RE: Spotted: BMW 320Si
Discussion
Dan Trent said:
Paul M said:
I would have thought that the author would have answered for himself.
Apologies for being late to the party with a response but, to answer your point, I guess the comparison I was making was that both the E30 M3 and Si share a common thread in that they were road cars built to homologate their racing equivalents. I don't imply that they're necessarily similar to drive, comparable in performance or, indeed, the depth or extend of the modifications. As a true M car the M3 is a much more heavily upgraded car with extensive changes throughout. As has already been pointed out, the 320Si was basically a normal 3 Series shell with a homologation engine and - in terms of its position in the range and the performance relative to other models - indeed probably a closer match to the 318iS in spirit. I was being a bit cheeky/provocative saying it was the true successor to the E30 M3 but, hell, it got everyone chatting didn't it! My *personal* enthusiasm for this car is that for all the conventional looks and lack of modification elsewhere it's packing a carbon-topped race engine with direct links to the WTCC car. That's novelty enough for me. Not everyone, clearly, and I can understand why the lack of on-paper performance isn't to universal taste.
Yes, to answer an earlier point, I'd probably be better off with a re-mapped 320d my any rational measure. But PH isn't about rational approaches to choosing cars is it. Which is why *I* love this car and felt moved to write a story on it in the hope a few others would too.
Hope that answers the points you raise!
Cheers,
Dan
yonex said:
Paul M said:
Agreed.
There seems to be a number of people getting a little over zealous as to what has been criticism and what has been difference of opinion (there is a difference)It's ironic that some of their own comments have actually been critical of others expressing their opinions! So be it because it's all contributed to the reason we all take part here - Discussion..... That's just my opinion
There seems to be a number of people getting a little over zealous as to what has been criticism and what has been difference of opinion (there is a difference)It's ironic that some of their own comments have actually been critical of others expressing their opinions! So be it because it's all contributed to the reason we all take part here - Discussion..... That's just my opinion
If so many people loved the car why wasn't it more of a success? Standard response from people who need to be grumpy about something.People are getting hung up on the car's current value. It was sold new for less than a boggo 320i. Lots of the criticism in this thread is completely misplaced given what the car sold for when new.
timmartin said:
i currently have one of these, had it for about a year. no problems... so far (44k on clock) its a good looking car. The wheels on some E90 models looking too small, these larger BMW motorsport decaled rims make it sit much better.
its stops good enough because of the bigger brakes. The engine drives ok in normal driving, but you do have to stir the box when pushing on the A and B roads. that is where the fun is. The four pot gives good torque at the top end and a bit of heel-and-toe into fast roundabouts puts a smile on my face (and my previous car was a Cayman S!).
its not going to set the road alight or keep up with some of the newer hot hatches but this car has plenty of fun if you know how to drive it. Just like in motor racing, its not all about huge grunt, its handling and keeping up momemtum, this does these quite well.
. This^, the si will carry speed through the bends like no other 3 of that shape, fact!its stops good enough because of the bigger brakes. The engine drives ok in normal driving, but you do have to stir the box when pushing on the A and B roads. that is where the fun is. The four pot gives good torque at the top end and a bit of heel-and-toe into fast roundabouts puts a smile on my face (and my previous car was a Cayman S!).
its not going to set the road alight or keep up with some of the newer hot hatches but this car has plenty of fun if you know how to drive it. Just like in motor racing, its not all about huge grunt, its handling and keeping up momemtum, this does these quite well.
antilag said:
Good article Dan and I agree, what other homoligation specials have bmw done between this and the e30?
Was the E46 M3 GTR a sort of special? They had to build 10 road ones didn't they to be eligible for 2001 ALMS series?Could you include the South African E30 325iS EVO 1 and 2 - they came after the introduction of the E30 M3, maybe the E30 333i which was before though
IainW said:
The WTCC homologation process gets quite complicated when you look at the Chevy Lacetti, which didn't have a special model. But instead had various waivers from the FIA to make it competitive, such as a flat floor, wider track and used an engine which had it's origins in the Vauxhall redtop.
IIRC Swindon Race Engines were involved with the engine in the Lacetti, and it had more than just its origins in the venerable redtop ... Anyone popping the bonnet would recognise the familiar lump with it's L shaped plug lead cover.
There was some tenuous link to a model in the range that wasn't available over here that used the engine, and so they were allowed to run it.
It was a far better starting point for an engine than any of the competitors emission strangled modern units, and gave "a significant" horsepower advantage to the cars.
s m said:
antilag said:
Good article Dan and I agree, what other homoligation specials have bmw done between this and the e30?
Was the E46 M3 GTR a sort of special? They had to build 10 road ones didn't they to be eligible for 2001 ALMS series?Could you include the South African E30 325iS EVO 1 and 2 - they came after the introduction of the E30 M3, maybe the E30 333i which was before though
BMW specials from the E30 to date. Though was has there been anything after the Z4 GT3?
Agent Orange said:
s m said:
antilag said:
Good article Dan and I agree, what other homoligation specials have bmw done between this and the e30?
Was the E46 M3 GTR a sort of special? They had to build 10 road ones didn't they to be eligible for 2001 ALMS series?Could you include the South African E30 325iS EVO 1 and 2 - they came after the introduction of the E30 M3, maybe the E30 333i which was before though
BMW specials from the E30 to date. Though was has there been anything after the Z4 GT3?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=575T-v_F_4E
Go to about 3:20 to see the homologation specials
Edited by s m on Friday 1st February 10:29
simonigrale said:
I drove one once. It made a lot of noise and didn't really go anywhere.
I think for this type of car you would rather have a diesel.
I appreciate the motorsport connection and the lighter engine ect. but anyone buying this type of car would want a diesel surely.
You don't want to be revving the b
ks off a 3 series saloon with the family in the car. You'd want to be pushing on with effortless torque....
Its only 20 hp more than the 320i and 10 kilos lighter.
If you were wanting to spend sub 10k on a special 3 series this is the car....
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2012...
The stats speak for themselves, plus the Alpina suspension set up is much better on UK roads.
And when the family are not in the car? I think for this type of car you would rather have a diesel.
I appreciate the motorsport connection and the lighter engine ect. but anyone buying this type of car would want a diesel surely.
You don't want to be revving the b
ks off a 3 series saloon with the family in the car. You'd want to be pushing on with effortless torque....Its only 20 hp more than the 320i and 10 kilos lighter.
If you were wanting to spend sub 10k on a special 3 series this is the car....
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2012...
The stats speak for themselves, plus the Alpina suspension set up is much better on UK roads.
Edited by simonigrale on Wednesday 30th January 11:44
s m said:
Anyone remember the Lagunas with the 'Airflow' package - they just homologated the aero aids didn't they?
Yeah, that was all. It wasn't anything special to look at. Somebody I worked with had one. BMW did a special too for their second half of 94 aero kit. mat205125 said:
IIRC Swindon Race Engines were involved with the engine in the Lacetti, and it had more than just its origins in the venerable redtop ... Anyone popping the bonnet would recognise the familiar lump with it's L shaped plug lead cover.
There was some tenuous link to a model in the range that wasn't available over here that used the engine, and so they were allowed to run it.
It was a far better starting point for an engine than any of the competitors emission strangled modern units, and gave "a significant" horsepower advantage to the cars.
I was having a clearout earlier and found a BMW WTCC guide for 2007. It basically said the 320si existed as "a good basis for a WTCC car". Meaning it didn't need to be pumping out 300bhp or anything else, as long as it had the mods enabling them to use a 'standard' engine for their racing version.
IainW said:
I was having a clearout earlier and found a BMW WTCC guide for 2007. It basically said the 320si existed as "a good basis for a WTCC car". Meaning it didn't need to be pumping out 300bhp or anything else, as long as it had the mods enabling them to use a 'standard' engine for their racing version.
That's true, the very point of homologation specials. The mods are there so they can improve their chance of winning at racing/rallying etc. As per the RS500, no better and in some ways worse than the standard car, it enabled them to win Touring Car races that they wouldn't have done with the old carI for one love the 'sleeper' aspect of these.
Saw one on eBay only a few months back. Knackered engine which, judging by the forum link that appeared in this thread earlier, is not uncommon. Probably best I didn't bid, despite finishing up about £3.5k! I reasoned a cylinder head would probably be akin to rocking horse sh*t . . .
I had fantastic daydreams about running it as a daily at the time. The idea that everyone would think it was a 320d and I would know better!
Saw one on eBay only a few months back. Knackered engine which, judging by the forum link that appeared in this thread earlier, is not uncommon. Probably best I didn't bid, despite finishing up about £3.5k! I reasoned a cylinder head would probably be akin to rocking horse sh*t . . .
I had fantastic daydreams about running it as a daily at the time. The idea that everyone would think it was a 320d and I would know better!
C36 Nico said:
I really want one of these, swedish guy has 181 bhp at the wheels with only minor mods.
Should make for a great daily.
Is that really going to feel all that sprightly in a car that (I'm guessing!) weighs as much as or more than a 6-pot E36? That's still less power than a E36 328i... obviously gear ratios have a difference to the delivery but are they any different from other 3ers of this model? Should make for a great daily.
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