MK1 Freelander really as bad as reviews make out?

[CraigyMc]

300bhp/ton said:

CraigyMc said:

The engine in my elise had plastic dowels, replaced with metal ones and a proper gasket, and failed again about 300 miles later.

Your words are directly contradicted by my experience.

C

If it failed 300 miles later that either suggest something else was the cause, often a HG failure is a symptom of something else. Or it wasn't fixed properly. Did you ever get it sorted?

It was rebuilt by a guy who rebuilds elises and K's for fun (a racer who has won several hillclimb championships in a K elise).

After the second rebuild I swore I'd never have another Rover K powered car, and sold it.

I corresponded with the guy who bought it from me and apparently other than a change of brakes and some sundries it did 15000 trouble free miles including several trackdays afterward. I lost track of it after that and it's not been on askmid's insurance records since 2008, so it was either scrapped or exported (or SORNed).

C

[vrooom]

that garage has been trying to shift that car so offered you straight swap.... so the garage can sell focus easier.

[300bhp/ton]

longblackcoat said:

I had one sitting on my driveway 3 days ago.

Mk I.

Petrol.

Rubbish.

I don't care whether Honda designed the gearbox, nor whether the Good Lord Almighty styled it. All I know is that [b]it was terrible in almost every way[b/]

So are you actually going to come up with anything factual or even technical to support your claims, or is it going to be continued irrational hatred?

longblackcoat said:

, with NVH that would embarrass a Mk III Escort.

It's a 4x4, although any FL I've been in is far quieter and smoother than a Disco, Range Rover and plenty of other SUV's.

So I'm curious how you are basing this assumption? Generally in the press the FL was praised for it's ride and refinement. Was the FL you drove running odd tyres or maybe had a VCU failure - the noise and vibrations are hints that you need to replace something and driving it like that is pure abuse.

longblackcoat said:

And I kept banging my head as I climbed in and out.

So that makes it a terrible car does??? :rolf:

Using your perverted logic I bet an Elise, every Ferrari, a Lambo and many others are all terrible cars as you might bang your head getting in or out??

BTW - are you tall, or just not very mobile?

longblackcoat said:

I've seen the teardown results from when I worked in the motor industry.

What did you do in the motor industry?

longblackcoat said:

Sadly, the Freelander's just a substandard product, in terms of design, reliability, and longevity.

And here we are again. Please provide details on what exactly is "substandard". I'd really like to know in your professional motor industry experience what and how they are substandard, and how exactly they should have been designed.

[elephantstone]

Based on a slight memory of reading reviews when i was about 14. I'd have a mk1 RAV4, 2.0 petrol and i seem to recall they had hot hatch performance (for the mid to late 90's)? 10 or 11 seconds to 60? Cant be that bad off road i.e getting off a field? and ofcourse your bound to get the toyota halo of trust in its oily bits?

I could be wrong with all that ive just said as i cant be arsed to look at reviews or specs or anything...

[Loplop]

My 2c here: HGF on a K Series can often cause the metal to warp, people often overlook this and assume that replacing the headgasket with the upgraded item will solve the issue. This is basically closing the barn door once the horse has already bolted.

They don't always warp and replacing the headgaskets with the upgraded items means that they can carry on for a long long time, no less than any other modern engine.

Would I have one? No.

Are they a bad engine? No.

Could it of been done better? Lord yes.

If you're set on a Freelander, get a later one with the BMW derived 2.0 Diesel. After years of avoiding them because of all the stigma, my Dad ended up with a 53 plate Calahari and it was a bloody brilliant bus save for the fuel pump on the inside of the wheelarch liner.

[toppstuff]

300bhp/ton said:

lots of lalalala i'm not listening stuff

Are you the self appointed defender of the LR faith?

Why?

I am a fan of JLR. I like their current product range a lot.

But I am bewildered as to why you defend this car and try to shout down the opinions of other people - people who have also owned the Freelander 1.

The facts are that plenty of people with ownership experience of these wretched vehicles have explained why ( based on their own experience ) they found the car unsatisfactory.

You may not like the facts, but they are facts nevertheless.

Your view is contrary. Good for you. Glad you have the chance to tell us, to offer an alternative.

But telling an ex-owner they are wrong is just pathetic. They are not wrong. They owned a Freelander 1. They thought it was crap. End of. Stop trying to tell people what to think.

[ClaphamGT3]

All these people who talk about how un-refined they are and how they shake, rattle & squeak cant have been in one; on the motorway, cruising at 80-85mph ours is one of the smoothest, quietest, most relaxing cars to drive I've ever been in. Its ride is at least as good as our E63 AMG Estate in comfort suspension mode

[toppstuff]

ClaphamGT3 said:

All these people who talk about how un-refined they are and how they shake, rattle & squeak cant have been in one; on the motorway, cruising at 80-85mph ours is one of the smoothest, quietest, most relaxing cars to drive I've ever been in. Its ride is at least as good as our E63 AMG Estate in comfort suspension mode

Did you have a blindfold on? Maybe you were confused and in a different car?

There must be a wide variation in different Freelander Mark 1's. The guy who thatched my house and barn ran a particularly nasty diesel FR1. It looked nice, but it rattled and crashed around like a load of bolts inside a biscuit tin.

[300bhp/ton]

toppstuff said:

Are you the self appointed defender of the LR faith?

?????

toppstuff said:

But I am bewildered as to why you defend this car and try to shout down the opinions of other people - people who have also owned the Freelander 1.

Have you read this thread? Most people who've owned one seem to say they liked it. It's those that haven't that seem to be claiming they are rubbish. Don't take my word for it, go back and re-read what's been said.

toppstuff said:

The facts are that plenty of people with ownership experience of these wretched vehicles have explained why ( based on their own experience ) they found the car unsatisfactory.

But they haven't, this is my entire point or at least part of it. Nobody has really said what is wrong with them. All that's been said:


-a self proclaimed motor industry person hits their head on ingress. It is then a substandard product

-1 person has complained about NVH and how unrefined they are even compared to MK Escort. Even typing this out you can see how daft such a claim is

-The usual K-Series HG tripe that is always rolled out. Yes it is an issue, but it is, as proven my many owners not really such a major problem. And besides the FL could be had with 3 completely different engines. So even if you don't like the 1.8 K, that is hardly conclusive that the entire vehicle is "wretched" or "badly designed".

-VCU failure. Which as the component has a life expectancy is not unexpected. And I'm sure other makes of car that use similar systems suffer similar results, just without the internet hype.

-Abuse of the vehicle after VCU failure. Which causes additional damage. Obviously people don't like to take responsibility for their own actions and it's far easier to blame the vehicle and car maker. I wonder if you drove your Ferrari without any oil in the engine would you also consider this a substandard product when the engine would inevitable fail?


And that's pretty much it. What else "specifically" have you seen claimed or posted?

toppstuff said:

You may not like the facts, but they are facts nevertheless.

What facts??? I've seen pretty much naff all in the way of facts, hence why I keep asking for them.

toppstuff said:

Your view is contrary. Good for you. Glad you have the chance to tell us, to offer an alternative.

But I'm not the only one, there are several people in this thread who've owned or own one and have said they have had no issues with them

toppstuff said:

But telling an ex-owner they are wrong is just pathetic.

An ex-worker of what? Sadly I left my crystal ball at home, so I truly none little more about a poster than the info they provide in their post or profile.

toppstuff said:

They are not wrong. They owned a Freelander 1. They thought it was crap. End of. Stop trying to tell people what to think.

Who are you talking about??

[Sir Fergie]

300bhp/ton said:

Metro and there have literally been hundreds of thousands of K-Series built and in use daily.

I admit most HG issues hail from the 1.6 and 1.8 versions not the 1.4, but there really is a lot of good info on how to prevent and resolve HG issues on the K-Series. I don't think anyone would ever say it isn't a risk, but in return you get an advanced (even by todays standard) gem of an engine.

I have been thinking recently that if everyone knew about all the issues with modern diesels at the time there was huge publicity about K series head gaskets - the K series head gasket would be a non story.

Yes it happens - but i think it is actually possible for a k series owner to get the issue sorted and get back on the road - not always the case with modern diesels due to sheer expense.

There was a tread started lately by another PHer (MG John i think) who bought a 25 with HG failure and fixed it himself - it might have been in readers cars.

Now im not going to defend the K series as ive no experience of it - but it seems to me that the modern diesel issues are a lot more bothersome then the K series head gasket issue.

Sir Fergie

[sparkyhx]

nobody is saying the car WILL go wrong, just more chance than alternatives. There will be stories of unreliable cars doing 200k and reliable cars being sh*t.

Its a game of how much risk do you want to take.
As for evidence drive one and experience the boat like steering steering input, delay, steering result.

The first few times you end up double steering as you think nothing is happening

[CraigyMc]

Sir Fergie said:

There was a tread started lately by another PHer (MG John i think) who bought a 25 with HG failure and fixed it himself - it might have been in readers cars.

This is a fair point.
I could have taken the K apart on my own (the main reason I didn't was that I wanted the cambelt changed too and the crank pulley bolt needs a lot more torque than you can get on it unless you can fit an enormous breaker bar under the car, like when it's on ramps).

I don't think you'll find many people saying it's all that hard of a job. It's the fact that the job needs doing at all that's the problem.

C

[sparkyhx]

nobody is saying the car WILL go wrong, just more chance than alternatives. There will be stories of unreliable cars doing 200k and reliable cars being sh*t.

Its a game of how much risk do you want to take.
As for evidence drive one and experience the boat like steering steering input, delay, steering result.

The first few times you end up double steering as you think nothing is happening if that's not a design flaw

[Jaldi]

CraigyMc said:

The engine in my elise had plastic dowels, replaced with metal ones and a proper gasket, and failed again about 300 miles later.

Your words are directly contradicted by my experience.

And mine.
We had a 1.8 petrol FL. for 4 or 5 years. It was the wife's car, mainly used for commuting and for carting our great dane about. (He loved the electric boot window)
I used to like driving the FL now and then. I found it to be slow but very nice and comfortable inside for what it was, none of the mentioned horrible rattles or other NVH mentioned in this thread. Also, I don't know how tall the guy who kept banging his head is, but I'm 6'2" and I never had that problem, maybe he's a giant or a clumsy bugger.

After buying the FL I became aware of the terrible reputation they had and the existence of www.freelanderheadgasket.co.uk. But ours was problem free for the first 3 years, from 50-odd thousand miles to 90-odd.
Then the head gasket went. I changed it myself with uprated parts from a Lotus specialist. (Metal dowels, uprated gasket etc.). It was fine again for another year or so.
At ~110K miles the head gasket went again. I was too busy with work at the time so we put it into a local garage that has a lot of experience doing k-series head gaskets.

By the third time the head gasket went, at around ~115K, we'd had enough. So it was repaired and the car sold.

It was a good car apart from the HGFs. I'd happily have another one but not with the 1.8 k-series engine.

Edited by Jaldi on Friday 15th March 21:12

[TankRS]

Well I test drove it this morning. Sadly/strangely had one of the sales people in with me during the test (never had that before, usually just me testing it). So I couldn't give it the full shakedown I had planned for it, as he dictated where I took the car.

Can’t say I was that fussed with it tbh. Now I'm not sure if any of these are normal having never driven one before but –

• The gear box felt loose, and it didn't like going into 5th at all. Could have been me making a mash of it mind.

• There was a constant ‘whurring’ noise, like a bearing going, that resonated throughout the car in all gears and all speeds. I’m assuming this was the sound of the diffs/prop shaft as it didn’t get any louder at speed like a bearing does. Possibly the budget brand tyres on the car too?

• The condensation in the car was terrible and the windscreen struggled to clear on full and with air-con on.

• I couldn’t adjust the seating position low enough as I’d like, found myself staring down at the road as opposed to out at the road. Despite being 6’2 I didn’t have the banging my head issue

• Low down torque was great, but got quite sluggish in all gears as revs rose.

• The rear squatted a little compared to the FL it was sat next too, so assumed rear suspension was on way out.

• Boot window didn’t work, but said they’d probably get that sorted!?

As I said a sales bod was in with me for the entire 10 minute blast through a 30 zone and 2 minute ‘speed run’ on a national limit stretch. Which didn’t really give me a chance to test the 4x4ness of it.
I had planned to take it up over a mountain I knew that has a decent sized gravel lay-by with large grassy areas too, as I wanted to test that all 4 wheels gripped.

Sales guy had no idea if it had been converted to 2wd and as it was chucking it down I didn’t fancy lying on the ground to see if it all worked. That and I didn’t really know what to look for!

I also wanted to take it up this road as it was a good steep gradient and I could see just how well it pulled up there.

I disliked the leather seats too tbh, i kept sliding about in them!
(tho that’s more than likely to be the product the dealer put on it to make it look/smell nice)

The other thing that really put me off was the fact the sales guy said that the last owner had mainly used it to pull his caravan around the UK and most of southern France.

I won’t be taking the dealer up on his offer on this particular Freelander, but may give the TD4 a go if one crops up in budget.

So far the only one I’ve seen close is a FL2 TD4 with 178k on the clock and part service history and supposedly never had/needed any work!?!?

[Fire99]

Jaldi said:

I'd happily have another one but not with the 1.8 k-series engine.

And to be honest, I think that is the crux of the issue with Freelanders. The difference in price between a 1.8 and a Diesel isn't enough to keep your fingers crossed about HGF etc.

[fat freddie]

Well, here we are, five pages later.

TankRS said:

Well I test drove it this morning.

• The gear box felt loose, and it didn't like going into 5th at all. Could have been me making a mash of it mind.
• There was a constant ‘whurring’ noise, like a bearing going, that resonated throughout the car in all gears and all speeds.

fat freddie said:

problems with the gearboxes...

• The condensation in the car was terrible and the windscreen struggled to clear on full and with air-con on.

fat freddie said:

problems with leaks, both from the car's mechanical bits onto the floor and water into the cabin from numerous sources.

• The rear squatted a little compared to the FL it was sat next too, so assumed rear suspension was on way out.

fat freddie said:

Steering and suspension problems...

• Boot window didn’t work, but said they’d probably get that sorted!?

fat freddie said:

all manner of electrical issues...

No doubt this'll get shouted down by the forum's resident BL/Rover apologist (every forum has one) but that's all pretty much as you'd expect in any FL.

As for all 300's 'prove it' posts, there was an article in CAR magazine (usually quite pro-British in outlook) a few years back just after the launch of the FL and R75 and it painted a very bleak picture of design and build faults ion both cars. So there's plenty proof, I just CBA scanning it to prove what everyone else knows about these things.

End of the day, it's your choice, your money. You've been warned about them by just about everyone on here so you can make an informed choice yourself.
I wish you luck.

[Dominicc01]

Hmmmmmm. My views on the Mk1 Freelander are mixed.

If I were buying for me, no problem (well actually I'd buy a Rangie but that's by-the-by).

But for a non-petrolhead, never.

I remember my Dad wanted one almost 10 years ago, for his wife. I advised against. I explained all of the problems, and the frequency with which they occur. I eventually agreed that if they were to buy a Freelander, to buy the diseasal and not the 1.8.

So they bought a 1.8.

Now I should explain: my Dad is no PHer. In fact, preventative maintenance maintenance is total anathema to him. His view is that, if a car is drieveable, it's fine (and his views on driveability may be different from ours - he has been known to keep driving cars with destroyed suspension and shredded tyres).

So inevitably, his Freelander died of HGF, knackered viscous coupling, knackered suspension, etc.


But if I were buying one for myself, I know what to look for, so wouldn't have the slightest worry.

[Dave200]

Evidence, you say?

The freelander came 167/182 in the 2001 jd power survey. That's not a coincidence, you know... but I'm sure you will manage to shout this down somehow.

[Jaldi]

Dave200 said:

The freelander came 167/182 in the 2001 jd power survey. That's not a coincidence, you know

What's not coincidence? Not a coincidence with what?