RE: Camaro Z/28: New York Motor Show
Discussion
JREwing said:
The relationship that the leaf setup in the Corvette has is like saying that the spring in a biro is the same as those in a car's suspension because they're both a coil.
It's not. Does anybody notice that it's transverse?
I am constantly surprised that this isn't used more often, makes torsion bars (incl coils) look really rather poorly conceived.It's not. Does anybody notice that it's transverse?
motoxyogi said:
Never owned one. Just a keyboard warriors impression based video games 
and assumptions based on other 2~ tonne cars i've ridden in.
An opinion on something you never even driven. Ok... and assumptions based on other 2~ tonne cars i've ridden in. Seriously, I have never heard of the Camaro being wallowy or soft. The main complaint is visibility and weight. BTW it's weight is not that egregious when you consider a lot of modern sports cars have similar weights. For example an M6 is 4200 LBS.
IDrinkPetrol said:
JREwing said:
The relationship that the leaf setup in the Corvette has is like saying that the spring in a biro is the same as those in a car's suspension because they're both a coil.
It's not. Does anybody notice that it's transverse?
I am constantly surprised that this isn't used more often, makes torsion bars (incl coils) look really rather poorly conceived.It's not. Does anybody notice that it's transverse?
I suspect the conversation is only aired again as it is rooted in ignorance. "Clarkson once said, yada, yada, parrot..."
I read an interesting blog earlier from an American talking about the decline of the muscle car. Not in terms of purity, output or numbers, but in accessibility. Regular Joe can't afford a new Camaro any more. I had no experience of the Muscle Car era obviously, but it was an interesting commentary.
motoxyogi said:
chevy-stu said:
Surprised you judged the new gen Camaro as soft and spongy.. just curious how long you owned yours ?
Never owned one. Just a keyboard warriors impression based video games and assumptions based on other 2~ tonne cars i've ridden in. 
Art0ir said:
I read an interesting blog earlier from an American talking about the decline of the muscle car. Not in terms of purity, output or numbers, but in accessibility. Regular Joe can't afford a new Camaro any more. I had no experience of the Muscle Car era obviously, but it was an interesting commentary.
I think that's the most interesting point. . These modern muscle cars are too pricey for the average younger driver to buy and run.. tvrolet said:
Must just be the spring then. Remind me again why relying on twisting a metal rod formed into a coil is a better option than bending a carbon composite rod when the latter is lighter, doesn't rust, has had no reported failures, has reduced unsprung weight, has better natural damping, can be configured to give a degree of anti-roll and has better packaging.
Yes I am aware that the corvette uses a transverse leaf spring and yes I am referring to the spring.Your first couple points I can't argue with because I agree with them though the weight difference is small, what do you mean by better natural damping, do you mean compared to a coil spring on its own? If so then yes it does have, which is great if your shock absorber (aka damper) is trashed yet you still insist on driving. Your car will stop pogoing slightly sooner after you hit a bump, say a couple of minutes after you stop.
It can also be configured to give roll, but still requires anti-roll bars but in this case i'm just nit picking.
The packaging benefits of a transverse leaf spring is debatable, coil over springs can fit into a much smaller space. Within the footprint of the double wishbones.
There are several disadvantages that I can see, the system can't be preloaded beyond the weight of the car which is a limiting factor for ride quality and also for traction. Non-linear spring rates, lack of adjustability, which makes tuning suspension set up an absolute pain in the ass I imagine, not to mention the associated costs of getting new leaf springs. They have limited suspension travel so you'll never find this kind of system on an off roader.
All-in-all its an excellent system for use on mass produced street cars, if you want high end performance you look elsewhere
motoxyogi said:
Yes I am aware that the corvette uses a transverse leaf spring and yes I am referring to the spring.
Your first couple points I can't argue with because I agree with them though the weight difference is small, what do you mean by better natural damping, do you mean compared to a coil spring on its own? If so then yes it does have, which is great if your shock absorber (aka damper) is trashed yet you still insist on driving. Your car will stop pogoing slightly sooner after you hit a bump, say a couple of minutes after you stop.
It can also be configured to give roll, but still requires anti-roll bars but in this case i'm just nit picking.
The packaging benefits of a transverse leaf spring is debatable, coil over springs can fit into a much smaller space. Within the footprint of the double wishbones.
There are several disadvantages that I can see, the system can't be preloaded beyond the weight of the car which is a limiting factor for ride quality and also for traction. Non-linear spring rates, lack of adjustability, which makes tuning suspension set up an absolute pain in the ass I imagine, not to mention the associated costs of getting new leaf springs. They have limited suspension travel so you'll never find this kind of system on an off roader.
All-in-all its an excellent system for use on mass produced street cars, if you want high end performance you look elsewhere
Did you just call the say that you need to look elsewhere when looking for high end performance? You do realize that the ZR1 has beat other "high end" performances cars costing more than twice as much numerous times now. Your first couple points I can't argue with because I agree with them though the weight difference is small, what do you mean by better natural damping, do you mean compared to a coil spring on its own? If so then yes it does have, which is great if your shock absorber (aka damper) is trashed yet you still insist on driving. Your car will stop pogoing slightly sooner after you hit a bump, say a couple of minutes after you stop.
It can also be configured to give roll, but still requires anti-roll bars but in this case i'm just nit picking.
The packaging benefits of a transverse leaf spring is debatable, coil over springs can fit into a much smaller space. Within the footprint of the double wishbones.
There are several disadvantages that I can see, the system can't be preloaded beyond the weight of the car which is a limiting factor for ride quality and also for traction. Non-linear spring rates, lack of adjustability, which makes tuning suspension set up an absolute pain in the ass I imagine, not to mention the associated costs of getting new leaf springs. They have limited suspension travel so you'll never find this kind of system on an off roader.
All-in-all its an excellent system for use on mass produced street cars, if you want high end performance you look elsewhere
chevy-stu said:
Art0ir said:
I read an interesting blog earlier from an American talking about the decline of the muscle car. Not in terms of purity, output or numbers, but in accessibility. Regular Joe can't afford a new Camaro any more. I had no experience of the Muscle Car era obviously, but it was an interesting commentary.
I think that's the most interesting point. . These modern muscle cars are too pricey for the average younger driver to buy and run.. swerni said:
Art0ir said:
chevy-stu said:
Art0ir said:
I read an interesting blog earlier from an American talking about the decline of the muscle car. Not in terms of purity, output or numbers, but in accessibility. Regular Joe can't afford a new Camaro any more. I had no experience of the Muscle Car era obviously, but it was an interesting commentary.
I think that's the most interesting point. . These modern muscle cars are too pricey for the average younger driver to buy and run.. You can't compare this one with the cars back then
On the whole, pricing looks similar
swerni said:
Art0ir said:
Granted the base model is slightly more comparable, the original would be $16k.
But as you've both said, they are targeting a new market. The buyer is more likely to be someone who had one the first time round or some who wished they had.
Fartgalen said:
Looks 'awesome' and surely a very entertaining drive. I'm surprised there's not more power, but I guess that's why there's the ZL1.
Never mind the slightly ridiculous SC GT Mustang with it's very limited production numbers and over 1000hp. A standard GT500 makes 640hp.
The standard GT500 makes 662bhp! Even crazier! Never mind the slightly ridiculous SC GT Mustang with it's very limited production numbers and over 1000hp. A standard GT500 makes 640hp.
motoxyogi said:
tvrolet said:
Must just be the spring then. Remind me again why relying on twisting a metal rod formed into a coil is a better option than bending a carbon composite rod when the latter is lighter, doesn't rust, has had no reported failures, has reduced unsprung weight, has better natural damping, can be configured to give a degree of anti-roll and has better packaging.
Yes I am aware that the corvette uses a transverse leaf spring and yes I am referring to the spring.Your first couple points I can't argue with because I agree with them though the weight difference is small, what do you mean by better natural damping, do you mean compared to a coil spring on its own? If so then yes it does have, which is great if your shock absorber (aka damper) is trashed yet you still insist on driving. Your car will stop pogoing slightly sooner after you hit a bump, say a couple of minutes after you stop.
It can also be configured to give roll, but still requires anti-roll bars but in this case i'm just nit picking.
The packaging benefits of a transverse leaf spring is debatable, coil over springs can fit into a much smaller space. Within the footprint of the double wishbones.
There are several disadvantages that I can see, the system can't be preloaded beyond the weight of the car which is a limiting factor for ride quality and also for traction. Non-linear spring rates, lack of adjustability, which makes tuning suspension set up an absolute pain in the ass I imagine, not to mention the associated costs of getting new leaf springs. They have limited suspension travel so you'll never find this kind of system on an off roader.
All-in-all its an excellent system for use on mass produced street cars, if you want high end performance you look elsewhere
bobberz said:
Yeah, because those GT1 and GT2 Corvettes were so outclassed by their "high end" European rivals!
Or just make your way to pretty much any track day at any of the road courses and see how hard your "high end" European rivals are having to work to keep up with a bog stand Z06. Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff