RE: Geneva Motor Show 2013: Porsche

[Dagnut]

mollytherocker said:

Computers are easily fast enough to deal with a slide. Massively faster than a human! What it will do during a slide though I dont know, I guess we will find out.

I would imagine it has 3 choices;

Return to straight ahead and leave it to the driver
work to cancel out the slide
Assist the driver in holding the slide!

...which means you can never fully disengage the computers

[DiscoColin]

Mermaid said:

PunterCam said:

If there was any doubt the 4.0l RS wasn't a future collectors car, it's gone now. Even the standard 3.8's might start levelling out...

The 991 GT3 will probably embarrass the 4.0RS at a track day. The 4.0RS will become a garage queen, whilst the track day 3.8RS owners will likely upgrade to the 991 GT3.

In the bar last night after the Portimão Bookatrack track day, the GT3 owners convened to discuss the new car. (This included owners of a range of models from the 996 to 4.0RS, most people having had multiple varieties of GT3). None will be ordering a 991. The word unproven came up a lot. Personally the idea of the electric rear steer really puts me off the idea of tracking such a thing until a few guinea pigs have battered them for a few years. The fact that they are persisting with centre locks is the tip of the iceberg and the PDK thing in itself (while a huge turn off for all present) wasn't in itself a de-facto deal breaker...

It will surely be a much faster car, but your premise that it's market is existing owners is not exactly solid I am afraid. It's market is for people who want to be able to boast about their car in a bar and who have grown tired of arguing with Nissan owners IMHO.....

[Mermaid]

DiscoColin said:

In the bar last night after the Portimão Bookatrack track day, the GT3 owners convened to discuss the new car. (This included owners of a range of models from the 996 to 4.0RS, most people having had multiple varieties of GT3). None will be ordering a 991. ....

It is early days. Porsche will make sure it is not a huge allocation so all cars will be accounted for in a short while.

[monthefish]

CIE560 said:

That actually looks very good. Possibly the first 911 I want.

I was the same when the 996 GT2 came out. Never wanted one until then, but retropectively I've come to appreciate many that went before.

[DiscoColin]

Mermaid said:

DiscoColin said:

In the bar last night after the Portimão Bookatrack track day, the GT3 owners convened to discuss the new car. (This included owners of a range of models from the 996 to 4.0RS, most people having had multiple varieties of GT3). None will be ordering a 991. ....

It is early days. Porsche will make sure it is not a huge allocation so all cars will be accounted for in a short while.

I don't doubt that part - especially with the hilariously small allocations to the UK. They will sell cars to previous owners I am sure. I was simply pointing out that many owners who do actually track them with conviction aren't as yet enamoured. That is (however) a small subset of owners. Also, a disappointing proportion of GT3 (and particularly RS) buyers who are actually allocated a car from Porsche GB have long been people who put 1500-4500 miles on it in 6-12 months of generally road use then sell them on anyway. I was just qualifying that your expectation that existing track day enthusiasts would move to the new car may not prove to be sound

[anonymous-user]

DiscoColin said:

In the bar last night after the Portimão Bookatrack track day...

never a truer word spoken than;
in the bar,
after a track day!

you'll all want one the first time you get left for dead!

[juansolo]

pistonheed said:

Mmmmm F1- paddles, touring cars sequential, Cup cars -sequential, all racers? Whats to master, you either can or can't and if you can why do you need to prove it to yourself?

I have a sequential on my track car, I prefer a manual on my sports car and a modern auto on a daily driver / mile muncher. Simple as that really.

[Mermaid]

juansolo said:

I have a sequential on my track car, I prefer a manual on my sports car and a modern auto on a daily driver / mile muncher. Simple as that really.

A 458 ticks many boxes.

[mollytherocker]

Mermaid said:

juansolo said:

I have a sequential on my track car, I prefer a manual on my sports car and a modern auto on a daily driver / mile muncher. Simple as that really.

A 458 ticks many boxes.

It ticks one of the three.

[Mermaid]

mollytherocker said:

It ticks one of the three.

Well yes, but is a great one-car solution.

[juansolo]

mollytherocker said:

Mermaid said:

juansolo said:

I have a sequential on my track car, I prefer a manual on my sports car and a modern auto on a daily driver / mile muncher. Simple as that really.

A 458 ticks many boxes.

It ticks one of the three.

Indeed and the sad thing is that it's the modern auto box for a daily driver that it ticks.

[DE1 75]

After driving dual clutch boxes i would never go back to a manual unless in a classic car. I think the GT3 sounds great and is fitted with the best gearbox Porsche has to offer (revised PDK).

[tjlees]

Really good looking car and seems to have the right spec on paper. Really need the hacks to get hold of it and do a few miles and comparison with the 997.2 gt3. It definitely looks like it will be a success, especially in the low numbers that will hit the uk shores.

I think I prefer the interior of the old model http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p... The 991 gt3 looks too much on the centre console, but would be only a minor problem for me

I understand why some are put off by all the tech and new engine ( or at least derived from the S). I'm not sure I would want to put this 991 gt3 on the track, if it has not really directly descended from the proven 991 gt3 cup car.

I know that porsche have to try and keep up with likes of Ferrari, Mclaren on the techno and Pdk front, but I feel this is a significant departure from previous versions in terms of potential handling, feel and driver experience.

Why couldn't they take the 991gt3 rsr, put some creature comforts in, tone down the bodywork and put Pdk in to keep the ring mesters happy? Or is this the basis of the 991 RS?

However the price maybe an issue. Using the 991 gt3 configurator, I managed to get the price to £118,200 (pccb, PCM and axle lift being the biggies). I swear blind that a similar configuration with the 997.2 gt3 got me to around £97k.

[mollytherocker]

In terms of the price, when compared to the Carrera S with options, I reckon it's cheap! Maybe 10k more?

Or, more accurately, shows how stupidly overpriced the S is!

[C36 Nico]

mollytherocker said:

In terms of the price, when compared to the Carrera S with options, I reckon it's cheap! Maybe 10k more?

Or, more accurately, shows how stupidly overpriced the S is!

YEP. GT3 has always been the one to buy.
But as a driver tool I think the previous model looked way more to the point.

This looks more like a GT express ...

MANUAL. MEZGER. NAUWW.

[Nick644]

tjlees said:

Really good looking car and seems to have the right spec on paper. Really need the hacks to get hold of it and do a few miles and comparison with the 997.2 gt3. It definitely looks like it will be a success, especially in the low numbers that will hit the uk shores.

I think I prefer the interior of the old model http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p... The 991 gt3 looks too much on the centre console, but would be only a minor problem for me

I understand why some are put off by all the tech and new engine ( or at least derived from the S). I'm not sure I would want to put this 991 gt3 on the track, if it has not really directly descended from the proven 991 gt3 cup car.

I know that porsche have to try and keep up with likes of Ferrari, Mclaren on the techno and Pdk front, but I feel this is a significant departure from previous versions in terms of potential handling, feel and driver experience.

Why couldn't they take the 991gt3 rsr, put some creature comforts in, tone down the bodywork and put Pdk in to keep the ring mesters happy? Or is this the basis of the 991 RS?

However the price maybe an issue. Using the 991 gt3 configurator, I managed to get the price to £118,200 (pccb, PCM and axle lift being the biggies). I swear blind that a similar configuration with the 997.2 gt3 got me to around £97k.

Good summary. Nail, hit,head! I think a good analogy would be a quartz watch compared to a classic JL Coultre or Audemar Piguet. The quartz will be far superior as a time piece, but there is something tactile, almost 'living/breathing' about an automatic. I know which I prefer, even though its technically an inferior product. The same goes for a classic Leica full frame M8/9 camera with its simple manual settings and beautifully made lenses compared to the larger SLR plastic fantastic Nikons/Cannons et al. This for me was always Porsches strength, compact, light, simple, analogue, tactile, defying fashion and doing its own thing. Chrysler, when it half owned Mercedes, really didn't understand what made Mercedes a great brand and decided to cheapen components, go for economies of scale and dilute the brand strengths. The Volkswagen group seems to be following the same course with Porsche and thereby developing a new market direction which doesn't take into account the true enthusiast.

[toppstuff]

I think 997 GT3 used values are set to get firmer.

Buy now..

[juansolo]

If this was the RS model and not the GT3, maybe we'd not be as up in arms about it? The GT3 implies that it's the road version of the homologated GT3 race car, which it obviously isn't. Saying that I'm not sure it has been since the 996 GT3 to be fair, though at least they had some things in common. But hey, it has utterly impractical and now consumable centre lock hubs so it looks racey... Marketing bks at it's best.

[pSyCoSiS]

A stunning car with amazing technology.

[C36 Nico]

juansolo said:

If this was the RS model and not the GT3, maybe we'd not be as up in arms about it? The GT3 implies that it's the road version of the homologated GT3 race car, which it obviously isn't. Saying that I'm not sure it has been since the 996 GT3 to be fair, though at least they had some things in common. But hey, it has utterly impractical and now consumable centre lock hubs so it looks racey... Marketing bks at it's best.

Was there not some talk of the 996.2 GT3 being a different engine?