RE: New BMW 1 M Coupe planned

[aeropilot]

161BMW said:

I just like the CS and the 325i (E30) because they were the BMWs I most desired when I was growing up.

When you do grow up, you'll learn to be more objective

[mlhj83]

cerb4.5lee said:

I own one & it's hardly way off the mark, the amount of people who say its just a 3 series with a big engine in it which is exactly what it is, I think mine is awesome in everyway but to the non petrol head it's just a 320d!

It's hardly a bespoke performance car when it's based on a reps 3 series that's a fact you can't get away from.

To be fair, technically speaking, all the current M cars are pretty much bespoke. The current E9X M3 for example is 80% different to a regular 3 series - a marketing figure I know, but if you dwell a bit deeper, you'll see the tremendous amount of engineering that has gone into an M car, especially in the chassis, transmission, electronics, body panels, etc. It does make you wonder how they manage to price the M3 so well compared to a top spec 3 series considering the amount of changes. For example, the M3 suspension (like the spring strut connection to wheel carrier) has been designed to take on considerably more load that would probably cause structural failure in a regular 3 series; or, the front and rear bumper brackets being carbon-kevlar instead of steel; or, EDC that takes data from the steering position and 3 accelerometers to continuously and variably adjust the dampers - comfort, normal, (ZCP) sport, aren't fixed suspension settings, which many think it is.

If you are interested, have a read of the the official M3's technical training info here, you'd be amazed by the level of detail of engineering (takes a little while to download):

http://www.e90fanatics.com/pdf/BMW-M3-Aftersales-T...

Edited by mlhj83 on Friday 15th March 08:24

Edited by mlhj83 on Friday 15th March 08:25

[ChrisBuer]

It doesn't matter what car forum I read, it's always the same. People always moan about new cars. I guess people just don't like change.

I've owned Elises and Exiges in the past and it was the same when the new model came out. There were comments like "the new car is heavier", "we don't like ABS as it's not a pure driving experience", "it's more expensive", etc. I've driven an S1 Elise and it's great fun, but it's not all rosy. It's harder to get into, the roof leaks more, it suffered from head gasket failures, etc.

Same story with the new M cars. The current M3 is overweight (apparently) although it's more powerful than it's predecessor. The 1M was a "parts bin special" that didn't have a "proper M engine" but the motoring press went wild over them. They saw it as a modern day E30 (e.g. Smallish, compact M car albeit with more grunt).

No doubt when the next generation of M cars comes out, people will moan that they aren't as pure as the E92. I on the otherhand will test drive them as if history is anything to go by, BMW M rarely get it wrong

Edited by ChrisBuer on Friday 15th March 08:23

[E38Ross]

Having driven both an E92 M3 and a 325i I can tell you that they are worlds apart if you ignore the power.

[s m]

Amirhussain said:

E30 M3 was based on a 3 series too..

.....and when they came out everyone moaned that it was only lhd....... and had a rough sounding 4-pot engine instead of a smooth 6-cylinder ....and the looks were too boy-racerish compared to the more subtle 325i......etc etc etc

Basically, you can't please everyone all the time

[Mermaid]

E38Ross said:

Having driven both an E92 M3 and a 325i I can tell you that they are worlds apart if you ignore the power.

& the price difference, a world apart?

[kambites]

E38Ross said:

Having driven both an E92 M3 and a 325i I can tell you that they are worlds apart if you ignore the power.

They certainly feel fairly different, but I wouldn't say "worlds apart". An M3 still feels more like a 3-series than it does anything else.

[E38Ross]

Mermaid said:

E38Ross said:

Having driven both an E92 M3 and a 325i I can tell you that they are worlds apart if you ignore the power.

& the price difference, a world apart?

What has price got to do with this conversation? Someone said they're just a 3 series with a big engine. I beg to differ. Yes, it's more expensive.

[mlhj83]

kambites said:

They certainly feel fairly different, but I wouldn't say "worlds apart". An M3 still feels more like a 3-series than it does anything else.

Humbly disagree. From an objective point of view, just looking at the parts difference alone, let alone "feel", geometry setup, etc., the M3 is worlds apart from a 3 series. Numerically speaking, 80% parts difference is significant, whichever way you look at it. Kindly have a thorough look at the technical training info document that I posted in my previous post.

Edited by mlhj83 on Friday 15th March 09:01

[kambites]

mlhj83 said:

kambites said:

They certainly feel fairly different, but I wouldn't say "worlds apart". An M3 still feels more like a 3-series than it does anything else.

Humbly disagree. From an objective point of view, just looking at the parts difference alone, let alone "feel", geometry setup, etc., the M3 is worlds apart from a 3 series. Kindly have a thorough look at the technical training info document that I posted in my previous post.

I was simply referring to how they drive; I don't really care about the technical differences (well I do care, but I don't think it's relevant to this point). The M3 always feels like a 3-series to me, first and foremost. Just a much better 3-series.

[mlhj83]

kambites said:

mlhj83 said:

kambites said:

They certainly feel fairly different, but I wouldn't say "worlds apart". An M3 still feels more like a 3-series than it does anything else.

Humbly disagree. From an objective point of view, just looking at the parts difference alone, let alone "feel", geometry setup, etc., the M3 is worlds apart from a 3 series. Kindly have a thorough look at the technical training info document that I posted in my previous post.

I was simply referring to how they drive; I don't really care about the technical differences (well I do care, but I don't think it's relevant to this point). The M3 always feels like a 3-series to me, first and foremost. Just a much better 3-series.

Regular driving on public roads, they feel fairly different, but take it to challenging roads or on track, the difference is night and day.

[161BMW]

aeropilot said:

161BMW said:

I just like the CS and the 325i (E30) because they were the BMWs I most desired when I was growing up.

When you do grow up, you'll learn to be more objective

I can see rather than being respectful u are one of these people on PH that likes to cause fights

[kambites]

mlhj83 said:

On public roads they feel fairly different, but take it to challenging roads or on track, the difference is night and day.

Probably, but what proportion of M3 owners ever take their car to a racing track? I doubt it's more than 5% and wouldn't be surprised if it's less than 1%.

[E38Ross]

kambites said:

mlhj83 said:

On public roads they feel fairly different, but take it to challenging roads or on track, the difference is night and day.

Probably, but what proportion of M3 owners ever take their car to a racing track? I doubt it's more than 5% and wouldn't be surprised if it's less than 1%.

He did say or challenging roads too you know. And I bet it's nearer 99%

[mlhj83]

kambites said:

Probably, but what proportion of M3 owners ever take their car to a racing track?

What proportion take any performance car to the track, majority don't, I agree, but the point is these cars are engineered to be significantly different, and those that do, like myself, do appreciate where all the money has gone: http://www.youtube.com/user/mlhj83/videos?view=0&a...

[kambites]

E38Ross said:

He did say or challenging roads too you know. And I bet it's nearer 99%

I must admit I haven't driven an E92 really hard, but I have driven an E46 M3 hard and it felt... like an improved 3-series.

[kambites]

mlhj83 said:

kambites said:

Probably, but what proportion of M3 owners ever take their car to a racing track?

What proportion take any performance car to the track, majority don't, I agree, but the point is these cars are engineered to be significantly different, and those that do, like myself, do appreciate where all the money has gone: http://www.youtube.com/user/mlhj83/videos?view=0&a...

Oh there is no question in my mind that the M3 isn't worth the extra money. The differences are easily worth the difference in price. It baffles me how BMW can manage to set up the M3 so well, and make such a complete pigs ear of the "M-Sport" suspension on the regular 3-series.

[mlhj83]

kambites said:

mlhj83 said:

kambites said:

Probably, but what proportion of M3 owners ever take their car to a racing track?

What proportion take any performance car to the track, majority don't, I agree, but the point is these cars are engineered to be significantly different, and those that do, like myself, do appreciate where all the money has gone: http://www.youtube.com/user/mlhj83/videos?view=0&a...

Oh there is no question in my mind that the M3 isn't worth the extra money. The differences are easily worth the difference in price. It baffles me how BMW can manage to set up the M3 so well, and make such a complete pigs ear of the "M-Sport" suspension on the regular 3-series.

I suspect M-sport is developed by series production engineers and not by M division, hence the difference.

[kambites]

mlhj83 said:

I suspect M-sport is developed by series production engineers and not by M division, hence the difference.

Almost certainly true, but I wonder how many people don't know that and are put off ever trying an M3 because the "M-Sport" suspension is so poor?

[mlhj83]

kambites said:

mlhj83 said:

I suspect M-sport is developed by series production engineers and not by M division, hence the difference.

Almost certainly true, but I wonder how many people don't know that and are put off ever trying an M3 because the "M-Sport" suspension is so poor?

I guess it doesn't really matter, most regular buyers don't and even if the suspension was really really good, all that matters to majority of buyers is that the car looks good, has a good badge, relatively well built, relatively practical, handles well in everyday situation, is comfortable enough and goes sufficiently fast with minimal effort. They wouldn't bother whether there is balance, being able to steer with the throttle or whether the car is adjustable at the limit etc.