RE: VW confirms XL1 production

[CraigyMc]

Clivey said:

The real clever products are those from GM and Tesla.

Beg to differ.

The real clever products (currently) are the bluemotion/greenline/bluefficiency/ecotec/efficientdynamics ones, to my mind.

Good aerodynamics, diesel engine, details to reduce wastes of energy. The Tesla doesn't do this because it's compromised by weight and even with regen braking you don't get most of it back. GM aren't exactly leaders at diesel and I assume you're alluding to the volt which has the same problem as the tesla (& fisker).

C

[Clivey]

CraigyMc said:

Beg to differ.

The real clever products (currently) are the bluemotion/greenline/bluefficiency/ecotec/efficientdynamics ones, to my mind.

Good aerodynamics, diesel engine, details to reduce wastes of energy. The Tesla doesn't do this because it's compromised by weight and even with regen braking you don't get most of it back. GM aren't exactly leaders at diesel and I assume you're alluding to the volt which has the same problem as the tesla (& fisker).

C

The whole Eco diesel thing has been around for years now. - My family had an Astra Eco4 in 2001. 'Ecotec' is a generic GM name for petrol engines. - '90s Vectras etc. had those.

The battery-powered stuff like the Model S is the way forward. - If you look at objective tests, it seems to be a brilliant daily driver. The Volt is clever because it won't leave you stranded if you do decide to drive further. Batteries will get better and more efficient in time as with laptops etc (In the real world I can get over 6 hours out of my 2012 MacBook Pro i7 13"; my 2005 PowerBook G4 12" managed 3.5 with a smaller screen and less power).

[Mr Gear]

CraigyMc said:

Beg to differ.

The real clever products (currently) are the bluemotion/greenline/bluefficiency/ecotec/efficientdynamics ones, to my mind.

Good aerodynamics, diesel engine, details to reduce wastes of energy. The Tesla doesn't do this because it's compromised by weight and even with regen braking you don't get most of it back. GM aren't exactly leaders at diesel and I assume you're alluding to the volt which has the same problem as the tesla (& fisker).

C

You have to be kidding? The only reason VW have only just started doing hybrids is quite simply because they are 15 years behind the Japanese and desperately trying to catch up.

[CraigyMc]

Mr Gear said:

CraigyMc said:

Beg to differ.

The real clever products (currently) are the bluemotion/greenline/bluefficiency/ecotec/efficientdynamics ones, to my mind.

Good aerodynamics, diesel engine, details to reduce wastes of energy. The Tesla doesn't do this because it's compromised by weight and even with regen braking you don't get most of it back. GM aren't exactly leaders at diesel and I assume you're alluding to the volt which has the same problem as the tesla (& fisker).

C

You have to be kidding? The only reason VW have only just started doing hybrids is quite simply because they are 15 years behind the Japanese and desperately trying to catch up.

Nope, genuinely not kidding. I don't think batteries (at least weighing what they do at the moment) are a good way to store power for cars. Essentially, energy density is my concern.

C

[kambites]

There's nothing particularly clever about the various diesel eco-specials, just minor tweaks to aerodynamics and drivetrain that should probably have been made to the standard cars anyway.

Battery energy density certainly isn't great, but I still think it's the best interim solution we have for mass transport until someone comes up with something genuinely new.

[emicen]

I disagree.

I believe electric motors powering the wheels, small diesel engine operating a peak efficiency connected to a generator and smaller battery packs are the best solution available at present.

Essentially a diesel Prius with lower transmission losses.

[GroundEffect]

emicen said:

I disagree.

I believe electric motors powering the wheels, small diesel engine operating a peak efficiency connected to a generator and smaller battery packs are the best solution available at present.

Essentially a diesel Prius with lower transmission losses.

So a Chevy Volt/Vauxhall Ampera?

[kambites]

GroundEffect said:

So a Chevy Volt/Vauxhall Ampera?

They aren't available as diesels, are they?

[MX7]

emicen said:

I believe electric motors powering the wheels, small diesel engine operating a peak efficiency connected to a generator and smaller battery packs are the best solution available at present.

+1.

[richb77]

blackchrome917 said:

It won't be cheap, but it does look cool!

Agree on price but it looks like a movie prop car form a 1980's low budget sci-fi film!

[Strawman]

Mr Gear said:

You have to be kidding? The only reason VW have only just started doing hybrids is quite simply because they are 15 years behind the Japanese and desperately trying to catch up.

Wow, VW has been building electric versions of the Golf since the 1970's, don't let ignorance get in the way of arguing on the internet though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Golf#Elect...

[kambites]

Strawman said:

Mr Gear said:

You have to be kidding? The only reason VW have only just started doing hybrids is quite simply because they are 15 years behind the Japanese and desperately trying to catch up.

Wow, VW has been building electric versions of the Golf since the 1970's, don't let ignorance get in the way of arguing on the internet though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Golf#Elect...

I can't see anything about them having ever produced a hybrid version on that page?

[Mr Gear]

Strawman said:

Mr Gear said:

You have to be kidding? The only reason VW have only just started doing hybrids is quite simply because they are 15 years behind the Japanese and desperately trying to catch up.

Wow, VW has been building electric versions of the Golf since the 1970's, don't let ignorance get in the way of arguing on the internet though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Golf#Elect...

Erm, mass-market hybrids are something VW have almost NO history of. Honda and Toyota are the only ones that can really claim any experience. Don't let ignorance get in the way of arguing on the internet though.

[Strawman]

It says since 2008. What baffles me are the people who think the Prius is an amazing ground breaking vehicle, what is the range of a 1st generation Prius on battery power alone, about 3 miles or less? Arguably it reduces smog a bit in cities that suffer from air pollution, like Los Angeles or Tokyo, but uses a lot more fuel than a Skoda Octavia diesel in typical UK driving, so erm.

It's the desperately trying to catch up to part that most puzzling, catch up to what exactly?

[JonnyVTEC]

Strawman said:

Wow, VW has been building electric versions of the Golf since the 1970's, don't let ignorance get in the way of arguing on the internet though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Golf#Elect...

Lead acid traction batteries? Blimey, did they also do a steam version?

[kambites]

Strawman said:

It says since 2008. What baffles me are the people who think the Prius is an amazing ground breaking vehicle, what is the range of a 1st generation Prius on battery power alone, about 3 miles or less? Arguably it reduces smog a bit in cities that suffer from air pollution, like Los Angeles or Tokyo, but uses a lot more fuel than a Skoda Octavia diesel in typical UK driving, so erm.

It says they began development work in 2008. There has, as far as I can see, never been a production hybrid version of the Golf.

[Strawman]

Maybe that is because existing rival hybrids are more more thirsty than conventional VAG engines rather than a lack of technological know how.

[kambites]

Strawman said:

Maybe that is because existing rival hybrids are more more thirsty than conventional VAG engines rather than a lack of technological know how.

Maybe. Who knows? But that doesn't change the fact that the comment you responded to was factually correct. VW are miles behind the Japanese car makes when it comes to hybrids and it seems that they are trying to catch up, albeit in a slightly different form in this car.

[Mr Gear]

Strawman said:

It says since 2008. What baffles me are the people who think the Prius is an amazing ground breaking vehicle, what is the range of a 1st generation Prius on battery power alone, about 3 miles or less? Arguably it reduces smog a bit in cities that suffer from air pollution, like Los Angeles or Tokyo, but uses a lot more fuel than a Skoda Octavia diesel in typical UK driving, so erm.

It's the desperately trying to catch up to part that most puzzling, catch up to what exactly?

Catch up to the fact that Honda and Toyota have been selling hybrids to the public and making money out of them for over 13 years now.

The MK1 Prius was ugly, sure, but the fact that Toyota were brave enough to put it to market put them years ahead of the Europeans. Production experience counts for alot. We are not talking prototypes here.

[Strawman]

I can understand why the Prius sold in the US and Japan where the markets for car diesels are tiny, Europe less so.