John 'O' Groats To Lands End - Our Story & Potential Record?
Discussion
Bumblebee7 said:
Don't forget we're talking about a bloke who couldn't even safely connect the aux tank to the main. He's fortunate he didn't die in a blazing inferno so I can see how he didn't think especially hard about covering his tracks and taking precautions against getting caught.
I suppose you are right. I'm clearly expecting too much of a guy who uses a bit of garden hose and bathroom sealant on an in-car fuel system.
I feel sorry for him that he busted, but really, it's his own fault for not using his brain a bit more.
irocfan said:
Schmed said:
Lord Marylebone said:
I'm sorry, but what a complete prat.
How could he have been so stupid to buy all those 'countermeasures' in his own name and address, and worse still, then keep them all and the car following the publicising of his record.
Absolutely asking to be prosecuted.
If it was me, I would have bought a cheap but capable car using cash, in a false name if possible, bought all the stuff like the flake plates and countermeasures using a fake name PayPal account/email address or using cash, and then when I had done the run, I would have simply scrapped the car to the dodgiest 'paperwork free' scrapyard I could find, and destroyed all evidence of the car or the countermeasures.
Anytime I used the internet to buy my countermeasures or tell my story I would have done it anonymously and using a wifi hotspot on a throwaway phone and pay as you go sim. I would have bought a disposable laptop just for the purposes of internet access for my crime.
I would even have bought a throwaway pay as you go mobile and left my real phone at home while I did the run. Everything during the run I would have used cash for as well, and worn a disguise such as glasses, cap, and grown a beard in case my face was seen on any CCTV or traffic cameras.
Isn't this all proper GCSE crime stuff?
You’ve clearly thought way too much about this... How could he have been so stupid to buy all those 'countermeasures' in his own name and address, and worse still, then keep them all and the car following the publicising of his record.
Absolutely asking to be prosecuted.
If it was me, I would have bought a cheap but capable car using cash, in a false name if possible, bought all the stuff like the flake plates and countermeasures using a fake name PayPal account/email address or using cash, and then when I had done the run, I would have simply scrapped the car to the dodgiest 'paperwork free' scrapyard I could find, and destroyed all evidence of the car or the countermeasures.
Anytime I used the internet to buy my countermeasures or tell my story I would have done it anonymously and using a wifi hotspot on a throwaway phone and pay as you go sim. I would have bought a disposable laptop just for the purposes of internet access for my crime.
I would even have bought a throwaway pay as you go mobile and left my real phone at home while I did the run. Everything during the run I would have used cash for as well, and worn a disguise such as glasses, cap, and grown a beard in case my face was seen on any CCTV or traffic cameras.
Isn't this all proper GCSE crime stuff?
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 2nd December 20:08
My list was the absolute bare minimum you would do. If you had a good think about it, there would be all manner of additional layers of protection you could incorporate. You just have to endlessly run all the 'What if' scenarios and come up with a solution to each one.
Take the buying countermeasures. Each step should contain an extra layer of security:
1) Buy using cash or a false PayPal email address.
2) Buy using a false name, address, and email.
3) When browsing the internet, ordering, or using your false email, use a cheap throwaway laptop.
4) When using the laptop, don't use it at your house on your wifi.
5) When accessing the internet to use the laptop, use a pay as you go phone, that was bought in cash, as your internet access hotspot.
6) Never switch the PAYG phone on within 10 miles of your house. Drive to a new location before turning the phone on or using the internet or laptop.
7) Never even use your home internet to google anything to do with the route, the car, or the preparation.
8) When finished with the laptop and phone, completely destroy them, wipe them of fingerprints and douse in bleach for DNA, and dispose of them at a dustbin at least 20 miles from your home.
To me, all that is obvious.
It's all about plausible deniability in court. So your solicitor can stand there and say:
"The prosecution claims my client committed this crime, yet they admit he never researched it on his computer, he never googled the route, he never bought any of the items you claim he might have used, his phone has never been tracked as being on this journey or any journey like it, he does not own a car that fits the description of the wanted vehicle, and yet you still claim he did it? The whole premise is laughable, you have only vague circumstantial evidence that he did it, and I ask the Jury to laugh this out of court when they give a verdict"
I'm not certain that it would ever make sense, in the UK, to admit to this run. Instead simply post your proof online, to the extent possible, and remain anonymous. Don't even reveal the brand of car.
The entire run falls within a unified jurisdiction. This is covered by a single or joined-up network of UK infrastructure and law enforcement that provides considerable opportunity for forensics. Furthermore, if you end up in court, the law is unequivocal that motoring is a privilege (and not a right) whilst granting a prominent, somewhat activist role to the state.
Even in the US, where the nation state is less empowered, I'd prefer anonymity.
I mean: This sort of driving is dangerous and antisocial, right.
I’m sure I’m underestimating it but it still doesn’t seem that fast if the <90mph is right? If your ignoring all laws and speed limits you could easily average 100mph from Inverness to Perth then onto the motorways were 120+ from Glasgow to Preston (we’re it’s empty during the day never mind night!) and all the way down to Exeter. Hard bits JOG to Inverness and Exeter onwards. I’m assuming one stop with an extra tank?
Glenn63 said:
I’m sure I’m underestimating it but it still doesn’t seem that fast if the <90mph is right? If your ignoring all laws and speed limits you could easily average 100mph from Inverness to Perth then onto the motorways were 120+ from Glasgow to Preston (we’re it’s empty during the day never mind night!) and all the way down to Exeter. Hard bits JOG to Inverness and Exeter onwards. I’m assuming one stop with an extra tank?
Two things:1) Hitting high speeds is easy. Obtaining a high average speed is really quite difficult by the time you factor in all the roads where you can’t do more than 40mph, or the roundabouts and junctions you have to slow for, or the stop for fuel etc.
It wouldn’t surprise me if he had to hit 120mph for a few stretches here and there to obtain the 90mph average
2) If you stuck to 100mph or so for the long stretches you stand a much lower chance of being noticed, than if you were sitting at 120, 130 etc. To motorway CCTV operators and other road users, 95-100mph is ‘someone in a hurry’.
130mph is ‘someone clearly breaking the law’ and those sort of speeds attract attention quite quickly.
Good point I suppose there is still the ‘under the radar’ approach for the public not to be ringing up plod and reporting you.
Edit: just looked Exeter to Inverness is a smidge over 600 miles of motorway/junction free road so assume 110 all the way to reduce attention, 70 average the other bits good going I bet!
Edit: just looked Exeter to Inverness is a smidge over 600 miles of motorway/junction free road so assume 110 all the way to reduce attention, 70 average the other bits good going I bet!
Edited by Glenn63 on Wednesday 2nd December 22:34
unsurprisingly, recording yourself on this type of gig and reporting it is a risky activity and there is not much sympathy when you get nailed. I have done plenty of autobahn stuff at very high legal speeds but no laws were broken. Detailing all of the countermeasures to avoid detection is not good.
Even in the good old US, I noticed when I copped a ticket that the officer took a hard look at the car to check for radar/laser detection ( all legal) , but they have a section on the ticket where they note the presence of the devices. Presumably will not give you any chance of leniency. As it happens I do not run this stuff .
Even in the good old US, I noticed when I copped a ticket that the officer took a hard look at the car to check for radar/laser detection ( all legal) , but they have a section on the ticket where they note the presence of the devices. Presumably will not give you any chance of leniency. As it happens I do not run this stuff .
RDMcG said:
unsurprisingly, recording yourself on this type of gig and reporting it is a risky activity and there is not much sympathy when you get nailed. I have done plenty of autobahn stuff at very high legal speeds but no laws were broken. Detailing all of the countermeasures to avoid detection is not good.
Even in the good old US, I noticed when I copped a ticket that the officer took a hard look at the car to check for radar/laser detection ( all legal) , but they have a section on the ticket where they note the presence of the devices. Presumably will not give you any chance of leniency. As it happens I do not run this stuff .
It turns out the best way to avoid a ticket in the US is to be a foreigner in a hire car....Even in the good old US, I noticed when I copped a ticket that the officer took a hard look at the car to check for radar/laser detection ( all legal) , but they have a section on the ticket where they note the presence of the devices. Presumably will not give you any chance of leniency. As it happens I do not run this stuff .
We had a big month long “road and plane” family trip 8 years back.... over 2,300 miles....over 5,000 pictures.....countless memories...
Anyway, about the longest drive had us spend 6 hours to Yosemite. Not outrageously speeding (85 in a 70, I recall), but suddenly was aware of flashing lights behind: rumbled
Anyway, out the car, staring at my British paper licence (yes, still entitled to use that
) & passport, hearing my grovelling apology, the fella ended up pointing out he would have to take me to a courthouse and spend all day there for a $400 fine, & decided to let me off with a warning.....then explained how he was only trying to keep the roads safe for people like us!....& sent on our merry way
Meanwhile, as for the twit in court for JoGLE.....what a prat.
Well it looks like this chap is having his 'moment in the sun'! (or at least The Mail!)
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9011225/D...
![](https://thumbsnap.com/sc/5EFqnFZr.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="https://thumbsnap.com/PqeAoNrD" Target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[img]https://thumbsnap.com/sc/PqeAoNrD.jpg)
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9011225/D...
Edited by alfaspecial on Thursday 3rd December 07:44
Glenn63 said:
I’m sure I’m underestimating it but it still doesn’t seem that fast if the <90mph is right? If your ignoring all laws and speed limits you could easily average 100mph from Inverness to Perth then onto the motorways were 120+ from Glasgow to Preston (we’re it’s empty during the day never mind night!) and all the way down to Exeter. Hard bits JOG to Inverness and Exeter onwards. I’m assuming one stop with an extra tank?
I think your way overestimating things there,Ive been travelling the A9 Inverness to Perth regularly for over 40 years and if anything it's getting slower, in my opinion I think it would be next to impossible to average 100mph between Inverness and Perth.The fastest I ever managed was 90 minutes and that's a long time ago.
I fail to see how either of them did the JOG to Inverness stage in the time they claim
On midsummer night back in the early nineties I once did Southwaite services M6 north to Inverness in a Mercedes 814 truck in 4 hours 10 minutes but the whole road was completely empty for some reason, I doubt I coul repeat that now in a car
Lord Marylebone said:
Exactly.
My list was the absolute bare minimum you would do. If you had a good think about it, there would be all manner of additional layers of protection you could incorporate. You just have to endlessly run all the 'What if' scenarios and come up with a solution to each one.
Take the buying countermeasures. Each step should contain an extra layer of security:
1) Buy using cash or a false PayPal email address.
2) Buy using a false name, address, and email.
3) When browsing the internet, ordering, or using your false email, use a cheap throwaway laptop.
4) When using the laptop, don't use it at your house on your wifi.
5) When accessing the internet to use the laptop, use a pay as you go phone, that was bought in cash, as your internet access hotspot.
6) Never switch the PAYG phone on within 10 miles of your house. Drive to a new location before turning the phone on or using the internet or laptop.
7) Never even use your home internet to google anything to do with the route, the car, or the preparation.
8) When finished with the laptop and phone, completely destroy them, wipe them of fingerprints and douse in bleach for DNA, and dispose of them at a dustbin at least 20 miles from your home.
To me, all that is obvious.
It's all about plausible deniability in court. So your solicitor can stand there and say:
"The prosecution claims my client committed this crime, yet they admit he never researched it on his computer, he never googled the route, he never bought any of the items you claim he might have used, his phone has never been tracked as being on this journey or any journey like it, he does not own a car that fits the description of the wanted vehicle, and yet you still claim he did it? The whole premise is laughable, you have only vague circumstantial evidence that he did it, and I ask the Jury to laugh this out of court when they give a verdict"
Doing all that just provides the prosecution with more evidence that you were seeking to pervert the course of justice.My list was the absolute bare minimum you would do. If you had a good think about it, there would be all manner of additional layers of protection you could incorporate. You just have to endlessly run all the 'What if' scenarios and come up with a solution to each one.
Take the buying countermeasures. Each step should contain an extra layer of security:
1) Buy using cash or a false PayPal email address.
2) Buy using a false name, address, and email.
3) When browsing the internet, ordering, or using your false email, use a cheap throwaway laptop.
4) When using the laptop, don't use it at your house on your wifi.
5) When accessing the internet to use the laptop, use a pay as you go phone, that was bought in cash, as your internet access hotspot.
6) Never switch the PAYG phone on within 10 miles of your house. Drive to a new location before turning the phone on or using the internet or laptop.
7) Never even use your home internet to google anything to do with the route, the car, or the preparation.
8) When finished with the laptop and phone, completely destroy them, wipe them of fingerprints and douse in bleach for DNA, and dispose of them at a dustbin at least 20 miles from your home.
To me, all that is obvious.
It's all about plausible deniability in court. So your solicitor can stand there and say:
"The prosecution claims my client committed this crime, yet they admit he never researched it on his computer, he never googled the route, he never bought any of the items you claim he might have used, his phone has never been tracked as being on this journey or any journey like it, he does not own a car that fits the description of the wanted vehicle, and yet you still claim he did it? The whole premise is laughable, you have only vague circumstantial evidence that he did it, and I ask the Jury to laugh this out of court when they give a verdict"
This idiot will be used as an example, with a heavy sentence to discourage others from attempting it in future.
Paul Dishman said:
Looks like the sticky stuff has hit the fan
https://twitter.com/road_ss/status/133417948360835...
Personally I'd have taken all the kit off the car as soon as I'd finished the run. Looks like pitsmansboots (Steve Callaghan) has grassed him up from PH
If someone from this Forum grassed up him , he should be permanently banned from the forum and a few of "the boys" should be sent round.https://twitter.com/road_ss/status/133417948360835...
Personally I'd have taken all the kit off the car as soon as I'd finished the run. Looks like pitsmansboots (Steve Callaghan) has grassed him up from PH
Why on earth would you snitch on someone like that?
I wonder if he goes into all of the articles on cars, and reports them to the police for "dangerous driving" when doing drifting pictures.
What a really odd world.
Von Luck said:
Doing all that just provides the prosecution with more evidence that you were seeking to pervert the course of justice.
This idiot will be used as an example, with a heavy sentence to discourage others from attempting it in future.
I think you missed my point slightly.This idiot will be used as an example, with a heavy sentence to discourage others from attempting it in future.
I meant: Do all the things I suggested, but don’t get caught doing them, and don’t ever admit to them.
They never existed.
Do the run, then before talking to anyone about it, destroy and dispose of every single last piece of evidence and equipment used.
What are the police left with after that? A GPS recording of the journey that could have been made by anyone? Some photos of a car parked at Lands End? Not exactly enough to go on is it?
This guy got caught because he foolishly kept the car that he used, complete with all the illegal gadgets fitted to it! All the Police had to do was walk onto his driveway and lift up the sheet that was covering it.
That is just asking to get busted.
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 3rd December 10:05
imagineifyeswill said:
Glenn63 said:
I’m sure I’m underestimating it but it still doesn’t seem that fast if the <90mph is right? If your ignoring all laws and speed limits you could easily average 100mph from Inverness to Perth then onto the motorways were 120+ from Glasgow to Preston (we’re it’s empty during the day never mind night!) and all the way down to Exeter. Hard bits JOG to Inverness and Exeter onwards. I’m assuming one stop with an extra tank?
I think your way overestimating things there,Ive been travelling the A9 Inverness to Perth regularly for over 40 years and if anything it's getting slower, in my opinion I think it would be next to impossible to average 100mph between Inverness and Perth.The fastest I ever managed was 90 minutes and that's a long time ago.
I fail to see how either of them did the JOG to Inverness stage in the time they claim
On midsummer night back in the early nineties I once did Southwaite services M6 north to Inverness in a Mercedes 814 truck in 4 hours 10 minutes but the whole road was completely empty for some reason, I doubt I coul repeat that now in a car
On a side note if you wanted to do LE-JOG just for the pleasure what routes will people take? Most scenic/ enjoyable/ sights to stop at? Something id like to do at some point.
Lord Marylebone said:
Von Luck said:
Doing all that just provides the prosecution with more evidence that you were seeking to pervert the course of justice.
This idiot will be used as an example, with a heavy sentence to discourage others from attempting it in future.
I think you missed my point slightly.This idiot will be used as an example, with a heavy sentence to discourage others from attempting it in future.
I meant: Do all the things I suggested, but don’t get caught doing them, and don’t ever admit to them.
They never existed.
Do the run, then before taking anyone about it, destroy and dispose of every single last piece of evidence and equipment used.
What are the police left with after that? A GPS recording of the journey that could have been made by anyone? Some photos of a car parked at Lands End? Not exactly enough to go on is it?
This guy got caught because he foolishly kept the car that he used, complete with all the illegal gadgets fitted to it! All the Police had to do was walk onto his driveway and lift up the sheet that was covering it.
That is just asking to get busted.
And now he's in the Daily Mail crowing about it, he's guaranteed a strong response from the system.
Fittster said:
320d is all you need said:
a few of "the boys" should be sent round.
What a really odd world.
You certainly appear to live in one.What a really odd world.
People were assaulted, cars vandalised etc.
Snitching is the lowest of low in my book. Especially to do so "anonymously" over the internet.
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