RE: The new 911 GT3: PH Blog
Discussion
anonymous said:
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You're welcome.anonymous said:
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But there's a very subtle difference isn't there ?. I've posted my "bit" once, and like most things on PH forums, it'll fade away and in the next twenty four hours it'll be long forgotten. The same can't be said of your posts on this topic which keep reappearing like a bad case of thrush.Meanwhile, back in the lift with Celine . . . . .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEaeml0Mxk4
I don't know what the hell you two are on about now, but I'll summarise my thoughts as...
I'm sick of people poo-pooing anything that doesn't have a manual box.
People who know far more than you and are far better drivers than you disagree. (ie. Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini, etc).
I am even more sick of people who try to claim anything other than an old fashioned row-boat box is only for people who can't drive and don't know anything about cars.
If you'd rather drive an old fashioned manual, fine. That's up to you.
But that doesn't make you a better driver.
It just means you probably have a small penis.
I'm sick of people poo-pooing anything that doesn't have a manual box.
People who know far more than you and are far better drivers than you disagree. (ie. Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini, etc).
I am even more sick of people who try to claim anything other than an old fashioned row-boat box is only for people who can't drive and don't know anything about cars.
If you'd rather drive an old fashioned manual, fine. That's up to you.
But that doesn't make you a better driver.
It just means you probably have a small penis.
anonymous said:
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I neither want, claimed or asked for the moral high ground. I was merely illustrating that you've made your point on this very topic so many times previously, you don't need to argue the point again and again.Your views are understood, many don't agree with them, some do. That you feel the way you do about manual 'boxes is your prerogative. Arguing it at every opportunity is becoming increasingly tedious. Contrary to what you may think, I respect your views (as I said, it doesn't mean I concur with them) but hearing the same argument repeatedly actually reduces it's impact and makes me question your objectivity on any subject matter.
And when it gets to the point individuals question the size of contributors genitalia. . . . .
anonymous said:
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Thing is though you can only change gear when it is warranted, not because you fancy it. So i reckon with a car that has any power, on a tightish road you'll only need 2nd and third (if an '03 Boxster S can 105mph in third more modern and more powerful cars should do more, how much faster are you going to go on a tightish B road?) or 3rd and 4th on a flowing, faster road. As I said, I'm completely in two minds over this sort of thing. On the one hand, it's nice to change gear and heel-and-toe and to indulge in utterdrivinggoddity, but for me, always in the back of my mind is the knowledge that a little black box and a few wires can do a much better and quicker job than me. Yet on the other hand I emphatically don't want awd and computer controlled diffs! Two things I have against paddle-shifts is being unable to block-change and the knowledge that one day we'll be scrapping cars because expensive failed gearshift electrickery prevents the owner from using the mechanical 'box in his car.
Regarding mechanical assistance and solutions etc: engineers have been assisting us literally from day 1, initially with obtaining the best steering geometries and angles etc. From day 1 engineers have utilised technology to supply the best cars possible, and today's engineers are doing no different. Steering has always been assisted by technology and know-how, and has also always been mechanically direct.
I guess it's up to the individual for him to decide when enough is enough - for the VSCC boys this was around 1930 when they decided that the way cars were being manufactured and the fact that cars pretty much drove themselves meant that a group needed to be formed to make the most of what was seen as a golden period of car manufacturing.
Steve12NG said:
I don't know what the hell you two are on about now, but I'll summarise my thoughts as...
I'm sick of people poo-pooing anything that doesn't have a manual box.
People who know far more than you and are far better drivers than you disagree. (ie. Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini, etc).
I am even more sick of people who try to claim anything other than an old fashioned row-boat box is only for people who can't drive and don't know anything about cars.
If you'd rather drive an old fashioned manual, fine. That's up to you.
But that doesn't make you a better driver.
It just means you probably have a small penis.
You must be the guy who put the ex in exaggeration! Welcome. I'm sick of people poo-pooing anything that doesn't have a manual box.
People who know far more than you and are far better drivers than you disagree. (ie. Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini, etc).
I am even more sick of people who try to claim anything other than an old fashioned row-boat box is only for people who can't drive and don't know anything about cars.
If you'd rather drive an old fashioned manual, fine. That's up to you.
But that doesn't make you a better driver.
It just means you probably have a small penis.
I don't think anybody is poo-pooing the presence of PDK in a GT3 here. I think a lot of the comments from enthusiasts of the GT3 is purely highlighting the lack of option to choose the manual. So you don't believe drivers should have the option to choose how much involvement they'd like to have in the act of driving a car they'd probably track for fun?
Porsche has apparently decided for all of us how we should drive in the track. Porsche has decided that the GT3 will only be used to chase ultimate lap times and hence put the PDK in it.
(OK, they probably did market research to find out what the majority of current GT3 drivers prefer or maybe costs are an issue)
Fine, but don't delude yourself in to thinking that's how everyone's going to be using their GT3s. Heck, I wouldn't even put this as a hardcore track car. The RS variant, yes, but I've always thought of GT3s as sitting in that nice middle ground between road and track-biased driving, so I would expect it to atleast have the option to let the driver choose the gearbox depending on how they intend to use the car.
Somewhere along the line in the quest for jam-packing a 'performance' variant of the 991 with lots of cool tech, Porsche have lost sight of what the bloody thing this whole driving shebang is about. There I've said it. I'm fully prepared to have my manhood questioned now!
Well, this is going well isn't it. 
I hear that it is not going so well on rennlist. I haven't checked, but apparently it's up to about 100 pages. Not sure whether posters genitialia has been brought up though?
My view? They should have offered both. They didn't probably because of cost and its a sad day but it was inevitable.
I think this is a mistake on every level. We shall see.
I hear that it is not going so well on rennlist. I haven't checked, but apparently it's up to about 100 pages. Not sure whether posters genitialia has been brought up though?
My view? They should have offered both. They didn't probably because of cost and its a sad day but it was inevitable.
I think this is a mistake on every level. We shall see.
anonymous said:
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It will probably be imperceptible to the driver under normal conditions, but the computers will have to be involved when limits are reached and surpassed.PDK doesn't interfere with car control, PDK actually increases your control over the car as you have 2 hands on the wheel.... that said I'm not a fan of PDK, I would always take a manual where there was a choice, but I would rather know, in a car like a GT3, that I was in control of the car using the throttle and feeling the grip through the wheel....
yes I would need traction control on a 475bhp RR car 90% of the time BUT I'd like to know I can turn it off and test myself, the GT3 should be hard to master, there should be an OFF switch that makes the ball bag tighten and your heartbeat a little faster...I can't see how you can have the interference fulyl off with this system??
Porsche will probably make it so you feel like you are steering the car on the throttle but you will know the computers are involved.
All the noise from many on here about the PDK gearbox and how it isn't true to their racing history is very interesting to read. I take is everyone knows where the PDK was developed and in which car? This one, the multiple Le Mans 24-hour winning 962, otherwise known as the most successful sports racing car there has ever been:
And Audi was also developing it at the same time, in this car:
Currently, all Porsche's customer racecars (Carrera Cup / 997 GT3-R / 997 RSR) are supplied with paddleshift boxes. Okay, these are not PDKs, but nor is a gearstick to be seen in their cockpits.
If the PDK was some ponderous automatic-with-buttons-on-the-steering-wheel system I could understand the frustration, but it isn't.
And Audi was also developing it at the same time, in this car:
Currently, all Porsche's customer racecars (Carrera Cup / 997 GT3-R / 997 RSR) are supplied with paddleshift boxes. Okay, these are not PDKs, but nor is a gearstick to be seen in their cockpits.
If the PDK was some ponderous automatic-with-buttons-on-the-steering-wheel system I could understand the frustration, but it isn't.
mollytherocker said:
Well, this is going well isn't it.
I hear that it is not going so well on rennlist. I haven't checked, but apparently it's up to about 100 pages. Not sure whether posters genitialia has been brought up though?
My view? They should have offered both. They didn't probably because of cost and its a sad day but it was inevitable.
I think this is a mistake on every level. We shall see.
Well, at least the discussion has moved on from the engine I hear that it is not going so well on rennlist. I haven't checked, but apparently it's up to about 100 pages. Not sure whether posters genitialia has been brought up though?
My view? They should have offered both. They didn't probably because of cost and its a sad day but it was inevitable.
I think this is a mistake on every level. We shall see.
Not that my opinion matters, but I for one, am looking forward to it, even though I love a manual box. I have my e46 M3 and will keep it, should I get a PDK GT3, so that covers all the bases (for my anyway). That being said: If I would buy a standard Carrera/S I would choose a manual.
By the by, did anyone else notice from the EVO video that Porsche now has the pdk knob + and - in the correct orientation now? Or was I just dreaming?
By the by, did anyone else notice from the EVO video that Porsche now has the pdk knob + and - in the correct orientation now? Or was I just dreaming?
I look at it this way ...
I love the technology, efficiency and speed of the 991 GT3 - I'm sure it will be very very fast. I very much look forward, at some point, to hopefully driving one. Porsche should be pursuing technology and speed - they cannot and should not pretend that PDK was not invented, that humans can change gear faster or that rev limits should stay at 7000.
I really enjoy changing gear - both making the decision of when to, and also the process of trying to do it smoothly and sometimes quickly - it gives me pleasure. I also double-declutch the lower gears, because to me it feels right and helps me drive better - regardless of whether there is a genuine benefit mechanically.
The 991 GT3 looks to be heading (based on assumption and pending actually driving one, of course) in the direction of the GT-R - very fast, almost unbelievably so - but less involving to drive 99% of the time.
I have a 964RS and over the last 10 years have thought many times about an 'upgrade' to the more modern GT3's. Every time I go through the thought process I come to the conclusion that I would undoubtedly be going faster in a GT3 (of whatever era/spec) - but that I would be having no more fun, and getting no more satisfaction (and spending more on tyres). I guess the only (mild) disappointment in not having a GT3 is that I can't keep up with those guys in the 997 GT3 RS's - but I can live with that. This new GT3 is going to put me even further back in my crusty old 964 - but I will be having no less fun.
In an ideal world I'd keep the 964 for when I want to try and develop some old school driving skills - and I'd have a 991 GT3 (RS when available) for when I want to blitz the rest of the track day crowd.
I love the technology, efficiency and speed of the 991 GT3 - I'm sure it will be very very fast. I very much look forward, at some point, to hopefully driving one. Porsche should be pursuing technology and speed - they cannot and should not pretend that PDK was not invented, that humans can change gear faster or that rev limits should stay at 7000.
I really enjoy changing gear - both making the decision of when to, and also the process of trying to do it smoothly and sometimes quickly - it gives me pleasure. I also double-declutch the lower gears, because to me it feels right and helps me drive better - regardless of whether there is a genuine benefit mechanically.
The 991 GT3 looks to be heading (based on assumption and pending actually driving one, of course) in the direction of the GT-R - very fast, almost unbelievably so - but less involving to drive 99% of the time.
I have a 964RS and over the last 10 years have thought many times about an 'upgrade' to the more modern GT3's. Every time I go through the thought process I come to the conclusion that I would undoubtedly be going faster in a GT3 (of whatever era/spec) - but that I would be having no more fun, and getting no more satisfaction (and spending more on tyres). I guess the only (mild) disappointment in not having a GT3 is that I can't keep up with those guys in the 997 GT3 RS's - but I can live with that. This new GT3 is going to put me even further back in my crusty old 964 - but I will be having no less fun.
In an ideal world I'd keep the 964 for when I want to try and develop some old school driving skills - and I'd have a 991 GT3 (RS when available) for when I want to blitz the rest of the track day crowd.
Good post Joe911.
I think that sums up what many of us, apparent ludites, feel.
Porsche cant ignore the tech and what it brings capability and speed wise. I guess we are just mourning the loss of more direct control and the steady hand over of responsibilities to computers.
But there is no other direction Porsche can go in.
I think that sums up what many of us, apparent ludites, feel.
Porsche cant ignore the tech and what it brings capability and speed wise. I guess we are just mourning the loss of more direct control and the steady hand over of responsibilities to computers.
But there is no other direction Porsche can go in.
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