RE: Scores on the doors: PH Blog
Friday 1st March 2013
Talk of black boxes scoring your driving for telematics-based insurance has been a big PH topic recently, not least off the back of our story yesterday. Interesting to hear from some PHers who've actually used the systems too and found them less invasive than some of us might fear. Indeed, as more than one person has pointed out we've happily been running round with tracker-based alarms for years so the idea that people know where we are, or might store this info, is nothing new.
Tsk, that looks dangerously like 'fast cornering'Since we posted the piece we've heard more from Autosaint, a provider of telematics insurance and mentioned in the story. The way they work it is by starting you with 100 points, renewed and assessed every quarter. Points are deducted for 'bad' driving and earned for 'good' driving. Your score will drop for the following: speeding, 'aggressive' acceleration, 'aggressive' braking, 'fast cornering' and more.
What might have been...Worse, Mercedes was scoring us on our performance on a live board in a room full of the other hacks. Nowhere to hide. How did I do? Er, well ... I'm a little rusty ... and ... I was fourth, right. Must try harder.
Scores on the doors: PH Blog
Are you willing to let someone score your driving? Dan has...
Tsk, that looks dangerously like 'fast cornering'
Funnily enough I've had my driving scored today in a very similar kind of way at Mercedes-Benz World at Brooklands. Like with an Autosaint policy I started with a brace of points, facing deductions for sloppy driving. Though, this being a closed (and greasy) track and in an AMG, I was glad I had a Mercedes instructor marking me and not an automated black box. Mainly because there was quite a lot of aggressive acceleration and braking, not to mention a fair bit of fast cornering, not all of it facing forwards. Autosaint-praising testimonial provider Ian Skidmore would have been proud!
What might have been...
In all seriousness I'm interested to see how I'd do with an Autosaint box on the road too. Better hopefully. We're going to give one a go and see how it ranks us. This could be interesting!
Dan
Discussion
Back in 1994 when I traded up from a Honda CRX to a Renault Alpine V6 Turbo GTA, I thought it might be a good idea to have some driving instruction from Paul Ripley. It was quite a humbling experience - you're never as good as you think you are!!! I wonder how an expert instructor would get on with one of these intrusive contraptions? Can you imagine the scenario; nice sunny day, next to no traffic, a road you know well, a car you know well, so you decide to go for a "spirited" drive within the national speed limits. Result; sorry sir but our computer shows that you were driving wrecklessly so your premium will have to rise. Do this several times and you will become uninsurable. Doesn't bear thinking about does it.
Scoring is an interesting concept. If this was displayed on the dashboard, then drivers could drive like a Saint to earn credits, then spend those credits hooning around for a while.
Is this really what insurance companies want and will this make drivers safer? I doubt it.
Too often their are financial gains in the name of safety - if this can be decoupled then some credibility will follow.
If safety is the predominate aim of all these changes, then I hope there are more effective methods. ie. more difficult driving tests, retesting after a certain time, advanced driving tuition etc etc.
Is this really what insurance companies want and will this make drivers safer? I doubt it.
Too often their are financial gains in the name of safety - if this can be decoupled then some credibility will follow.
If safety is the predominate aim of all these changes, then I hope there are more effective methods. ie. more difficult driving tests, retesting after a certain time, advanced driving tuition etc etc.
I believe there is an issue with "data protection" with the telematic gps systems at the moment which I am sure will be resolved but currently the information cannot be used to prosecute individuals, I do however wonder in the near future especially when manufacturers are putting black boxes in as standard wether the info can or will be used by insurers not to pay claims or the police to prosecute
As the insurance industry are pushng for YOUNG drivers to have telematic boxes in their cars, should they also push for the elderly drivers? any one that has a fault claim? make them have one fitted for 12 months after the incident?
Surely this would be a good bit of risk management that may result in lower car insurance premiums...
or am i typing a load of tiswas...
As the insurance industry are pushng for YOUNG drivers to have telematic boxes in their cars, should they also push for the elderly drivers? any one that has a fault claim? make them have one fitted for 12 months after the incident?
Surely this would be a good bit of risk management that may result in lower car insurance premiums...
or am i typing a load of tiswas...
garypotter said:
As the insurance industry are pushng for YOUNG drivers to have telematic boxes in their cars, should they also push for the elderly drivers? any one that has a fault claim? make them have one fitted for 12 months after the incident?
I believe the issue with old people is that they get to 30mph and then continue at that speed without braking or accelerating until they arrive at their destination.gumsie said:
What a load of 5 Aitch one Tea.
Aggressive braking: They know when you've had to emergency stop or weave around a pothole?
Aggressive acceleration; Usualy unnecessary but still.......
Quite, so someone pulls out on you and you use your car's ability to avoid and accident and you loose points...Aggressive braking: They know when you've had to emergency stop or weave around a pothole?
Aggressive acceleration; Usualy unnecessary but still.......
Also what is bad about brisk acceleration?
We had something similar with a day out at work- boss paid for a day at Thruxton, and we tallied up all our scores after tuition/driving. I came third out of nine, so that massaged my ego nicely. 
Black boxes are not foolproof... as mentioned, if I needed to suddenly brake or accelerate viciously to get out of harm's way, I will. Also, it depends on the car- my E36 at a quarter throttle is probably quicker than my 206 on full throttle... horses, courses, etc.
Black boxes are not foolproof... as mentioned, if I needed to suddenly brake or accelerate viciously to get out of harm's way, I will. Also, it depends on the car- my E36 at a quarter throttle is probably quicker than my 206 on full throttle... horses, courses, etc.
I have repeated below my comments from the insurance black box article from a few days ago.
I was all for this when I read the Citroen article because I assumed incorrectly that this would be a simple data logger on a continuous loop. It has now evolved into a sophisticated GPS tracking and 'safety score' system that sounds and feels to me like the thin end of a very very large wedge.
While enforcement agencies will have to apply for court orders for this data, which in most circumstances i.e not life changing or fatal they will not get granted, the data is still out there and subject to misuse.
Past experience has taught us that insurance companies are not great at keeping our information secure, yes have you ever wondered how that no win no fee 'lawyer' got your mobile number/email address. So the idea that data protection and RIPA (surveillance authorities) will be followed as per current legislation is pie in the sky as far as I am concerned.
The small print of these policies needs to be read very carefully around the issue of implied disclosure to third parties.
You cannot currently sign your rights away with regards intrusive surveillance, which in many cases this data could be classified as, if it is used for a purpose other than clearly stated and signed for.
The thick edge of the wedge looks to me like road charging schemes based around the data systems that these companies are trialling on younger motorist's under the guise of cheaper premiums.
It will be interesting to see what companies are fitting this technology now and see in 10 years time who will be bidding for contracts on government sanctioned road pricing/taxing infrastructure.
I was all for this when I read the Citroen article because I assumed incorrectly that this would be a simple data logger on a continuous loop. It has now evolved into a sophisticated GPS tracking and 'safety score' system that sounds and feels to me like the thin end of a very very large wedge.
While enforcement agencies will have to apply for court orders for this data, which in most circumstances i.e not life changing or fatal they will not get granted, the data is still out there and subject to misuse.
Past experience has taught us that insurance companies are not great at keeping our information secure, yes have you ever wondered how that no win no fee 'lawyer' got your mobile number/email address. So the idea that data protection and RIPA (surveillance authorities) will be followed as per current legislation is pie in the sky as far as I am concerned.
The small print of these policies needs to be read very carefully around the issue of implied disclosure to third parties.
You cannot currently sign your rights away with regards intrusive surveillance, which in many cases this data could be classified as, if it is used for a purpose other than clearly stated and signed for.
The thick edge of the wedge looks to me like road charging schemes based around the data systems that these companies are trialling on younger motorist's under the guise of cheaper premiums.
It will be interesting to see what companies are fitting this technology now and see in 10 years time who will be bidding for contracts on government sanctioned road pricing/taxing infrastructure.
So is the proposal for a different black box for different types of car? Somehow I doubt it! What may be measured as aggressive braking or acceleration in a small / old 1 litre hatchback (ie a typical teenagers first car) would be so much within the capability of even a good modern repmobile that a one-size-fits-all black box would soon be rendered ridiculous!
I would much prefer to see harder tests, formal advanced tests and regular re-testing to improve standards.
I would much prefer to see harder tests, formal advanced tests and regular re-testing to improve standards.
P4ROT said:
Benbay001 said:
I believe the issue with old people is that they get to 30mph and then continue at that speed without braking or accelerating until they arrive at their destination.
So true lol...45 in a 60, then when you get to a 30 they carry on at 45 
Edited by Donkey62 on Saturday 2nd March 12:02
I 'have a friend' who had a taste of this a year ago when a hire company representative called to rebuke him for his enthusiastic velocity in one of their cars. They knew where he'd come from and that he'd driven through a 50 mph contraflow at 48mph(cruise control) but then accelerated to allegedly a speed that alerts a live operator and it was only the fact it then drove normally to the same place it had been parked for the previous week they didn't alert the police that it had been stolen( it was 4am). Apparently any time their cars exceed 1lepton a report is sent to the hire company and someone then decides whether or not to administer a telephone b
king. Armed with this knowledge 'my friend' just set the limiter(it was a Merc) to 99.
king. Armed with this knowledge 'my friend' just set the limiter(it was a Merc) to 99.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff