RE: Pic Of The Week: Volvo 850 BTCC

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AnonSpoilSport said:

Yep, you're right - I think I just need to find time and get back into it. Obviously biased towards the BMWs having had 3 track/race M3s so love the rwd but can appreciate front drivers too. The drivers are all top notch but years back they were almost all international stars which helped pique interest.

I saw several DTTC races, back to early 90s - when one of the big technological talking points was the Mercs having 'change in the light', green to blue, paint jobs! - and through to the year when Alesi et al were in it during their annual trip to Donington. Seeing the Alfa 155s and such like with all the clever aero stuff was very interesting.

I think the current BTCC is great, but you know perhaps that you're not seeing the engineering envelope being pushed quite so far - recognising mandated chassis and subframes. The old Group A M3s were fantastic. I can just about recall them but I was only seven when Supertouring was launched in 1991 so memories aren't fantastic from that period. I think my strongest memory is actually of Alan Minshaw's Demon Tweeks liveried M3. I grew up in the same village as DT was founded so I remember the Scalextric version sitting proudly on the shelf behind the counter of the shop.

My old man bought a new E36 320i in 1993 - which was a big deal for us at the time as they were fairly exclusive things. That year was the first of the Schnitzer team in BTCC and they had Smokin' Jo and Steve Soper driving for them. I remember standing along Oulton Park's Avenue as they thundered out of Old Hall for the first time. Smokin' Jo was in the lead and I remember timing him on my Casio stopwatch. He beat the lap record on that first lap. That was such a buzz for me as a young lad - it all seemed terribly exotic.

The Class 1 touring up to 1996 were just crazy. Have been lucky to get to Donington and Brands on a number of occasions to see the new-era DTM and it's great, but somehow not quite as exciting. The old Class 1 cars were mental - supposedly more tech than post-gizmos F1 (1994 onwards) with 4WD, ABS, TC, 4WS, the lot!

[AnonSpoilSport]

Have you ever seen that Demon Tweeks M3 in the showroom? Or the Audi super tourer they've had in there? Wonderful opportunity to study it in close detail.

I had an E36 M3 built up to as close as race spec as I could get (and with no regulation blocks to worry about) that even included a genuine ex super tourer carbon rear wing! It was a wonderful car - fast but ever so forgiving. Even used it regularly on the road which was fun, if a but harsh. Should never have sold it. Mind you the 850 T5 that followed provided a good substitute fun wise.

[camel_landy]

Ian974 said:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

I was looking for it a while back, hopefully link works, there's a pdf linked on page 13 of the thread

Ta... Interesting read.

M

[chevronb37]

AnonSpoilSport said:

Have you ever seen that Demon Tweeks M3 in the showroom? Or the Audi super tourer they've had in there? Wonderful opportunity to study it in close detail.

I had an E36 M3 built up to as close as race spec as I could get (and with no regulation blocks to worry about) that even included a genuine ex super tourer carbon rear wing! It was a wonderful car - fast but ever so forgiving. Even used it regularly on the road which was fun, if a but harsh. Should never have sold it. Mind you the 850 T5 that followed provided a good substitute fun wise.

Last time I was at DT was about a year ago I think. They had Jon Minshaw's British GT 997 in there that time. It's not as if the family don't have enough awesome cars to take it in turns on display! The new premises in Wrexham are great, but I miss the days of the tyre depot on the A41 - my school bus dropped me off there so I used to ogle all the metal receiving new boots.

Your E36 sounds mega. Have you seen Gary Whittaker's? It's very, very quick and that induction noise...

[RatBoy M3CSL]

crosseyedlion said:

RatBoy M3CSL said:

I can picture the shape, but have no evidence..! we CNC machined each one out so the cc was identical, but the trouser leg machining (inlet tract) was done with the throttle body bolted up so that was a perfect match too.. really interesting project work, I was responsible for checking all the bits from machining / after the engine was out of life (10 hrs), and some folk think pistons are round.. what little they know. !

We did really well with the 850/S40, I also remember Swindon race engines who did the Vauxhall 2.0 4 pots, and Cosworth who did the 2.0 V6 couldn't get near us on power at the time.. most satisfying.. that's why we won..!

Ever come into contact with mr. Goddard? Nutty professor, brilliant chap, one of my lecturers now.

Yes.. I worked with Geoff back then, when Tom Walkinshaw bought him in from Cosworth in '94, and I had to make sure some of his madcap ideas got made to drawing and tested.. interesting bloke, with a lot of stories to tell...!

We were so far ahead at the time back then, Cosworth couldn't get more power out of a V6, than we got out of a 5 pot.. which in theory isn't possible.. much to the delight of the chief engine designer @ TWR, and the frustration of Mr Goddard..!

The BTCC was fantastic back then with 8-10 manufacturers in it..

Best part of 20 years later, and I've got my own tin top touring car now, TWR was directly responsible for this journey, strange how things pan out, but I've got Tim Harvey lined up or a days driver coaching in it with me this summer...!

If you keep working hard enough, and for long enough things come around in the end..

Edited by RatBoy M3CSL on Sunday 31st March 11:03

[AnonSpoilSport]

chevronb37 said:

Last time I was at DT was about a year ago I think. They had Jon Minshaw's British GT 997 in there that time. It's not as if the family don't have enough awesome cars to take it in turns on display! The new premises in Wrexham are great, but I miss the days of the tyre depot on the A41 - my school bus dropped me off there so I used to ogle all the metal receiving new boots.

Your E36 sounds mega. Have you seen Gary Whittaker's? It's very, very quick and that induction noise...

I used to love driving over for the day to window shop, plan and drool over the cars, the M3, Audi a Lola T70 etc. Rather lucky aren't they?

Yes, I've seen the Whittaker car and used to go to as many Kumho and BMWCC races and test days I could get to a few years back. Been on track with several of them and an ex DTTC E30 a British racer (ex sprinter iirc but can't think of his name) had bought. It was awesome. I also did a test day at Oulton where the guy who did most of the body work on my M3, Nigel Mosley, was helping out a team with a car he'd worked on and was testing/setting up the E36 car on here.

http://www.moseleymotorsport.com/cars.htm

He didn't like it! Reckoned the suspension was set up badly and it just snap oversteered everywhere... but he couldn't help getting drawn into a battle with a very powerful Mitsubishi Lancer!

[chevronb37]

AnonSpoilSport said:

I used to love driving over for the day to window shop, plan and drool over the cars, the M3, Audi a Lola T70 etc. Rather lucky aren't they?

Yes, I've seen the Whittaker car and used to go to as many Kumho and BMWCC races and test days I could get to a few years back. Been on track with several of them and an ex DTTC E30 a British racer (ex sprinter iirc but can't think of his name) had bought. It was awesome. I also did a test day at Oulton where the guy who did most of the body work on my M3, Nigel Mosley, was helping out a team with a car he'd worked on and was testing/setting up the E36 car on here.

http://www.moseleymotorsport.com/cars.htm

He didn't like it! Reckoned the suspension was set up badly and it just snap oversteered everywhere... but he couldn't help getting drawn into a battle with a very powerful Mitsubishi Lancer!

Not half! Jason's always been handy behind the wheel - I remember him in FFord when I was a nipper. He has pole for one of tomorrow's British GT rounds funnily enough...

I noticed several of the Minshaw cars for sale recently, including the T70 Spyder and most recent lightweight E-Type rep. I wonder if Jon is focusing on contemporary GTs for a while.

If sharing a track with the Kumho guys is anything like LoTRDC for us Lotus owners then you spent a lot of time being overtaken. It's amazing the difference between a quick road car and a race car driven by 'proper' driver...!

[s p a c e m a n]

That flying 850 on the facebook page looks a lot like a cavalier to me, or am I looking at the wrong photo?

[boma]

sorry, but in the spirit of quick estate cars and and even truer spirit of finding excuses to post old photos, I have to add a picture of my old Honda/Rover Civic estate going through the Donny chicane.




lets have some more pictures of estates on track

[Condi]

I vaguely remember it, being 6 at the time, but always used to try and watch BTCC. Caught some of todays race and was bored out my mind.

Edited by Condi on Sunday 31st March 21:57

[simonigrale]

I started a thread here http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... about the current BTCC series being a bit dull but most people assured me that its as exciting as the old days.

I'm not so sure.....

[AnonSpoilSport]

simonigrale said:

I started a thread here http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... about the current BTCC series being a bit dull but most people assured me that its as exciting as the old days.

I'm not so sure.....

Watched two out of three of the races yesterday, so far. Plenty of overtaking, challenges, incidents etc. and the cars do move around a bit. But I think I now know, for me, why it isn't such an exciting spectacle = the main reasons.

One is the noise; the cars just don't sound as exciting as the 9000rpm ish screamers and bang-tastic turbo Sierras from the good old days.

The second, and main one, is that despite the body kits and colour schemes the cars don't look 'right'. They seem to be as high as they are long in some cases (MG for example) so just not sleek enough and then there is the way they move around. They seem to roll up and over on their suspension and rock and tilt in a quite ungainly way rather than the slides of the older - esp. rwd - cars.

I might be being unfair, but having wondered for ages why it doesn't grab me like it did I think that's it basically.

[newdogg06]

This was the height of my BTCC interest, was a regular spectator at Brands and Thruxton. The everyday boring saloon actually seemed desirable. Then Volvo un'leashed' this on us. At least they had a laugh at themselves! Loved it.

[flyboyben]

I used to love BTCC back in the 90's, when I were a lad. The Volvo was my favourite, probably because it was a bit different, and I remember thinking it looked amazing. Looking at that photo now it just looks hilarious...box on wheels. It could almost be an April fool's joke!

[craigsg]

I used to have an 850 T5 estate from 2004 to 2007. We souped it up with updated brakes and suspension. It was easy to drive it like a fking nutter , but could also be a relaxed cruiser.

We took it on our honeymoon and our first baby had its first trip out in it.

Ah, happy days

[AnonSpoilSport]

craigsg said:

I used to have an 850 T5 estate from 2004 to 2007. We souped it up with updated brakes and suspension. It was easy to drive it like a fking nutter , but could also be a relaxed cruiser.

We took it on our honeymoon and our first baby had its first trip out in it.

Ah, happy days

What suspension dod you go with? Mine was Nitron but I can't recall the spring rates.

[shaunwalls]

Thanks for the memory. Late 1995 I had my first drive in a T5 estate around Silverstone at a fleet day. Ordered my first Olive GLT early 1996 and did 135k in it without a fault, replaced with Laser Blue phase 3 V70R in 2000 which was good but fragile. A run of 4 E46 330 M convertibles until recently when I couldn't resist combining a mint standard 250 bhp 1996 850R with a 300bhp 2006 V70R as my daily drivers. Both make me smile every time I go out, partner thinks I am mad but even though I could have my choice of most new cars on the market I am as happy as a pig in dung.

[dinkel]

newdogg06 said:

This was the height of my BTCC interest, was a regular spectator at Brands and Thruxton. The everyday boring saloon actually seemed desirable. Then Volvo un'leashed' this on us. At least they had a laugh at themselves! Loved it.

Jan Lammers.

[dinkel]

boma said:

sorry, but in the spirit of quick estate cars and and even truer spirit of finding excuses to post old photos, I have to add a picture of my old Honda/Rover Civic estate going through the Donny chicane.




lets have some more pictures of estates on track

IRS, so that should go well - together with a revvy VTEC mill.

[newdogg06]

dinkel said:

newdogg06 said:

This was the height of my BTCC interest, was a regular spectator at Brands and Thruxton. The everyday boring saloon actually seemed desirable. Then Volvo un'leashed' this on us. At least they had a laugh at themselves! Loved it.

Jan Lammers.

Yep! Love the hand on the dogs paw. There maybe another hand holding onto Mr Lammers.