Remaking old cars ?

Author
Discussion

J4CKO

Original Poster:

41,622 posts

201 months

Sunday 19th May 2013
quotequote all
Adidas remake old trainers, so why not old cars, ok, I know that there are all soprts of regulations but seeing the price old Escort shells go for, surely it must be remaking shells, is it possible, how much would people pay for a brand new Escort, 2 door Sierra, E30 M3, Escort Cosworth Integrale, Fiat 500, Capri, Air Cooled 911 shell ?

They do it with MGB's and they are worth a lot less than some of the other stuff I have mentioned. I appreciate the original manufacturers cant make then due to safety regulations but is there any reason why this cant be done, once you have a shell, mechanicals are fairly easy.

em177

3,131 posts

165 months

Sunday 19th May 2013
quotequote all
J4CKO said:
Adidas remake old trainers, so why not old cars, ok, I know that there are all soprts of regulations but seeing the price old Escort shells go for, surely it must be remaking shells, is it possible, how much would people pay for a brand new Escort, 2 door Sierra, E30 M3, Escort Cosworth Integrale, Fiat 500, Capri, Air Cooled 911 shell ?

They do it with MGB's and they are worth a lot less than some of the other stuff I have mentioned. I appreciate the original manufacturers cant make then due to safety regulations but is there any reason why this cant be done, once you have a shell, mechanicals are fairly easy.
Anything is possible if you have the money. Loads of companies out there doing similar things in very tiny numbers.

itz_baseline

821 posts

222 months

Sunday 19th May 2013
quotequote all
I suspect it's all down to stricker safety regulations etc, but completely agree. If I was after a new 911 I would take a 993 turbo over a 997 or 991 turbo all day.

premio

1,020 posts

165 months

Sunday 19th May 2013
quotequote all
I think beetles and minis are still made, but I guess people who buy one either want an original or they want a more modern car, hence the very low numbers of these seen on the road. Also I'm not sure how the branding would work if the manufacturer won't endorse it?

rohrl

8,740 posts

146 months

Sunday 19th May 2013
quotequote all
Nissan did it in the US a few years ago. They bought a load of secondhand 240Zs had them restored and sold them.

Edit - It was 1998, about the time the 350Z was launched.

Edited by rohrl on Sunday 19th May 20:46

SystemParanoia

14,343 posts

199 months

Sunday 19th May 2013
quotequote all
I think the manufacturer would have to give their explicit permission, in writing, signed in blood and wrapped in a big fat wad of cash.

...just for starters.


I dont know how British motor heritage avoided the legal dogs tho with the mini and mg shells they do

Ozzie Osmond

21,189 posts

247 months

Sunday 19th May 2013
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Eric Clapton had this Ferrari 458 built to look like a classic 328 at considerable cost,


ajprice

27,507 posts

197 months

Sunday 19th May 2013
quotequote all
Ozzie Osmond said:
Eric Clapton had this Ferrari 458 built to look like a classic 328 at considerable cost,

512BB, but yeah it's still a nice thing.


This modern Escort Mk1 works for me, base it on something small and RWD (MX5?)


Edited by ajprice on Sunday 19th May 21:02

SystemParanoia

14,343 posts

199 months

Sunday 19th May 2013
quotequote all
So besides British motor heritage

http://www.bmh-ltd.com/bodyshells2.htm

any links to other companies that make old shells?

V8RX7

26,894 posts

264 months

Sunday 19th May 2013
quotequote all
It's the cost of the tooling.

I know a guy who used to make aftermarket body panels (well, paid someone in India to make them)

He'd only do the most common panels for the most common cars (Escort / Sierra front wings etc) because it cost so much.


Perd Hapley

1,750 posts

174 months

Sunday 19th May 2013
quotequote all
SystemParanoia said:
I think the manufacturer would have to give their explicit permission, in writing, signed in blood and wrapped in a big fat wad of cash.

...just for starters.


I dont know how British motor heritage avoided the legal dogs tho with the mini and mg shells they do
They were founded as part of British Leyland. BMW sold BMH off when they owned Rover, presumably all the rights issues were very well clarified at that point.

poing

8,743 posts

201 months

Sunday 19th May 2013
quotequote all
ajprice said:
This modern Escort Mk1 works for me, base it on something small and RWD (MX5?)
That would be amazing, MX5 would be a nice cheap choice for the base or if you want something more modern then the new Toyota GT86 would be a good choice.

Mr2Mike

20,143 posts

256 months

Sunday 19th May 2013
quotequote all
SystemParanoia said:
I dont know how British motor heritage avoided the legal dogs tho with the mini and mg shells they do
What legal dogs?

SystemParanoia

14,343 posts

199 months

Sunday 19th May 2013
quotequote all
Mr2Mike said:
SystemParanoia said:
I dont know how British motor heritage avoided the legal dogs tho with the mini and mg shells they do
What legal dogs?
explained in a post above.. so its all good.

but i would expect a visit from angry men in suits if i started making 100% accurate f458 bodyshells and mp412c shells that accept all the original components

J4CKO

Original Poster:

41,622 posts

201 months

Sunday 19th May 2013
quotequote all
I am thinking more someone making the shells and leaving it upto the individual to turn them into a car, surely that avoids any legislation ?

Lowtimer

4,286 posts

169 months

Sunday 19th May 2013
quotequote all
No it doesn't. You'd still be in breach of the intellectual property rights of the original designer, or whoever owns those rights.

In most cases if a designer is employed by a company to do the design work, the rights belong to his employer, in this case Ford, unless or until Ford sells or otherwise transfers those rights to another party, or possibly licenses someone else to produce the item in question.

If you were to make your own, for your own use, no-one from Ford is going to either notice or care even if they do notice, providing it didn't give them a bad name by falling to pieces or killing someone. Especially if you started with the legal identity of a complete car, and kept it registered at that complete car, i.e. a restoration rather than a "new" car.

If you turn such an enterprise into a business by making new entire Escort shells for sale, then, yes, as soon as they find out they will want to know why you think you can rip off their design work. If you go and ask them nicely in advance, it is possible that they would licence the design and even the tooling if they have any of it left. But they are free to do so, or not, as they like, and they can charge you anything they want for the rights by way of up-front fee or royalty.

Edited by Lowtimer on Sunday 19th May 21:58

J4CKO

Original Poster:

41,622 posts

201 months

Sunday 19th May 2013
quotequote all
How long is the IP on a car shell ?

premio

1,020 posts

165 months

Sunday 19th May 2013
quotequote all
J4CKO said:
How long is the IP on a car shell ?
Copyright is normally 70 years but then the copyright for the design can be sold again, and almost always will be. It's unlikely any company would leave a design unsold, or at least it would be picked up pretty quickly by another company.

J4CKO

Original Poster:

41,622 posts

201 months

Sunday 19th May 2013
quotequote all
Wonder how different it would need to be, a MK1 Escort shell with a few differences as per the above, would Ford bother chasing it up ?

31mph

1,308 posts

136 months

Sunday 19th May 2013
quotequote all
em177 said:
Anything is possible if you have the money. Loads of companies out there doing similar things in very tiny numbers.
True, such as the eagle speedster