RE: Pic Of The Week: Volvo 850 BTCC

[AnonSpoilSport]

dave stew said:

loudlashadjuster said:

I'm no big fan of their cars, but part of me will always hold Volvo dear for having the chutzpah to race the 850 estate. Almost seems like a "did that actually happen?" thing nowadays.

Many happy Knockhill memories watching them!

I've had two T5 estates and they are very underrated. Great cars.

Me too - well three actually. Brilliant cars. Ultra comfortable mile muncher but really fast and, torque steer aside, very good handling, you could really make the back move, slide and sway in a lovely way on corner entry a really mobile fun car. Especially the third which I had stripped out, with Nitron coil over suspension and an LSD! That one was on 200,000 miles and counting and the only problem I ever had with any was a battery failure.

[crosseyedlion]

tatters40 said:

I used to work for David Sutton motorsport (Audi Sport UK)on the awesome S1 and E2, Quattros, he managed to fix a ride with Rydell, great hearing the 2ltr N/A 5 Cylinder motor pulling 8500RPM, not quick by any means with 290BHP and 240f/lbs but swift(ish) when up to speed, Rydell was awesome, great great driver and really nice bloke, in fact all the drivers on the day were, really approachable and plenty of tales to tell.
Great series sadly now in the past.

I have it on very good authority that the volvo was pushing 340bhp...hence their dominance

[Krikkit]

Ian974 said:

em177 said:

Linky?

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=42&t=1023573&mid=97363&i=240&nmt=Engineered+rule+bending&mid=97363

I was looking for it a while back, hopefully link works, there's a pdf linked on page 13 of the thread

http://www.clubgti.com/downloads/Volvo_850_head.pd... Interesting read, and a fascinating story of how regulations can be bent by determined engineers! Shame there's no shot of the combustion chamber on that article though.

[BlimeyCharlie]

I've got an 850 T5 manual estate and love it.

Just got back from a 600 mile round-trip. Lovely and quiet, comfortable (heated seats still working) with loads of kit in the car shoved in the boot.

Only issue I have is it does not like 'normal' petrol, which is a pain when there is no choice.

Passed the MOT recently with no drama. Lovely.

First Volvo I've had and a great choice.

Happy camping.

[BOBTEE]

I loved going to see the BTCC, used to camp at Donnington and Oulton park, was there the year Burt had that shunt posted earlier. We'd survive the weekend on K cider and pot noodles and make a shrine from the empties!

Oh, if you're the guy who stood in a turd at Druids, sorry, that was my mate Dave who had to go in the dark and didn't realise that was where the circuit was!

[stephen300o]

Interesting experiment, but you'd have to have particularly rose tinted specs to call it attractive?

[RatBoy M3CSL]

crosseyedlion said:

tatters40 said:

I used to work for David Sutton motorsport (Audi Sport UK)on the awesome S1 and E2, Quattros, he managed to fix a ride with Rydell, great hearing the 2ltr N/A 5 Cylinder motor pulling 8500RPM, not quick by any means with 290BHP and 240f/lbs but swift(ish) when up to speed, Rydell was awesome, great great driver and really nice bloke, in fact all the drivers on the day were, really approachable and plenty of tales to tell.
Great series sadly now in the past.

I have it on very good authority that the volvo was pushing 340bhp...hence their dominance

+1, I worked for TWR on race engines on all the Volvo projects, have stood in the dyno cell and we got to 340bhp from those motors towards the end of the project in the S40's, pretty impressive for 1994/5/6 and an atmo 5 pot 2 litre @ 8500rpm's .. sounded lovely too.!

Edited by RatBoy M3CSL on Saturday 30th March 08:39

[Krikkit]

RatBoy M3CSL said:

crosseyedlion said:

tatters40 said:

I used to work for David Sutton motorsport (Audi Sport UK)on the awesome S1 and E2, Quattros, he managed to fix a ride with Rydell, great hearing the 2ltr N/A 5 Cylinder motor pulling 8500RPM, not quick by any means with 290BHP and 240f/lbs but swift(ish) when up to speed, Rydell was awesome, great great driver and really nice bloke, in fact all the drivers on the day were, really approachable and plenty of tales to tell.
Great series sadly now in the past.

I have it on very good authority that the volvo was pushing 340bhp...hence their dominance

+1, I worked for TWR on race engines on all the Volvo projects, have stood in the dyno cell and we got to 340bhp from those motors towards the end of the project in the S40's, pretty impressive for 1994/5/6 and an atmo 5 pot 2 litre @ 8500rpm's .. sounded lovely too.!

Edited by RatBoy M3CSL on Saturday 30th March 08:39

Long shot, but I don't suppose you have any shots of the combustion chamber design do you? I read the article in RCE, but I still can't quite picture it!

[RatBoy M3CSL]

Krikkit said:

Long shot, but I don't suppose you have any shots of the combustion chamber design do you? I read the article in RCE, but I still can't quite picture it!

I can picture the shape, but have no evidence..! we CNC machined each one out so the cc was identical, but the trouser leg machining (inlet tract) was done with the throttle body bolted up so that was a perfect match too.. really interesting project work, I was responsible for checking all the bits from machining / after the engine was out of life (10 hrs), and some folk think pistons are round.. what little they know. !

We did really well with the 850/S40, I also remember Swindon race engines who did the Vauxhall 2.0 4 pots, and Cosworth who did the 2.0 V6 couldn't get near us on power at the time.. most satisfying.. that's why we won..!

Edited by RatBoy M3CSL on Saturday 30th March 09:31

[Scooby P1]

The car that got me hooked for life on fast estate cars (now have an RS4 avant!) and put Rydell and BTCC on my radar for life.

Best Motorsport ever was watching Rydell win in that car!

[crosseyedlion]

RatBoy M3CSL said:

I can picture the shape, but have no evidence..! we CNC machined each one out so the cc was identical, but the trouser leg machining (inlet tract) was done with the throttle body bolted up so that was a perfect match too.. really interesting project work, I was responsible for checking all the bits from machining / after the engine was out of life (10 hrs), and some folk think pistons are round.. what little they know. !

We did really well with the 850/S40, I also remember Swindon race engines who did the Vauxhall 2.0 4 pots, and Cosworth who did the 2.0 V6 couldn't get near us on power at the time.. most satisfying.. that's why we won..!

Edited by RatBoy M3CSL on Saturday 30th March 09:31

Ever come into contact with mr. Goddard? Nutty professor, brilliant chap, one of my lecturers now.

[supertouring]

RatBoy M3CSL said:

Krikkit said:

Long shot, but I don't suppose you have any shots of the combustion chamber design do you? I read the article in RCE, but I still can't quite picture it!

I can picture the shape, but have no evidence..! we CNC machined each one out so the cc was identical, but the trouser leg machining (inlet tract) was done with the throttle body bolted up so that was a perfect match too.. really interesting project work, I was responsible for checking all the bits from machining / after the engine was out of life (10 hrs), and some folk think pistons are round.. what little they know. !

We did really well with the 850/S40, I also remember Swindon race engines who did the Vauxhall 2.0 4 pots, and Cosworth who did the 2.0 V6 couldn't get near us on power at the time.. most satisfying.. that's why we won..!

Edited by RatBoy M3CSL on Saturday 30th March 09:31

ProDrive were not happy with Cosworth when they took over the Mondeos contract, as their dyno could never get the power out of the engines that Cosworth quoted.

They ended up doing the engines themselves and did a much better job.

Rydell in S40 @ Bathurst 98 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVzsFJtE26w&lis...

[chevronb37]

We went to BTCC annually from about 1988 to 2000; back in those days Oulton Park had two rounds a year and decent coverage on BBC - it was like a motor racing soap opera. I really enjoyed it but as a kid I was as happy watching Soper in a BMW as I was Gerry Marshall in a lightweight DB4 - just loved racing. Was lucky enough to live 8 miles from Oulton so we were there every weekend come rain or shine.

The estates were good fun but the 850 seemed to work best with the 1995/6 aero package. Rydell was one hell of a driver and those things sounded awesome. I remember seeing every second of Kelvin Burt's accident as well. We were sat on the banking of the Knickerbrook chicane as he careered down the grass towards Cascades at frightening speed. I'm pleased to say the barrier 'knuckle' which arrested his progress is no longer there so there can be no repeat. Until poor Niall Shanahan's accident that was the worst crash I'd witnessed in person and the shock stayed with me a long time. You never forget the sound and sight of a big one...

The Supertouring days were brilliant fun, but we're still lucky today. The NGTCs make a fantastic spectacle and the variety on the grids is wonderful. I'm a major proponent of BTCC 2013, despite the sceptics who only have eyes for the mid-1990s.

[urquattro]

crosseyedlion said:

tatters40 said:

I used to work for David Sutton motorsport (Audi Sport UK)on the awesome S1 and E2, Quattros, he managed to fix a ride with Rydell, great hearing the 2ltr N/A 5 Cylinder motor pulling 8500RPM, not quick by any means with 290BHP and 240f/lbs but swift(ish) when up to speed, Rydell was awesome, great great driver and really nice bloke, in fact all the drivers on the day were, really approachable and plenty of tales to tell.
Great series sadly now in the past.

I have it on very good authority that the volvo was pushing 340bhp...hence their dominance

Dear old volvo and Rydell looked to be all of 340bhp, present stuff in series is cra..p compared to this early stuff and races, it was equally as good as F1 and sometimes better.

[AnonSpoilSport]

chevronb37 said:

We went to BTCC annually from about 1988 to 2000; back in those days Oulton Park had two rounds a year and decent coverage on BBC - it was like a motor racing soap opera. I really enjoyed it but as a kid I was as happy watching Soper in a BMW as I was Gerry Marshall in a lightweight DB4 - just loved racing. Was lucky enough to live 8 miles from Oulton so we were there every weekend come rain or shine.

The estates were good fun but the 850 seemed to work best with the 1995/6 aero package. Rydell was one hell of a driver and those things sounded awesome. I remember seeing every second of Kelvin Burt's accident as well. We were sat on the banking of the Knickerbrook chicane as he careered down the grass towards Cascades at frightening speed. I'm pleased to say the barrier 'knuckle' which arrested his progress is no longer there so there can be no repeat. Until poor Niall Shanahan's accident that was the worst crash I'd witnessed in person and the shock stayed with me a long time. You never forget the sound and sight of a big one...

The Supertouring days were brilliant fun, but we're still lucky today. The NGTCs make a fantastic spectacle and the variety on the grids is wonderful. I'm a major proponent of BTCC 2013, despite the sceptics who only have eyes for the mid-1990s.

We used to watch on TV, taped every race, went to many (always got to the Oulton, Donington and Snetterton races) and have been on track on test days with several of the Super Tourers and their predecessors. My utter favourites being the E30 M3s (and also loved it when the DTTC came over with their M3s and the trick Merc 190s. A golden age.

Amongst my favourite memories is positioning myself either at the Old Hairpin or near the top of the Craner Curves (where I've come off twice, down the grass all the way back towards the bridge, scary!) to see the M3s skip and slide into the corners and the Gp A Sierras kick the power in and powerslide out. Awesome spectacle.

I see where you are coming from with the modern series but just wish I could get the same enthusiasm I had - I struggle to make myself watch some races on TV, though still like going to the races 'live'. Don't know what it is about the newer cars but they don't grab me the same way.

Accident wise I was there right 'at site' when Burt hit the tyres in the Volvo - shocking - and just a few dozen metres away when Ratzenbeger went over the tyre wall towards the lake! Sadly, alos spent a day at a charity track event (where we loaned our car/drove paying pundits round) with Kieth Odor so was very sad when he died.

[chevronb37]

AnonSpoilSport said:

We used to watch on TV, taped every race, went to many (always got to the Oulton, Donington and Snetterton races) and have been on track on test days with several of the Super Tourers and their predecessors. My utter favourites being the E30 M3s (and also loved it when the DTTC came over with their M3s and the trick Merc 190s. A golden age.

Amongst my favourite memories is positioning myself either at the Old Hairpin or near the top of the Craner Curves (where I've come off twice, down the grass all the way back towards the bridge, scary!) to see the M3s skip and slide into the corners and the Gp A Sierras kick the power in and powerslide out. Awesome spectacle.

I see where you are coming from with the modern series but just wish I could get the same enthusiasm I had - I struggle to make myself watch some races on TV, though still like going to the races 'live'. Don't know what it is about the newer cars but they don't grab me the same way.

Accident wise I was there right 'at site' when Burt hit the tyres in the Volvo - shocking - and just a few dozen metres away when Ratzenbeger went over the tyre wall towards the lake! Sadly, alos spent a day at a charity track event (where we loaned our car/drove paying pundits round) with Kieth Odor so was very sad when he died.

There was something special about those days. I think we all knew we had the best touring car championship in the world at that time. You knew the works teams made a difference and brought the best drivers with them. Getting to see guys of the quality of Tarquini, Ravaglia, Cecotto, Winklehock, Aiello, Rydell, Biela, Radisich, etc. at their prime was fantastic.

Sadly I only saw ITC, rather than DTM, as my old man sent me to Scout camp and took himself off to the 1994 DTM round with a mate. Never forgave him for that! I remember the buzz around the ITC paddock was epic - so much money flowing from the manufacturers in those days. Such a shame we don't have any kind of Alfa Romeo race programme any longer; easy to forget that they had a lot of success with the 155 and 156 down the years.

These days we don't have such massive budgets but the quality of drivers is good and the teams are still good. The cars aren't so extreme in terms of development as the Supertourers but are their equal in terms of spectacle. Just been watching quali from Brands and the Audis and BMWs are sliding around with their RWD. Most of the NGTCs have side-exit exhausts and there are flames aplenty. I think there is less glitz than during the 1990s, but it's no less enjoyable a category on balance.

[IainW]

loudlashadjuster said:

I'm no big fan of their cars, but part of me will always hold Volvo dear for having the chutzpah to race the 850 estate. Almost seems like a "did that actually happen?" thing nowadays.

Many happy Knockhill memories watching them!

My first BTCC event in person was Knockhill 1994 and the first car I saw drive onto the track in FP1 was Jan Lammers in his 850. What a noise! I'll never forget that moment.

[MollyGTi]

Hope I'm not the only one who remembers Murray Walker's classic line:

'Just look at the Volvo go ... and room for 7 inside!!'

[AnonSpoilSport]

chevronb37 said:

There was something special about those days. I think we all knew we had the best touring car championship in the world at that time. You knew the works teams made a difference and brought the best drivers with them. Getting to see guys of the quality of Tarquini, Ravaglia, Cecotto, Winklehock, Aiello, Rydell, Biela, Radisich, etc. at their prime was fantastic.

Sadly I only saw ITC, rather than DTM, as my old man sent me to Scout camp and took himself off to the 1994 DTM round with a mate. Never forgave him for that! I remember the buzz around the ITC paddock was epic - so much money flowing from the manufacturers in those days. Such a shame we don't have any kind of Alfa Romeo race programme any longer; easy to forget that they had a lot of success with the 155 and 156 down the years.

These days we don't have such massive budgets but the quality of drivers is good and the teams are still good. The cars aren't so extreme in terms of development as the Supertourers but are their equal in terms of spectacle. Just been watching quali from Brands and the Audis and BMWs are sliding around with their RWD. Most of the NGTCs have side-exit exhausts and there are flames aplenty. I think there is less glitz than during the 1990s, but it's no less enjoyable a category on balance.

Yep, you're right - I think I just need to find time and get back into it. Obviously biased towards the BMWs having had 3 track/race M3s so love the rwd but can appreciate front drivers too. The drivers are all top notch but years back they were almost all international stars which helped pique interest.

I saw several DTTC races, back to early 90s - when one of the big technological talking points was the Mercs having 'change in the light', green to blue, paint jobs! - and through to the year when Alesi et al were in it during their annual trip to Donington. Seeing the Alfa 155s and such like with all the clever aero stuff was very interesting.

[Baryonyx]

I remember the good old days when you would regularly see Police 850
T5 estates and saloons cruising the A roads at 140mph+. They replaced the Escort Cosworth here.