Is fuel economy blown way out of proportion?
Discussion
m_cozzy said:
2007 bmw z4 31 mpg, service £400, tyres x2 £600, tax £270, depreciated £700 in 6 months.
2003 golf tdi, 55 mpg, service £80, tyres x2 £105, tax £135, depreciated minimal.
All at 400 miles a week.
Leaving me mucho money spare for more interesting/important things in life.
I cannot see why anyone needs anything more than a golf tdi, I really cant!
You do know this is pistonheads, not diesel owner weekly?2003 golf tdi, 55 mpg, service £80, tyres x2 £105, tax £135, depreciated minimal.
All at 400 miles a week.
Leaving me mucho money spare for more interesting/important things in life.
I cannot see why anyone needs anything more than a golf tdi, I really cant!
daemon said:
m_cozzy said:
2007 bmw z4 31 mpg, service £400, tyres x2 £600, tax £270, depreciated £700 in 6 months.
2003 golf tdi, 55 mpg, service £80, tyres x2 £105, tax £135, depreciated minimal.
All at 400 miles a week.
Leaving me mucho money spare for more interesting/important things in life.
I cannot see why anyone needs anything more than a golf tdi, I really cant!
You do know this is pistonheads, not diesel owner weekly?2003 golf tdi, 55 mpg, service £80, tyres x2 £105, tax £135, depreciated minimal.
All at 400 miles a week.
Leaving me mucho money spare for more interesting/important things in life.
I cannot see why anyone needs anything more than a golf tdi, I really cant!
In my case for example it would cost a damn sight more than £800 a year to have something interesting as well as a dull diesel, so I run one 'mildly interesting' car.
How much would it cost to run something interesting for you a year? I'd suggest that it would be more than £1700 which is the difference in fuel between those two.
Edited by Fastdruid on Saturday 13th April 09:21
gizlaroc said:
I think a lot of people who say MPG is blown out of proportion, probably, live out of town.
Drive into London, £25, park for 5 hours, another £42, drive home is another £25.
Just under £100 a day. If I can save £25 on fuel it make a massive difference.
That's why nobody drives to London. "Oh I've got work gear to take"Drive into London, £25, park for 5 hours, another £42, drive home is another £25.
Just under £100 a day. If I can save £25 on fuel it make a massive difference.
I've been on the tube with a colleage and £40k worth of equipment, it is possible and a lot less s
t than driving.Surely another thing many people seem to not be taking into account is if it is just them in the car or not. For example, my E36 318ti (1.9) used to get 40+ on a run. However, that would diminish quite quickly if I was carrying people + luggage, and 90+ started to get quite juicy Whereas my 328i probably does 37 at best on the motorway but even with a couple of adults + luggage doesn't really waver from that figure. When cruising in Europe at 100 or so got even better figures!
I want to get from A to B as cheaply as possible 99% of the time. For that I want a car which (overall) is exceptionally cheap. Fuel economy is a pretty big part of that, but servicing, insurance and depreciation is all relevant too.
For the other 1% I have a bike. No car can/will replace that so the argument about having one vehicle is null and void unless you can find me a bike with radio, air con, able to carry passengers as well as a very large tool box and I can ride wearing a suit.
For the other 1% I have a bike. No car can/will replace that so the argument about having one vehicle is null and void unless you can find me a bike with radio, air con, able to carry passengers as well as a very large tool box and I can ride wearing a suit.
daemon said:
m_cozzy said:
2007 bmw z4 31 mpg, service £400, tyres x2 £600, tax £270, depreciated £700 in 6 months.
2003 golf tdi, 55 mpg, service £80, tyres x2 £105, tax £135, depreciated minimal.
All at 400 miles a week.
Leaving me mucho money spare for more interesting/important things in life.
I cannot see why anyone needs anything more than a golf tdi, I really cant!
You do know this is pistonheads, not diesel owner weekly?2003 golf tdi, 55 mpg, service £80, tyres x2 £105, tax £135, depreciated minimal.
All at 400 miles a week.
Leaving me mucho money spare for more interesting/important things in life.
I cannot see why anyone needs anything more than a golf tdi, I really cant!
The cars I used to drive when I had a bit of spare cash cost me about £1000 a year to run (incl insurance and tax) lost about the same in depreciation. I now pickup cheap 'dogvans' and spend half-as-much or less which means even on the limited miles I do, diesel is more than half my budget so MPG is a big factor in choosing each shed.
At least it's driven down prices on nice old kit for those who don't care. I was offered a Passat VR6 4x4 saloon today - 140,000, serviced, MOTed but needed tax - £350! If it had been an estate I'd be frantically telling myself no but as it was I just couldn't consider it (nowhere for the dogs!)
ADM06 said:
That's why nobody drives to London.
If you got off the tube and looked around you'd notice that fking loads of people drive to London. Otherwise they wouldn't need to keep widening the M1 and I'd have a far more relaxing drive in. And as mentioned, yes, it's possible, but it often costs a LOT more to catch the train.
Which is why plenty of people drive to London.
pthelazyjourno said:
If you got off the tube and looked around you'd notice that fking loads of people drive to London. Otherwise they wouldn't need to keep widening the M1 and I'd have a far more relaxing drive in.
And as mentioned, yes, it's possible, but it often costs a LOT more to catch the train.
Which is why plenty of people drive to London.
I know people drive to London, it's just a terrible idea, I hate it and I'd much rather drive twice the distance to Leeds or something. The thing to do is drive to the top of zone 1 and get the tube. You will save money and years of your life from the stress of that appalling city.king loads of people drive to London. Otherwise they wouldn't need to keep widening the M1 and I'd have a far more relaxing drive in. And as mentioned, yes, it's possible, but it often costs a LOT more to catch the train.
Which is why plenty of people drive to London.
m_cozzy said:
2007 bmw z4 31 mpg, service £400, tyres x2 £600, tax £270, depreciated £700 in 6 months.
2003 golf tdi, 55 mpg, service £80, tyres x2 £105, tax £135, depreciated minimal.
All at 400 miles a week.
Leaving me mucho money spare for more interesting/important things in life.
I cannot see why anyone needs anything more than a golf tdi, I really cant!
Not really a fair example though..... 2003 golf tdi, 55 mpg, service £80, tyres x2 £105, tax £135, depreciated minimal.
All at 400 miles a week.
Leaving me mucho money spare for more interesting/important things in life.
I cannot see why anyone needs anything more than a golf tdi, I really cant!
If you done it the other way.
07 tdi golf vs an older 330i or similar then the older car would be cheaper to run overall... Maybe not cheaper day to day
MPG only really makes a difference if your buying a new car that gets better MPG that cost about the same or less. If your going from a 10 year old car and paying £5-10K + for a newer car because it gets x amount of MPG more then your old car that's false economy IMO. Your older car will workout cheaper to run especially if you change your car every 1-3 years.
But just means that bigger engined cars are going to get cheaper and cheaper
ADM06 said:
I know people drive to London, it's just a terrible idea, I hate it and I'd much rather drive twice the distance to Leeds or something. The thing to do is drive to the top of zone 1 and get the tube. You will save money and years of your life from the stress of that appalling city.
Sorry - my post looked rather harsh, I didn't intend it to be rude!! 9/10 I drive to Stanmore and get the tube from there. That's equally irritating though; it takes me just over an hour to drive 60 miles to just outside London, and then almost the same again to travel 11 miles on the tube. It does save me £20 on parking though.
Compromise really, none is ideal:
Train arriving in London before 9:30am - £101, 60min train journey, 60mins to/from station all in from both ends, 40mins waiting for train
Car into Paddington - £30 in petrol, 140 minute journey, £25 parking, £6ish tube
Car into Stanmore - £20 in petrol, 80 minute journey, £5 parking, £11 tube, 40-60 minute tube ride
Not a lot of difference between parking in London and parking in Stanmore in terms of time - but that's probably because of the hours I travel at.
Train is a lot more convenient for working on the move, but it's s
t for getting home again (lingering round for trains, cramped, full and end up standing up), and it's double the price. Personally I quite enjoy driving round London, but I lived there for a fair few years. You certainly need a specific sort of mindset (not flustered by anything, especially t
tty driving or poor road manners), and I don't tend to get wound up when driving (you probably wouldn't have guessed that from my previous abrupt message - apologies again for that!!). That said, it's no fun driving London during rush hour, you can just feel the life of your clutch ticking down!! Until prices come down for public transport, or price of petrol goes up so much (double) I'll be continuing to drive.
Edited by pthelazyjourno on Sunday 14th April 21:24
pthelazyjourno said:
ADM06 said:
That's why nobody drives to London.
And as mentioned, yes, it's possible, but it often costs a LOT more to catch the train. bp1000 said:
I run a v8 XFR and wife a rav4 diesel
I get 19-21mpg average and she gets 35mpg. This never really changes and both are a very respectable mix of dual carriageway, a-road and town. What i would call a proper average.
I get a lot of comments about running a v8, all centred around, "oh i bet that costs a lot in fuel"... well no, not really.
On 5k miles it is an extra £43 a month compared to the rav4. At 10k miles assuming longer journeys its an extra £64 a month or £204 in total for monthly fuel on the v8. Less than a sky subscription and about what some people spend on wine and alcohol per month. (the increase over the diesel that is, not the full amount)
If you take this increase in cost outside of motoring it seems to become a little more justifiable. Of course if you did high mileage or you had a strict budget you need to get as economical as possible.
But it seems to me mpg is blown way out of proportion and in peoples heads v8's seem to be prohibitively expensive to fuel. My 335d did 36mpg average and i've never driven a car that would do more than about 42mpg true mixed average. If you sit on the m-way all day a VAG diesel is going to give you nearer to 50mpg and your mileage probably does require you have a sensible car for the job.
It just amused me to hear a mum comment on my fuel usage when she was driving a 1.8 tonne diesel people carrier that doesn't get much more than 32mpg.
Depreciation eclipses the extra cost in fuel by quite some margin.
Hi, I totally agree with the above. My S5 does about 19mpg combined. Mostly town driving though. If I was going to look at something half decent what would I actually get? 30mpg in petrol? The wife had a Ford Focus 1.6 and that did approx 33mpg. I only do 5k a year... the S5 is worth the extra £500 in fuel a year.I get 19-21mpg average and she gets 35mpg. This never really changes and both are a very respectable mix of dual carriageway, a-road and town. What i would call a proper average.
I get a lot of comments about running a v8, all centred around, "oh i bet that costs a lot in fuel"... well no, not really.
On 5k miles it is an extra £43 a month compared to the rav4. At 10k miles assuming longer journeys its an extra £64 a month or £204 in total for monthly fuel on the v8. Less than a sky subscription and about what some people spend on wine and alcohol per month. (the increase over the diesel that is, not the full amount)
If you take this increase in cost outside of motoring it seems to become a little more justifiable. Of course if you did high mileage or you had a strict budget you need to get as economical as possible.
But it seems to me mpg is blown way out of proportion and in peoples heads v8's seem to be prohibitively expensive to fuel. My 335d did 36mpg average and i've never driven a car that would do more than about 42mpg true mixed average. If you sit on the m-way all day a VAG diesel is going to give you nearer to 50mpg and your mileage probably does require you have a sensible car for the job.
It just amused me to hear a mum comment on my fuel usage when she was driving a 1.8 tonne diesel people carrier that doesn't get much more than 32mpg.
Depreciation eclipses the extra cost in fuel by quite some margin.
The wife has a prius now and averages 54mpg. That's a money saver for sure. She saves huge amounts of money on her car over the Focus. however she does 18k pa.
Lostprophet said:
I totally agree with the above.
I only do 5k a year...
What do you and the OP have in common? You both do 5k miles a year.I only do 5k a year...
It's great that the pair of you can both afford to run nice cars that do 20mpg or less, but surely you appreciate that most people do more miles than this, and therefore fuel economy is more important to others than it is to you?
I currently run an Audi B7 S4 and average around 23 / 24mpg in my day to day driving.
However 3 weeks ago, we drove, in tandem with our friends who have a Vauxhall Insignia diesel, to the Alps.
Sitting at 100mph on the Autoroute, our, pretty fully laden, car was returning 21.3mpg, whereas the Insignia was returning around 45mpg. The return trip, some 1,500 miles, took us in the region of 6 full tanks of petrol, whereas the Insignia did the same journey on 2 full tanks of diesel. They were able to cruise at the same speed as us with no trouble and the only time you really noticed grunt of the Audi was when accelerating back to speed after being stuck behind a truck.
However 3 weeks ago, we drove, in tandem with our friends who have a Vauxhall Insignia diesel, to the Alps.
Sitting at 100mph on the Autoroute, our, pretty fully laden, car was returning 21.3mpg, whereas the Insignia was returning around 45mpg. The return trip, some 1,500 miles, took us in the region of 6 full tanks of petrol, whereas the Insignia did the same journey on 2 full tanks of diesel. They were able to cruise at the same speed as us with no trouble and the only time you really noticed grunt of the Audi was when accelerating back to speed after being stuck behind a truck.
excel monkey said:
Lostprophet said:
I totally agree with the above.
I only do 5k a year...
What do you and the OP have in common? You both do 5k miles a year.I only do 5k a year...
It's great that the pair of you can both afford to run nice cars that do 20mpg or less, but surely you appreciate that most people do more miles than this, and therefore fuel economy is more important to others than it is to you?
Most of the time I use the Prius anyway, Ikea runs, shopping market trips etc etc. The S5 is for family outings, going for a meal, visiting friends and just for me to use when the Prius is busy.
Fuel in the UK is too expensive. It only makes sense to run 20mpg cars if you do low miles. If I did 20k a year it would costs an extra £2k pa to run the S5 over a 34mpg car that the OP speaks about. Thats a serious amount of cash. With depreciation, annual costs and then fuel it would be a cost too far for me to stomach.
Edited by Lostprophet on Tuesday 23 April 14:44
schmalex said:
I currently run an Audi B7 S4 and average around 23 / 24mpg in my day to day driving.
However 3 weeks ago, we drove, in tandem with our friends who have a Vauxhall Insignia diesel, to the Alps.
Sitting at 100mph on the Autoroute, our, pretty fully laden, car was returning 21.3mpg, whereas the Insignia was returning around 45mpg. The return trip, some 1,500 miles, took us in the region of 6 full tanks of petrol, whereas the Insignia did the same journey on 2 full tanks of diesel. They were able to cruise at the same speed as us with no trouble and the only time you really noticed grunt of the Audi was when accelerating back to speed after being stuck behind a truck.
I agree, the Vauxhall makes a lot of sense if you work in the alps and live in the UK However 3 weeks ago, we drove, in tandem with our friends who have a Vauxhall Insignia diesel, to the Alps.
Sitting at 100mph on the Autoroute, our, pretty fully laden, car was returning 21.3mpg, whereas the Insignia was returning around 45mpg. The return trip, some 1,500 miles, took us in the region of 6 full tanks of petrol, whereas the Insignia did the same journey on 2 full tanks of diesel. They were able to cruise at the same speed as us with no trouble and the only time you really noticed grunt of the Audi was when accelerating back to speed after being stuck behind a truck.
For all other times the S4 all the way!Point taken though...
when are you trading your S4 in for the Insignia?
Lostprophet said:
I agree, the Vauxhall makes a lot of sense if you work in the alps and live in the UK For all other times the S4 all the way!
Point taken though...
when are you trading your S4 in for the Insignia?
I traded the S4 for a BMW 630 at the weekend as a reasonable half way house between performance, economy and long distance ability. Delighted to be shot of the Audi to be honest, as it is a deeply disappointing car in pretty much every way. Mainly because it has underwhelming performance for what it pretends to be, the economy is shocking given the performance it has and its long distance ability is non-existent (to be fair, this is a manual cabriolet, which represents pretty much the worst combination of gearbox and refinement available to an S4).For all other times the S4 all the way!Point taken though...
when are you trading your S4 in for the Insignia?
Owned an impreza wrx (standard bugeye wagon) a few years ago. It was quick...ish, but i could never square the 26-30 mpg with the fairly unimpressive performance. A VAG PD diesel was punchier and with a better cabin, but i liked the impreza's feeling of driving something a bit special. It was definitely old-school though.
Traded the scoob in for a Leon TDI, which was much slower (obv), but even that only did 42-45 mpg in similar driving.
The scoob was traded for £2.5k against the Leon for £8.5k. Fast forward 2 years and the Leon was traded in for £4.5k with 40k miles added to it. The scoob would be worth about £2.5k still...
Traded the scoob in for a Leon TDI, which was much slower (obv), but even that only did 42-45 mpg in similar driving.
The scoob was traded for £2.5k against the Leon for £8.5k. Fast forward 2 years and the Leon was traded in for £4.5k with 40k miles added to it. The scoob would be worth about £2.5k still...
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff