RE: Porsche Panamera Diesel: PH Fleet
Discussion
Guvernator said:
I'm not a Porsche must ONLY build sportscars purists so I have huge respect for the fact that Porsche have built a very well made, comfortable 4 door with a great range of engines and decent driving characteristics. However I really wish to God that they'd done something a bit more cohesive with the looks. A stretched 911 is NOT a good look IMO and I really wish Porsche would take a bit of a risk on some of their cars and step away from the 911 jelly mould sometimes.
Still the Cayenne has been improved immensely from it's original 911 on stilts look with each facelift iteration and is now rather a handsome beast with it's own identity so I'm hopeful the Panemara will go the same way. Bring on the next Panamera facelift.
Have to agree. This design needs to be well left alone. But it won't. It will be facelifted and tested for generations to come.Still the Cayenne has been improved immensely from it's original 911 on stilts look with each facelift iteration and is now rather a handsome beast with it's own identity so I'm hopeful the Panemara will go the same way. Bring on the next Panamera facelift.
A good friend has just picked up one of these. I'm seriously impressed. Feels well screwed together, 'sporty' and well appointed interior. It even sounds good... for a diesel.
His is fresh out of the box and delivering close to 40mpg. It was parked up in his drive this weekend, same colour as Monkeys, weathered by snow and grit salt. It's got road presence, but it's no XJ to look at.
His is fresh out of the box and delivering close to 40mpg. It was parked up in his drive this weekend, same colour as Monkeys, weathered by snow and grit salt. It's got road presence, but it's no XJ to look at.
I've just had one of these as a courtesy car for a week and was just blown away by it: lovely to drive, ridiculously economical (I struggled to get below 50mpg average in mixed driving on Highland roads), build quality is superb etc etc. And one of the great advantages of driving it is that you don't have to look at it! It is a bloody big car however: Having parked up at the roadside, I walked away, looked back and saw how much it was overhanging the parking bay in all directions - embarrassed by my bad parking, I went back to repark it, only to find that it WAS right up to the kerb... If it had 4WD and a bit more ground clearance, I'd be seriously considering one. But that would be a Cayenne…
For what's it's worth, I've had an E61 525d Touring, over 5 years averaged less than 30mpg, currently running F11 530d Touring, over 15000 miles, averaging 32mpg, the only way to get this over 40mpg is on a motorway, less than 70mph. I'm not a fast driver - even though my bro races with Monkey
The figures for the Panam look amazing, to ride in and drive they are great bits of kit, if you specced an F11 535d Touring to £60,000, you'd loose a hell of a lot more after 2 years
The figures for the Panam look amazing, to ride in and drive they are great bits of kit, if you specced an F11 535d Touring to £60,000, you'd loose a hell of a lot more after 2 years
Kermit79 said:
I agree with the sentiments that road driving (in the UK) is becoming more about getting to a location and therefore a form of transport as opposed to a fun experience (not that I like that it has come to this). So would you rather do 38 mpg in a diesel or 25mpg in a more fun car and sit in traffic for 85% of your time where performance is meaningless.
The roads in the UK are becoming more and more clogged and fast road cars are becoming less and less relevant, unless you are lucky enough to have some traffic free roads easily accessible (lucky beggars). Track days/motorsport are becoming more and more prevalent as a result.
I have taken the crazy decision, some might say, in buying a Smart Brabus roadster coupe, for the reason that, it returns 50mpg, it is fun enough, and for people saying that they are slow, I got frustrated on the way down to Goodwood Press day because I couldn't drive above 5/10ths on the way there or back and yes I could overtake, but when you are in a queue of traffic 10-20 cars long there is simply no point.
I have driven all sorts of Ferraris, Lambos, Porsches etc, and they frustrate as much as they deliver due to the road conditions that we all have to deal with.
I think that Toyota/Subaru with the GT86/BRZ are moving in the right direction, realising that driving enjoyment is as much about feel and interaction, and the act of physically driving as opposed to willy waving headline figures for performance that if attained in front of many parties would be frowned at, let alone what Plod would think.
Efficient, light weight, involved driving machines are becoming more and more relevant(for some), fuel is going one way, a car that can achieve early 20's in mpg will render itself impossible for most to run in the next 10 years due to the aforementioned fuel prices.
Classic car ownership is a release from the some of the problems above, as many of these cars can be driven at 7/8 tenths on the road safely, giving a level of feedback modern cars can not hope to provide.
The more and more I think, the more a Lotus Elise S1 looks like a winner for a long term investment.
I've had and driven lots of very quick and exotic cars but I agree with you that its not all about driving fast these days. I just want to drive something that looks good, is comfortable and returns good fuel consumption.The roads in the UK are becoming more and more clogged and fast road cars are becoming less and less relevant, unless you are lucky enough to have some traffic free roads easily accessible (lucky beggars). Track days/motorsport are becoming more and more prevalent as a result.
I have taken the crazy decision, some might say, in buying a Smart Brabus roadster coupe, for the reason that, it returns 50mpg, it is fun enough, and for people saying that they are slow, I got frustrated on the way down to Goodwood Press day because I couldn't drive above 5/10ths on the way there or back and yes I could overtake, but when you are in a queue of traffic 10-20 cars long there is simply no point.
I have driven all sorts of Ferraris, Lambos, Porsches etc, and they frustrate as much as they deliver due to the road conditions that we all have to deal with.
I think that Toyota/Subaru with the GT86/BRZ are moving in the right direction, realising that driving enjoyment is as much about feel and interaction, and the act of physically driving as opposed to willy waving headline figures for performance that if attained in front of many parties would be frowned at, let alone what Plod would think.
Efficient, light weight, involved driving machines are becoming more and more relevant(for some), fuel is going one way, a car that can achieve early 20's in mpg will render itself impossible for most to run in the next 10 years due to the aforementioned fuel prices.
Classic car ownership is a release from the some of the problems above, as many of these cars can be driven at 7/8 tenths on the road safely, giving a level of feedback modern cars can not hope to provide.
The more and more I think, the more a Lotus Elise S1 looks like a winner for a long term investment.
I'd love another Ferrari but there isn't anywhere really to use them unless you go to a trackday.
Kermit79 said:
I agree with the sentiments that road driving (in the UK) is becoming more about getting to a location and therefore a form of transport as opposed to a fun experience (not that I like that it has come to this). So would you rather do 38 mpg in a diesel or 25mpg in a more fun car and sit in traffic for 85% of your time where performance is meaningless.
The roads in the UK are becoming more and more clogged and fast road cars are becoming less and less relevant, unless you are lucky enough to have some traffic free roads easily accessible (lucky beggars). Track days/motorsport are becoming more and more prevalent as a result.
I have taken the crazy decision, some might say, in buying a Smart Brabus roadster coupe, for the reason that, it returns 50mpg, it is fun enough, and for people saying that they are slow, I got frustrated on the way down to Goodwood Press day because I couldn't drive above 5/10ths on the way there or back and yes I could overtake, but when you are in a queue of traffic 10-20 cars long there is simply no point.
I have driven all sorts of Ferraris, Lambos, Porsches etc, and they frustrate as much as they deliver due to the road conditions that we all have to deal with.
I think that Toyota/Subaru with the GT86/BRZ are moving in the right direction, realising that driving enjoyment is as much about feel and interaction, and the act of physically driving as opposed to willy waving headline figures for performance that if attained in front of many parties would be frowned at, let alone what Plod would think.
Efficient, light weight, involved driving machines are becoming more and more relevant(for some), fuel is going one way, a car that can achieve early 20's in mpg will render itself impossible for most to run in the next 10 years due to the aforementioned fuel prices.
Classic car ownership is a release from the some of the problems above, as many of these cars can be driven at 7/8 tenths on the road safely, giving a level of feedback modern cars can not hope to provide.
The more and more I think, the more a Lotus Elise S1 looks like a winner for a long term investment.
+1 - very well said. Sad, but true.The roads in the UK are becoming more and more clogged and fast road cars are becoming less and less relevant, unless you are lucky enough to have some traffic free roads easily accessible (lucky beggars). Track days/motorsport are becoming more and more prevalent as a result.
I have taken the crazy decision, some might say, in buying a Smart Brabus roadster coupe, for the reason that, it returns 50mpg, it is fun enough, and for people saying that they are slow, I got frustrated on the way down to Goodwood Press day because I couldn't drive above 5/10ths on the way there or back and yes I could overtake, but when you are in a queue of traffic 10-20 cars long there is simply no point.
I have driven all sorts of Ferraris, Lambos, Porsches etc, and they frustrate as much as they deliver due to the road conditions that we all have to deal with.
I think that Toyota/Subaru with the GT86/BRZ are moving in the right direction, realising that driving enjoyment is as much about feel and interaction, and the act of physically driving as opposed to willy waving headline figures for performance that if attained in front of many parties would be frowned at, let alone what Plod would think.
Efficient, light weight, involved driving machines are becoming more and more relevant(for some), fuel is going one way, a car that can achieve early 20's in mpg will render itself impossible for most to run in the next 10 years due to the aforementioned fuel prices.
Classic car ownership is a release from the some of the problems above, as many of these cars can be driven at 7/8 tenths on the road safely, giving a level of feedback modern cars can not hope to provide.
The more and more I think, the more a Lotus Elise S1 looks like a winner for a long term investment.
I don't get the hate for these cars. Sure, it's not really what Pork are known for but they're not exactly any uglier than most contemporary Teutonic vee-hicles. It's less of a wag-wagon than the Cayenne. If I was in the market for luxury + economy I'd definitely consider one of these alongside whatever BMW had to offer.
just off to switzerland in the cayenne, to be honest i would rather have the Panamera, give me the 4wd and its done!
both are two of the absolute best cars i have driven on a long journey, and at the end of the day if you do any miles thats what you want.
i can qute safely say that if i had to sell all the cars and keep one the porsche would be it, i can see why chris is lamenting!
both are two of the absolute best cars i have driven on a long journey, and at the end of the day if you do any miles thats what you want.
i can qute safely say that if i had to sell all the cars and keep one the porsche would be it, i can see why chris is lamenting!
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