RE: Geneva Motor Show 2013: Porsche

RE: Geneva Motor Show 2013: Porsche

Author
Discussion

Captain Muppet

8,540 posts

265 months

Tuesday 5th March 2013
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Andy ap said:
I really dont like Porsches, but i have to say that is actually a handsome car especially from the rear. The front overhang is too big though thought this was rear engined?
It's how you optimise your weight distribution.

If you have a rear heavy car you stick on a long nose and move the front wheels as far back as you can.

If you have a front heavy car you stick on a massive boot and move the rear axle as far forward as you can.

Speedraser

1,656 posts

183 months

Tuesday 5th March 2013
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Regarding the post asking how many of us manual 'box whiners are actually in a position to buy this car: Many of us who have posted saying we won’t buy one without a manual 'box are in the fortunate position of being potential real buyers.

To those who ask if we manual fans bemoan the loss of crank-starting, ignition timing levers on the steering wheel, carbs, etc: If new tech is always better (or more fun), then when the fully autonomous car is available that is quicker around a track with the computer doing all the driving – no driver needed, then you should applaud that too.

Antj

1,047 posts

200 months

Tuesday 5th March 2013
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am i the only one a little dissappointed by the ring time, i was expecting us to see close to 7:20 with the new GT3 based on the Carrera S being 7:37. Does not seem to be a major difference over the carrera S when you look at the premium and the extra tech.

I assume the 991 GT3 RS will be the one to really watch.

still like it though

ItsJustARide

108 posts

157 months

Tuesday 5th March 2013
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I understand the business rationale and/or red tape conformity that has lead modern performance cars in the direction they are all heading.

Nonetheless I find myself decreasingly interested in them and increasingly interested in fettled classics. Like a Afla GTA recreation. Or a Singer. Or the perennial classic Caterham 7. These, for me, are the sweet-spot.

But it is all a matter of personal preference.

mollytherocker

14,366 posts

209 months

Tuesday 5th March 2013
quotequote all
Antj said:
am i the only one a little dissappointed by the ring time, i was expecting us to see close to 7:20 with the new GT3 based on the Carrera S being 7:37. Does not seem to be a major difference over the carrera S when you look at the premium and the extra tech.

I assume the 991 GT3 RS will be the one to really watch.

still like it though
It's the rings fault, or more specifically the GTRs ring time, that is loading our cars with tech.

I am interested in why 10 seconds faster would make it a better car.

Grovsie26

1,302 posts

167 months

Tuesday 5th March 2013
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No manual. Very surprised the GT3 is supposed to be the purest drivers car?

CraigyMc

16,409 posts

236 months

Tuesday 5th March 2013
quotequote all
mollytherocker said:
Antj said:
am i the only one a little dissappointed by the ring time, i was expecting us to see close to 7:20 with the new GT3 based on the Carrera S being 7:37. Does not seem to be a major difference over the carrera S when you look at the premium and the extra tech.

I assume the 991 GT3 RS will be the one to really watch.

still like it though
It's the rings fault, or more specifically the GTRs ring time, that is loading our cars with tech.

I am interested in why 10 seconds faster would make it a better car.
Ring times have nothing to do with emissions control systems, ABS, stability control, airbags, seatbelts, daytime running lights, tyre pressure monitoring systems, or loads of other tech in modern cars. Double-clutch gearboxes arguably have more to do with emissions than performance.

The main technology that's been making cars get quicker round the ring is advances in grip from modern tyres.

C


sleep envy

62,260 posts

249 months

Tuesday 5th March 2013
quotequote all
mollytherocker said:
Antj said:
am i the only one a little dissappointed by the ring time, i was expecting us to see close to 7:20 with the new GT3 based on the Carrera S being 7:37. Does not seem to be a major difference over the carrera S when you look at the premium and the extra tech.

I assume the 991 GT3 RS will be the one to really watch.

still like it though
It's the rings fault, or more specifically the GTRs ring time, that is loading our cars with tech.

I am interested in why 10 seconds faster would make it a better car.
I am more interested in why people care?

6th Gear

3,563 posts

194 months

Tuesday 5th March 2013
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Star of the show.

In gun metal grey please.


Mastodon2

13,826 posts

165 months

Tuesday 5th March 2013
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The lack of a manual is shame, but I think it could come later, in a RS+ version of sorts. I'd expect it would carry a hefty price premium, and no doubt a bit of clever marketing from Porsche to downplay it not being as quick as the car we looking at today. "The ultimate analogue driving experience", which in truth is what the PH demographic wants, but we only represent a minority mindset.

PDK or not, these will fly out of the showrooms. Anyway, enough with the bad, on the good side, that engine must be a real gem. To get reliability, 470bhp or so from a 3.8L engine and a 9000rpm redline must have taken some doing. I bet it's a joy to use, I love cars where the power is at the top of the range, rather than the bottom, so you get real satisfaction from holding onto a gear and watching the needle scream around the dial.

sleep envy

62,260 posts

249 months

Tuesday 5th March 2013
quotequote all
Mastodon2 said:
The lack of a manual is shame, but I think it could come later, in a RS+ version of sorts. I'd expect it would carry a hefty price premium, and no doubt a bit of clever marketing from Porsche to downplay it not being as quick as the car we looking at today. "The ultimate analogue driving experience", which in truth is what the PH demographic wants, but we only represent a minority mindset.
You think they'd sell an RS which is slower than a GT3?

Can't see it myself, no that stats mean much to me but to others it's their holy grail.

mollytherocker

14,366 posts

209 months

Tuesday 5th March 2013
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Where's the Turbo? I thought that they were revealing that too?

Al 450

1,390 posts

221 months

Tuesday 5th March 2013
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After driving a 997 GT3 a few weeks ago I am gutted that they have ditched the manual, it's a real travesty. Purists buy a GT3 and purists will want a manual transmission. The 911 turbo caters for the rest.

boxerTen

501 posts

204 months

Tuesday 5th March 2013
quotequote all
Speedraser said:
To those who ask if we manual fans bemoan the loss of crank-starting, ignition timing levers on the steering wheel, carbs, etc: If new tech is always better (or more fun), then when the fully autonomous car is available that is quicker around a track with the computer doing all the driving – no driver needed, then you should applaud that too.
Well put. At some point the extra tech detracts rather than adds to the driving experience. Sequential gearboxes are borderline. I enjoy heal and toeing whilst piling into a corner. Its rewarding to get it right.

One day I guess, when all cars are autonomous, a few of us will still buy low-volume specials devoid of computer-assisted enhancements. We won't be allowed to drive them on the public road though!

carsnapper

334 posts

241 months

Tuesday 5th March 2013
quotequote all
125 HP/PL from a NA flat 6 3.8 - fantastic work.

It's a touch heavier that I would have expected (well, 100KG more):

Unladen weight (DIN): 1,430 kg

...but then again this is no longer a small sports car.

The new Cayman S would be enough fun for me. But what am I saying? I'm supposed to dislike Porsches! confused

jetfire

38 posts

136 months

Wednesday 6th March 2013
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SimonOcean said:
Hands up if you are forward to a 981 Cayman R with a manual gearbox? byebye
I'll have a 981 Cayman RS with a 9krpm 3.8, manual box, and 4ws please.

Well I can dream they'd make it.

6th Gear

3,563 posts

194 months

Wednesday 6th March 2013
quotequote all
Star of the show.

In gun metal grey please.


The Pits

4,289 posts

240 months

Wednesday 6th March 2013
quotequote all
Mastodon2 said:
The lack of a manual is shame, but I think it could come later, in a RS+ version of sorts. I'd expect it would carry a hefty price premium, and no doubt a bit of clever marketing from Porsche to downplay it not being as quick as the car we looking at today. "The ultimate analogue driving experience", which in truth is what the PH demographic wants, but we only represent a minority mindset.

PDK or not, these will fly out of the showrooms. Anyway, enough with the bad, on the good side, that engine must be a real gem. To get reliability, 470bhp or so from a 3.8L engine and a 9000rpm redline must have taken some doing. I bet it's a joy to use, I love cars where the power is at the top of the range, rather than the bottom, so you get real satisfaction from holding onto a gear and watching the needle scream around the dial.
Agreed. But usually people who prefer pdk also prefer lazy bottom end torque. Will there be enough for them? So many comments on ph about 'not having to rev the nuts off it'. Where we see that as a positive I'm constantly amazed by the petrolheads that see it as a negative.

I have no interest in owning a porsche of any kind but I can say it's one of the better looking cars at the show, even if it is exactly what we were all expecting. The latest 'hypercars' are hideous. Ferrari is the best looking by a huge margin.

Dagnut

3,515 posts

193 months

Wednesday 6th March 2013
quotequote all
How does 4WS work with oversteer?

AFAIK it's only been used on FWD and AWD cars before? A lot of jiggery pokery for the computers to do if you are catching a slide at 31mph

mollytherocker

14,366 posts

209 months

Wednesday 6th March 2013
quotequote all
Dagnut said:
How does 4WS work with oversteer?

AFAIK it's only been used on FWD and AWD cars before? A lot of jiggery pokery for the computers to do if you are catching a slide at 31mph
Computers are easily fast enough to deal with a slide. Massively faster than a human! What it will do during a slide though I dont know, I guess we will find out.

I would imagine it has 3 choices;

Return to straight ahead and leave it to the driver
work to cancel out the slide
Assist the driver in holding the slide!