Factory ECU mapping fail
Discussion
It's probably been discussed more than the current F1 tyre situation, however it still baffles me as to why car manufactures don't put out their cars with an ECU map that aftermarket kits provide.
My S3 is booked in tomorrow for a full service, haldex service, MOT and most importantly a REVO stage 1 remap. It's booked in with a very reputable VAG specialist who know their stuff, Bristol based. I phoned them up as a new customer and asked for the works, the guy on the phone said you will not regret the remap it transforms the S3 and because of all the work I'm having done they'll knock 10% off the price. Nice.
So here goes, my first experience in a car with a provisional license and insured on my dad's car; himself a keen biker, petrol-head, motorist, was a 2001 Peugeot 206 HDi 90Hp. A workhouse for trawling through muddy, gravely, grassy lanes in the middle of nowhere, so battering it around didn't matter. A great all rounder that didn't cost much to run, looked half decent and went reasonably well. He got the old 206 remapped at 20k miles to 120hp with a hefty amount of torque increase circa 200lb/ft. Night and day difference over a standard car and it ran all the way to over 120k miles with ease until he decided to take it for swim into a 5ft flooded road and bent the con-rods!
My point being I'm expecting an increase from 225Hp/210lb/ft to around 265Hp/265lb/ft for the cost of a Sky/virgin/BT subscription for a year! Why don't the manufactures tune their cars accordingly? Ford have Montune who offer a remap + bits for a +£1k fee on the Mk2 ST focus whilst offering a warranty. So why don't Ford do it from standard?
What gives? (apart from con-rods in a high compression diesel in a 5ft puddle!)
My S3 is booked in tomorrow for a full service, haldex service, MOT and most importantly a REVO stage 1 remap. It's booked in with a very reputable VAG specialist who know their stuff, Bristol based. I phoned them up as a new customer and asked for the works, the guy on the phone said you will not regret the remap it transforms the S3 and because of all the work I'm having done they'll knock 10% off the price. Nice.
So here goes, my first experience in a car with a provisional license and insured on my dad's car; himself a keen biker, petrol-head, motorist, was a 2001 Peugeot 206 HDi 90Hp. A workhouse for trawling through muddy, gravely, grassy lanes in the middle of nowhere, so battering it around didn't matter. A great all rounder that didn't cost much to run, looked half decent and went reasonably well. He got the old 206 remapped at 20k miles to 120hp with a hefty amount of torque increase circa 200lb/ft. Night and day difference over a standard car and it ran all the way to over 120k miles with ease until he decided to take it for swim into a 5ft flooded road and bent the con-rods!
My point being I'm expecting an increase from 225Hp/210lb/ft to around 265Hp/265lb/ft for the cost of a Sky/virgin/BT subscription for a year! Why don't the manufactures tune their cars accordingly? Ford have Montune who offer a remap + bits for a +£1k fee on the Mk2 ST focus whilst offering a warranty. So why don't Ford do it from standard?
What gives? (apart from con-rods in a high compression diesel in a 5ft puddle!)
The remapper doesn't care about a fraction of the things the manufacturer has to.
NVH, emissions, longevity, part throttle response are just a few things that they care about that the mapper doesn't.
Don't also forget that it may simply come down to cost, while the engine *may* be able to make the power the gearbox/clutch may be rated far lower. Its cheaper just to restrict power. Of course they're likely to be able to take it (the rating is likely conservative) but they'll wear out faster or run a higher chance of breaking.
NVH, emissions, longevity, part throttle response are just a few things that they care about that the mapper doesn't.
Don't also forget that it may simply come down to cost, while the engine *may* be able to make the power the gearbox/clutch may be rated far lower. Its cheaper just to restrict power. Of course they're likely to be able to take it (the rating is likely conservative) but they'll wear out faster or run a higher chance of breaking.
anarki said:
SpeckledJim said:
CO2, long-term reliability, fuel economy, extreme hot/cold environment validity.
Plenty of remaps offer better MPG, are you suggesting the government don't want this? (rhetorical question)Or for insurance reasons, MG6 is point here. Possibly fastest accelerating car in it's class but low top speed and insurance group. Apparently in some markets they offer a factory remap to 180hp.
Bit like 125cc bikes. 12hp ish restricted, many can more than double with nothing more than plugging a connector in for some Italian manufacturers or removing a washer for some jap ones.
Surprised so few have cottoned on to what MG are doing with the 6. Pretty quick after 5 minutes with a laptop and cable.
If Ford / Vaux / VAG did the same thing with a cheapish low insurance group car..........
Bit like 125cc bikes. 12hp ish restricted, many can more than double with nothing more than plugging a connector in for some Italian manufacturers or removing a washer for some jap ones.
Surprised so few have cottoned on to what MG are doing with the 6. Pretty quick after 5 minutes with a laptop and cable.
If Ford / Vaux / VAG did the same thing with a cheapish low insurance group car..........
Yup, I was on the development team for a high performance engine that's in current production.
The first prototype engines on the dynos exceeded the torque rating of the gearbox that was to be used with it by 20%. At the time, the gearbox supplier didn't offer any higher-rated gearboxes, nor would they entertain any warranty if we ran them harder than the rated maximum, even if only a little.
The end result was that the engine was electronically strangled to preserve the rest of the drive train. It's probably the main reason why this happens.
The first prototype engines on the dynos exceeded the torque rating of the gearbox that was to be used with it by 20%. At the time, the gearbox supplier didn't offer any higher-rated gearboxes, nor would they entertain any warranty if we ran them harder than the rated maximum, even if only a little.
The end result was that the engine was electronically strangled to preserve the rest of the drive train. It's probably the main reason why this happens.
Accelerated wear on components alone (look at virtually any Seat which has had an aggressive remap and see how long things like the clutch last) would mean that a number of parts of the car would have to be redesigned, putting the price up. Not to mention the increased emissions, fuel consumption, and quite often silly things that enthusiasts like but average motorists don't - like the ROARING boost noise you get sometimes get from a remapped turbo engine. And the ability to run the car even with the crappest 95RON fuel. Which an aggressive map isn't going to like much.
I know several folks who've had cars remapped - the results were very impressive but they suffered various mechanical maladies (clutch slip on a car with 31k on the clock, injectors obliterated, etc).
And this isn't a slating for remapping - my car is remapped
But just that there are a number of glaringly obvious reasons why the cars aren't coming out of the factory dialled up to their maximum.
I know several folks who've had cars remapped - the results were very impressive but they suffered various mechanical maladies (clutch slip on a car with 31k on the clock, injectors obliterated, etc).
And this isn't a slating for remapping - my car is remapped
But just that there are a number of glaringly obvious reasons why the cars aren't coming out of the factory dialled up to their maximum. Edited by Chicane-UK on Tuesday 14th May 22:04
Most of the points are well covered already. As someone who has worked in the industry reverse engineering factory ECUs for chip tuning, I have a lot of respect for OEM mapping and protection/emissions strategies and a healthy disrespect for the ability of many chip tuning developers and tuners in the industry who alter things they don't understand and just change maps because a map they downloaded from an other tuner had it altered.
Unlike the after market tuners, manufacturers have to meet whatever legislation is in force at the time.
It would be interesting to see if car that had been re-mapped would still pass the relevant emissions legislation that it was required to prior to registration.
Manufacturers are probably always able to get more power/better economy/more torque, but being able to either meet say, Euro5 is a different matter.
It would be interesting to see if car that had been re-mapped would still pass the relevant emissions legislation that it was required to prior to registration.
Manufacturers are probably always able to get more power/better economy/more torque, but being able to either meet say, Euro5 is a different matter.
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