on the run to Dover? When you see ice road truckers etc, why don't these guys carry snow chains, seem to work on the show? Are the ice road truckers on any special tyres does anyone know? To keep the road running even with grit down, you need a certain amount of traffic running over the c/way to make the salt work, if there's not enough traffic running over the tarmac, then the snow wins, full stop! This is basically what happens, the traffic comes to a halt, the snow is still falling, no-one is going anywhere!
I drove through that at approx 9:15pm on my way to work, but I did have the vehicle to do it in, a fully off-road prepared Discovery. I did stop with a few HGV and managed to straighten a couple up, but no chance of dragging them any further.
Once traffic is blocked, if snow is still falling, there is nothing you can do except close it, and then attempt to get at least one lane open, by either getting vehicles going, or moving them over to allow a way through, once a lane starts to move, you can then get a snow plough /gritter through down that lane, making it even better to run, the gritter will also throw grit to the side into the next lane, and with willing hands and assistance slowly but surely get more lanes running as you free traffic into the running lane. I got to the control room approx 15 minutes late, but once at the desk, never moved all shift, in the 7 years I've been in the job, I've never had a night like it. We had similar problems on the M61, the M57 & the M53, Our afternoon traffic officer shift (HATOs) didn't go home, but worked on throughout the night alongside the nightshift crews until all routes had been reopened, the M6 N/B J26-27 being the last one at around 5am.
It would help if drivers had brains, learn to drive in bad conditions on a deserted car park somewhere, when going out, take extra clothes, wear decent shoes for walking about in the stuff, take a flask, take a spade, if you have any medical conditions, make sure you have some medication with you, charge up your mobile phone, make sure you have more than enough fuel, listen to the local radio for traffic updates, if you see the signals that the c/way is closed, just because there is no-one physically there to stand in front of you, don't enter the motorway past those signals or you'll just be adding to the chaos. If you're stuck in snow in the middle of something like this, unless you have an urgent medical need, don't start calling the Police or us to say that you're stuck, WE KNOW! all you'd be doing is blocking the phone lines up, you'll get moved as soon as people can get the traffic moving etc.
All of the above needed to be learnt by a lot of those drivers last night. We had people run out of fuel, no coats, flatten their batteries sat with headlights on, diabetics with no food, a pensioner with a heart attack (did he REALLY need to travel? hell of a job getting medical help to him!)
If the weather forecast says that bad weather is expected, cancel the journey if you can, if not check the internet, or the HA website, or app.
Edited by Gafferjim on Saturday 26th January 13:47
s3fella said:
Gafferjim said:
For all on this thread, the motorway had been gritted not long prior to this lot happening, but you only need to get 1 vehicle (HGV or otherwise) stuck & slidding about trying to get going, with other vehicles stopped as drivers tried to assist each other, the snow was really coming down bad, so after a few minutes with no movement of traffic, it just becomes worse and if HGV's try to move, the rear axle on the unit is the drive axle, the wheels spin and start to slide sideways on the path of least resistance, ie towards the H/S or central res, depending on which lane you're in, this makes the HGV jack-knife as you can see from the photos, and there's bugger-all the driver can do about it.
To keep the road running even with grit down, you need a certain amount of traffic running over the c/way to make the salt work, if there's not enough traffic running over the tarmac, then the snow wins, full stop! This is basically what happens, the traffic comes to a halt, the snow is still falling, no-one is going anywhere!
I drove through that at approx 9:15pm on my way to work, but I did have the vehicle to do it in, a fully off-road prepared Discovery. I did stop with a few HGV and managed to straighten a couple up, but no chance of dragging them any further.
Once traffic is blocked, if snow is still falling, there is nothing you can do except close it, and then attempt to get at least one lane open, by either getting vehicles going, or moving them over to allow a way through, once a lane starts to move, you can then get a snow plough /gritter through down that lane, making it even better to run, the gritter will also throw grit to the side into the next lane, and with willing hands and assistance slowly but surely get more lanes running as you free traffic into the running lane. I got to the control room approx 15 minutes late, but once at the desk, never moved all shift, in the 7 years I've been in the job, I've never had a night like it. We had similar problems on the M61, the M57 & the M53, Our afternoon traffic officer shift (HATOs) didn't go home, but worked on throughout the night alongside the nightshift crews until all routes had been reopened, the M6 N/B J26-27 being the last one at around 5am.
It would help if drivers had brains, learn to drive in bad conditions on a deserted car park somewhere, when going out, take extra clothes, wear decent shoes for walking about in the stuff, take a flask, take a spade, if you have any medical conditions, make sure you have some medication with you, charge up your mobile phone, make sure you have more than enough fuel, listen to the local radio for traffic updates, if you see the signals that the c/way is closed, just because there is no-one physically there to stand in front of you, don't enter the motorway past those signals or you'll just be adding to the chaos. If you're stuck in snow in the middle of something like this, unless you have an urgent medical need, don't start calling the Police or us to say that you're stuck, WE KNOW! all you'd be doing is blocking the phone lines up, you'll get moved as soon as people can get the traffic moving etc.
All of the above needed to be learnt by a lot of those drivers last night. We had people run out of fuel, no coats, flatten their batteries sat with headlights on, diabetics with no food, a pensioner with a heart attack (did he REALLY need to travel? hell of a job getting medical help to him!)
If the weather forecast says that bad weather is expected, cancel the journey if you can, if not check the internet, or the HA website, or app.
You're right, but it would seem that the closure problems are often caused by hgvs having problems leading to other issues?. Maybe there should be some consideration to some of these guys pulling up and parking up? Maybe some protocol looked at like the operation stack system on the run to Dover? When you see ice road truckers etc, why don't these guys carry snow chains, seem to work on the show? Are the ice road truckers on any special tyres does anyone know? To keep the road running even with grit down, you need a certain amount of traffic running over the c/way to make the salt work, if there's not enough traffic running over the tarmac, then the snow wins, full stop! This is basically what happens, the traffic comes to a halt, the snow is still falling, no-one is going anywhere!
I drove through that at approx 9:15pm on my way to work, but I did have the vehicle to do it in, a fully off-road prepared Discovery. I did stop with a few HGV and managed to straighten a couple up, but no chance of dragging them any further.
Once traffic is blocked, if snow is still falling, there is nothing you can do except close it, and then attempt to get at least one lane open, by either getting vehicles going, or moving them over to allow a way through, once a lane starts to move, you can then get a snow plough /gritter through down that lane, making it even better to run, the gritter will also throw grit to the side into the next lane, and with willing hands and assistance slowly but surely get more lanes running as you free traffic into the running lane. I got to the control room approx 15 minutes late, but once at the desk, never moved all shift, in the 7 years I've been in the job, I've never had a night like it. We had similar problems on the M61, the M57 & the M53, Our afternoon traffic officer shift (HATOs) didn't go home, but worked on throughout the night alongside the nightshift crews until all routes had been reopened, the M6 N/B J26-27 being the last one at around 5am.
It would help if drivers had brains, learn to drive in bad conditions on a deserted car park somewhere, when going out, take extra clothes, wear decent shoes for walking about in the stuff, take a flask, take a spade, if you have any medical conditions, make sure you have some medication with you, charge up your mobile phone, make sure you have more than enough fuel, listen to the local radio for traffic updates, if you see the signals that the c/way is closed, just because there is no-one physically there to stand in front of you, don't enter the motorway past those signals or you'll just be adding to the chaos. If you're stuck in snow in the middle of something like this, unless you have an urgent medical need, don't start calling the Police or us to say that you're stuck, WE KNOW! all you'd be doing is blocking the phone lines up, you'll get moved as soon as people can get the traffic moving etc.
All of the above needed to be learnt by a lot of those drivers last night. We had people run out of fuel, no coats, flatten their batteries sat with headlights on, diabetics with no food, a pensioner with a heart attack (did he REALLY need to travel? hell of a job getting medical help to him!)
If the weather forecast says that bad weather is expected, cancel the journey if you can, if not check the internet, or the HA website, or app.
Edited by Gafferjim on Saturday 26th January 13:47
As to why UK truckers don't fit them or carry chains, I guess it's the same reason why the whole country comes to a halt when it snows. What's the point of carrying something or fitting something that's only going to be used a couple of days (sometimes never) out of 365 of the year?
Everyone always moans that the rest of Europe copes, well yeah places like Sweden, Finland even Russia do, because the snow and ice is a certainty and a certainty for the majority of Winter. It makes sense for them to all fit Winter tyres, carry chains, socks, spend millions on equipment because if they didn't nothing would run for 3-6 months and not 3-6 hours.
It just isn't financially viable for the UK to spend all that money on snow equipment, what would be the point of Heathrow spending millions on more equipment for it to only be used a handful of times before it has to be scrapped? It's just going to sit in a garage for another 363 days rusting away before it sees the light of day again.
Gafferjim said:
...It would help if drivers had brains, learn to drive in bad conditions...
Jim, for those who do go prepared with chains/winters etc. is it allowed to fit them and use the hard shoulder? or is it as all other situations that it's still out of bounds to all except the emergency services?How would vehicles with chains get out of these situations or would they have to sit with the rest and simply put up with it?
Ranger 6 said:
Gafferjim said:
...It would help if drivers had brains, learn to drive in bad conditions...
Jim, for those who do go prepared with chains/winters etc. is it allowed to fit them and use the hard shoulder? or is it as all other situations that it's still out of bounds to all except the emergency services?How would vehicles with chains get out of these situations or would they have to sit with the rest and simply put up with it?
If you end up blocking the HS somehow it'll be a total nightmare for the emergency services trying to get help to the most vulnerable.
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