RE: McLaren P1 pricing and performance
Discussion
"0-200km/h in less than 7 seconds"! 
The price is quite less than I was expecting, as well. I was fully expecting it to cost over 1Million pounds. Makes the Aston One-77 seem overpriced. Granted, that was even more exclusive. Not sure it really matters, though, when we're talking about production numbers in the low triple digits.
I hope I get to see one on the road someday! (Unlike in the U.K., our more moderate climate over here means owners actually do drive their supercars fairly regularly.)
The price is quite less than I was expecting, as well. I was fully expecting it to cost over 1Million pounds. Makes the Aston One-77 seem overpriced. Granted, that was even more exclusive. Not sure it really matters, though, when we're talking about production numbers in the low triple digits.
I hope I get to see one on the road someday! (Unlike in the U.K., our more moderate climate over here means owners actually do drive their supercars fairly regularly.)
Edited by bobberz on Wednesday 27th February 03:59
loveice said:
Relatively speaking, This new P1 does NOT have impressive performance at all. Just have a look recent releases. These figures are better, but not like when the F1 was released...
If you expect a huge leap in performance from any new car these days you are going to be disappointed for a couple of reasons.Sticking a huge power engine in brings practical problems such as heat management, driveability and fuel consumption. Look at the crazy number of radiators the Veyron has to have. To put it in perspective, a 1000HP car has to get rid of nearly 2000HP of waste heat - about 1500 electric fires worth.
Then you have to consider tyres. As you increase speed, the demands on them become enormous and the consequences of failure become much harder to deal with. Kinetic energy increases with the square of speed, so a blow out at 250mph poses much more of a problem than one at 150mph. How long do those on a Veyron last, and how much do they cost? What would it take to go one better?
Driving something massively faster also poses its own problems.
I suspect that we have reached a practical ceiling of performance where it is just not worth trying to go further at present. About 1000hp, about 200mph, about 3 seconds 0-60 seems to be where it is. It might be possible to better those figures but the compromises needed to do so probably aren't worth it. Bearing in mind that we are talking about road cars, and not out and out racers, there are other considerations than the numbers on the page. Those figures might well improve over time, but until some radical new technology comes along it will be incrementally rather than in jumps.
I think that much of the development will be going into improving things that aren't immediately obvious from a list of stats. How easy is it to drive? How accessible is the performance to people who aren't Michael Schumacher? Can you drive it on the road without breaking your teeth, or going deaf or cooking in 45C cabin temperatures?
markcoznottz said:
Any car looks slow next to a hennesey venom. The one evo featured can hit 200 in under 1/2 a mile, a standard veyron according to them needs a full mile to reach 200. What is not really made clear is how clean the exhausts are on either of those two vehicles (the venom and the agera r).. The Hennesey venom in some you tube videos looks like its running on almost straight pipes, which would make comparisons irrelevant.
The Venom Evo featured is Steven Tyler's car... given he lives in California, I'd say that the Venom is bound to some very strict emission regulations.PascalBuyens said:
markcoznottz said:
Any car looks slow next to a hennesey venom. The one evo featured can hit 200 in under 1/2 a mile, a standard veyron according to them needs a full mile to reach 200. What is not really made clear is how clean the exhausts are on either of those two vehicles (the venom and the agera r).. The Hennesey venom in some you tube videos looks like its running on almost straight pipes, which would make comparisons irrelevant.
The Venom Evo featured is Steven Tyler's car... given he lives in California, I'd say that the Venom is bound to some very strict emission regulations.CraigyMc said:
Bedazzled said:
I think McLaren should nominate a random PH poster to review the car in a detailed road and track test. The only selection criteria should be their username starts with "Be" and ends in "dazzled".
Never before have I thought about changing my user ID to "BeFeckingDazzled"...
Design is bold (albeit a bit fussy) and should look amazing in the carbon, I particularly like the rear end view. Also like the minimalist interior. Don't like the ugly rubber hose connector thing on the door, very un-mclaren like solution.
Why aren't more people talking about the weight though? I was seriously disappointed with the 918 weight, and so with this (and also with the fatter than a Zonda Huyara). Isn't the Ferrari F150 rumored to weigh around 1000 kgs? Now that's impressive, and if so probably the single most amazing figure about any of these new hypercars considering it will also pack hybrid tech.
You can't disguise weight, plus you can "feel" the benefit of (lack of) it at moderate speeds, whereas all the aero trickery and sticky tires are only great at if "I get it wrong I'll surely die" pace. Just surprised more petrolheads aren't talking about this. Just my two cents, which for all intents and purposes is all the money I would have to buy any of these cars.
Why aren't more people talking about the weight though? I was seriously disappointed with the 918 weight, and so with this (and also with the fatter than a Zonda Huyara). Isn't the Ferrari F150 rumored to weigh around 1000 kgs? Now that's impressive, and if so probably the single most amazing figure about any of these new hypercars considering it will also pack hybrid tech.
You can't disguise weight, plus you can "feel" the benefit of (lack of) it at moderate speeds, whereas all the aero trickery and sticky tires are only great at if "I get it wrong I'll surely die" pace. Just surprised more petrolheads aren't talking about this. Just my two cents, which for all intents and purposes is all the money I would have to buy any of these cars.
lusopiston said:
Why aren't more people talking about the weight though? I was seriously disappointed with the 918 weight, and so with this (and also with the fatter than a Zonda Huyara). Isn't the Ferrari F150 rumored to weigh around 1000 kgs? Now that's impressive, and if so probably the single most amazing figure about any of these new hypercars considering it will also pack hybrid tech.
I reckon chances are you will find the rumoured weight of the Ferrari is just that. A rumour.IMO, there is not a chance it will weigh anywhere close to 1000kg. If it is lighter than the Enzo I would be very surprised indeed.
redroadster said:
Everybody should have one,its awsome 25% quicker than original f1 how crazy will it feel i am massive fan of mcclarens road cars,well done flying the flag for britain.
could you imagine an italian enthusiasts forum coming back with anything other than universal support and praise for the F70? Here though we have an amazing british company, developing world class sports and supercars at decent volumes almost from nothing, doing it incredibly well, and lots of brits queuing up to say how ugly/pointless/slow is it. Think it's an amazing achievement from an amazing company. It'll be quicker around any track than the Ferarri, which is what they set out to do. Laying a fiver on that now!*
- limitedtomaximum10takersincaseigetbankrupted.
This does make me chuckle
From reading certain posts on this thread, basically every fast car should have a 6+ litre V12, be geared and setup for outright speed only, cornering isnt important, manufacturers should never try anything new and all hypercars should be basically the same :-)
From reading certain posts on this thread, basically every fast car should have a 6+ litre V12, be geared and setup for outright speed only, cornering isnt important, manufacturers should never try anything new and all hypercars should be basically the same :-)
Edited by Inertiatic on Wednesday 27th February 12:39
Inertiatic said:
This does make me chuckle
From reading certain posts on this thread, basically every fast car should have a 6+ litre V12, be geared and setup for outright speed only, cornering isnt important, manufacturers should never try anything new and all hypercars should be basically the same :-)
pretty much. What I take away from this and stories like it is that most PHers commenting on headline stories are clueless.From reading certain posts on this thread, basically every fast car should have a 6+ litre V12, be geared and setup for outright speed only, cornering isnt important, manufacturers should never try anything new and all hypercars should be basically the same :-)
scubadude said:
I realise everyones masturbating on the acceleration because they've announced it but surely given its weight, power and likely downforce this cars party piece will be corners, getting into and out of them quickly, perhaps 15 or so of them linked in a circle, lets call it a track and setting incredible lap times (for a road car) I wonder where they'll find someone with large enough testicals to attempt a full on Ring time :-)
Possibly the funniest post i have ever read. piman2k said:
It's a stunning car, truly wonderful with staggering figures.
But I can't help but wonder, what makesit 866,000 GBP. It seems like we've arrived in the era of true out of reach supercars. All that price and really it's not for the tech or the driving thrills, it's for the fact they're only making 375 and they'll all be sold out on pre-order.
I think I'd sooner have 5 MP4-12C's or the equivalent amount.
You have obviously forgotten how much the Mclaren F1 cost in 1994. It was $1,000,000 close to £500,000. So with inflation over the past 19 years it makes the P1 a relative bargain. But I can't help but wonder, what makesit 866,000 GBP. It seems like we've arrived in the era of true out of reach supercars. All that price and really it's not for the tech or the driving thrills, it's for the fact they're only making 375 and they'll all be sold out on pre-order.
I think I'd sooner have 5 MP4-12C's or the equivalent amount.
Rich_W said:
Looks are "interesting" not sure if I like them or not
Not fast enough top end. Seriosuly it's got massive potential to be 250+ surely?
Bleeding Expensive. If F150 undercuts it at all (let alone by £100K) then McL will struggle to shift 375 units. Even allowing for Inflation it's a lot more than the F1 at launch and not a ground breaker in the same way
Early launch before Ferrari is sadly inevitble. Ron lives to try and out do Ferrari all the time, at everything. (Hence why 12C was marginally cheaper than the 458) Bit childish I fear, since there's enough room for 2 companies.
Should have been a V12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOy-HPrCK7o
(outside the factory, road was apparently closed btw)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYmIfDAQ9Y0
(how stable and calm!)
Talking of laptimes. What was the 12C's Ring time? I know they binned one on the first attempt (but then denied it was a time attack despite the camera helicopter
)
Obviously you haven't read the article on the Ferrari F150/F70 http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyI... where the cost of the Ferrari was revealed to be over £1,000,000 so making the P1 a bit of a bargain in hypercar terms. Not fast enough top end. Seriosuly it's got massive potential to be 250+ surely?
Bleeding Expensive. If F150 undercuts it at all (let alone by £100K) then McL will struggle to shift 375 units. Even allowing for Inflation it's a lot more than the F1 at launch and not a ground breaker in the same way
Early launch before Ferrari is sadly inevitble. Ron lives to try and out do Ferrari all the time, at everything. (Hence why 12C was marginally cheaper than the 458) Bit childish I fear, since there's enough room for 2 companies.
Should have been a V12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOy-HPrCK7o
(outside the factory, road was apparently closed btw)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYmIfDAQ9Y0
(how stable and calm!)
Talking of laptimes. What was the 12C's Ring time? I know they binned one on the first attempt (but then denied it was a time attack despite the camera helicopter
) Grovsie26 said:
So its almost a million quid for a 12c with some bigger turbo's/boost, little fiddle with engine, bit of carbon trim hear and there, and a bigger spoiler, oh and completey pointless electric crap?
LOL.
Pagani please............
Chicken and egg - in that if Pagani produced a "baby" car for £150k with 12C specs would the same analogy apply ?LOL.
Pagani please............
markcoznottz said:
PascalBuyens said:
markcoznottz said:
Any car looks slow next to a hennesey venom. The one evo featured can hit 200 in under 1/2 a mile, a standard veyron according to them needs a full mile to reach 200. What is not really made clear is how clean the exhausts are on either of those two vehicles (the venom and the agera r).. The Hennesey venom in some you tube videos looks like its running on almost straight pipes, which would make comparisons irrelevant.
The Venom Evo featured is Steven Tyler's car... given he lives in California, I'd say that the Venom is bound to some very strict emission regulations.A broken record comment in itself but I don't understand why people continue to use financial logic that in any way applies to them when pondering hypercars. Genuinely baffles me.
Cars in the highest echelon of production cars such as the P1 are increasingly going to be sold on particular and finite USP's or ethoses. With automotive technology reaching it's plateau of sorts thanks to the huge increases and leaps forward allowed by modern engine technology, tyre compound/design and so on, manufacturers now strive to innovate/differentiate in more intricate ways. Pagani execute meticulous, exotic engineering and design. Bugatti obviously set the mark with their behemoth of engineering (and financial input) in the Veyron. Hennessey should be applauded in my eyes for producing what appears to be a well put together, well devised ultimate iteration of a LS engined package.
What McLaren have done, at possible cost to aesthetics and to some at considerable cost to luxury/opulence and interior design, is attempt to innovate and drive the use of active aero and electronic drive for the road and create the ultimate performance car. The fact it has electronic motors that can whisk it round town might appeal to some potential buyers, but thats clearly not why they've chosen them, its a useful feature. The electronic motors can perfectly fill in any weaknesses in the range of the V8, aid in its control for breaking, and add additional power for short periods as icing on the cake. With its aero, frankly it looks set to have control over physics in a manner no other road car has by quite some margin.
I'm myself holding judgement on it overall until someone gets behind the wheel, but you cant quantify these cars by mere stats anymore and the P1 looks like its going to be able to do things no other car yet can. To me that's all that should matter.
Cars in the highest echelon of production cars such as the P1 are increasingly going to be sold on particular and finite USP's or ethoses. With automotive technology reaching it's plateau of sorts thanks to the huge increases and leaps forward allowed by modern engine technology, tyre compound/design and so on, manufacturers now strive to innovate/differentiate in more intricate ways. Pagani execute meticulous, exotic engineering and design. Bugatti obviously set the mark with their behemoth of engineering (and financial input) in the Veyron. Hennessey should be applauded in my eyes for producing what appears to be a well put together, well devised ultimate iteration of a LS engined package.
What McLaren have done, at possible cost to aesthetics and to some at considerable cost to luxury/opulence and interior design, is attempt to innovate and drive the use of active aero and electronic drive for the road and create the ultimate performance car. The fact it has electronic motors that can whisk it round town might appeal to some potential buyers, but thats clearly not why they've chosen them, its a useful feature. The electronic motors can perfectly fill in any weaknesses in the range of the V8, aid in its control for breaking, and add additional power for short periods as icing on the cake. With its aero, frankly it looks set to have control over physics in a manner no other road car has by quite some margin.
I'm myself holding judgement on it overall until someone gets behind the wheel, but you cant quantify these cars by mere stats anymore and the P1 looks like its going to be able to do things no other car yet can. To me that's all that should matter.
Edited by Repent on Wednesday 27th February 14:21
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