British Leyland -They were crap and they knew they were.

[shoestring7]

SteveinTurkey said:

shoestring7 said:

SteveinTurkey said:

heebeegeetee said:

MGJohn said:

"Hooligan" friend's Torque steer.

Overdrive any car, even a lowly Metro and you can induce 'torque steer' of some type under certain conditions. Driving simply by planting the right foot lacks finesse in any car and if you know the limitations, they all have them, you can drive it to best advantage. All in my opinion of course..

There again, that neglected car with it's steering alignment all a'cock could be the cause of the problem.

My understanding of these was, if you did try to beat a Golf Gti (or whatever) away from the lights, a Monty Turbo would change lanes.

You are right that you can control this sort of thing with your right foot, but meantime your rival has left you for dead.

I have driven many 100's of cars in my time and only one exhibited "torque steer". This car was some sort of performance Mitsubishi that I was test driving back in the early 80's. I cannot remember what the car was but if you stepped on the gas it pulled violently to the right, to the point of being dangerous. I pointed this out to the salesman who was on board and he told me that there was nothing the matter with the car!! I drove it back to the showroom and walked away. It was obvious to me that there was a problem like a broken driveshaft or diferential.

You can find it in pretty much every powerful fwd car, in most you'll feel the steering weight up under power, and hitting a bump asymmetrically will cause some snatch.

SS7

There is a world of difference between what you describe and what I was describing. I have been driving powerful cars for more than 30 years and I can not remember thinking that a particular car had "torque-steer", apart from the one I test drove above.

'Torque steer' is the influence of the engine's torque on steering. It doesn't mean the car has to head for a hedge.

SS7

[andyps]

M3DGE said:

drivin_me_nuts said:

Out of curiosity what was the defining car of the BL era, assuming there was one: one that summaries all that is best of any era.

That's really a new thread! And I suppose you need to define the BL era - if we agree 70s, 80s and 90s as separate eras and all under Nationalised control, IMO:-

70s - Best - Rover SDi, could have been truly great with a tad more investment

Worst - I can't get past the Marina; although I truly hated my Dad's 76 Allegro it was built OK

80s - Best - Metro, hands down. A groundbreaking car that pretty much invented the Supermini. Only rebadging and recycling made it a bad car years later.

Worst - Morris Ital. So, that's another viote for the Marina, then. Could be worse...on the continent you could buy one made in Portugal with a 37hp (yes, really) diesel engine..

90s - Best - I would vote Rover 600. Has also aged really well, unlike many other cars of this era, and carried great equipment levels mated to good build quality.

Worst - Ignoring the Metro (see above) or the even more dated Mini, which were good cars simply past their sell-by, I don't think there were any real shockers?

I would agree with you on all of those, although for the 90s you could say the 75 for the best as it was a great car, but does come from a different era to the others. Potentially the MGf is in there too as it became the best selling sports car in the UK, the first time a product from what was once BL led the class for a few years.

[DanglerDoo]

I'm sure it was interesting but after seeing a Princess, Maxi and the Allegro I slipped into a comma.

Why were they so fecking dreary?

[Baz Tench]

DanglerDoo said:

I'm sure it was interesting but after seeing a Princess, Maxi and the Allegro I slipped into a comma.

Why were they so fecking dreary?

Ooh, I thought you meant one of these for a minute...




As you were....

Edited by Baz Tench on Wednesday 26th June 19:00

[andyps]

DanglerDoo said:

I'm sure it was interesting but after seeing a Princess, Maxi and the Allegro I slipped into a comma.

Why were they so fecking dreary?

Compared with what?

[MGJohn]

Baz Tench said:

DanglerDoo said:

I'm sure it was interesting but after seeing a Princess, Maxi and the Allegro I slipped into a comma.

Why were they so fecking dreary?

Ooh, I thought you meant one of these for a minute...




As you were....

...

Toured much of the Continent in one of those "Coma" Campers. Five big blokes and all their gear loaded. Despite low performance figures, the kilometers passed by and before you knew it, even at those relatively low speeds it was surprising the distances covered in relatively short time. Mind you, continental traffic densities 30-40 years ago were much less stressful than today. Some of the Mountain Passes we passed were something else.

[SteveinTurkey]

andyps said:

M3DGE said:

drivin_me_nuts said:

Out of curiosity what was the defining car of the BL era, assuming there was one: one that summaries all that is best of any era.

That's really a new thread! And I suppose you need to define the BL era - if we agree 70s, 80s and 90s as separate eras and all under Nationalised control, IMO:-

70s - Best - Rover SDi, could have been truly great with a tad more investment

Worst - I can't get past the Marina; although I truly hated my Dad's 76 Allegro it was built OK

80s - Best - Metro, hands down. A groundbreaking car that pretty much invented the Supermini. Only rebadging and recycling made it a bad car years later.

Worst - Morris Ital. So, that's another viote for the Marina, then. Could be worse...on the continent you could buy one made in Portugal with a 37hp (yes, really) diesel engine..

90s - Best - I would vote Rover 600. Has also aged really well, unlike many other cars of this era, and carried great equipment levels mated to good build quality.

Worst - Ignoring the Metro (see above) or the even more dated Mini, which were good cars simply past their sell-by, I don't think there were any real shockers?

I would agree with you on all of those, although for the 90s you could say the 75 for the best as it was a great car, but does come from a different era to the others. Potentially the MGf is in there too as it became the best selling sports car in the UK, the first time a product from what was once BL led the class for a few years.

The Metro a Supermini - what". The Metro could have been a good car but it was severely compromised by its wheezing A-Series engine designed in the 1930s. Even the Metro Turbo wasn't any good. But the 1300 HL I owned for a while did have a great braking system though.

The 75 should have been a car for the 80s but when it arrived other manufacturers had already got the market covered.

I think that you may be mistaking the MGF sales figures with the Mazda MX5 as the best selling sports car in the UK!

[bgunn]

A series was designed in 1951-52..

MGF sold very well in the early years, as the production figures show:

http://www.aronline.co.uk/blogs/facts-and-figures/...

Considering it was cobbled together from bits of Metro, it made good money for Rover.

[SystemParanoia]

I'd love to fit a flywheel KERs system into the front of an 'F'

almost no fabrication would be needed, as both front and rear subframes are just from the front of a metro

[bgunn]

SystemParanoia said:

I'd love to fit a flywheel KERs system into the front of an 'F'

almost no fabrication would be needed, as both front and rear subframes are just from the front of a metro

Or this: http://www.mgtf.be/MD_MGTF_200HPD_01.html

[SystemParanoia]

bgunn said:

SystemParanoia said:

I'd love to fit a flywheel KERs system into the front of an 'F'

almost no fabrication would be needed, as both front and rear subframes are just from the front of a metro

Or this: http://www.mgtf.be/MD_MGTF_200HPD_01.html

my work here is done lol

[andyps]

SteveinTurkey said:

I think that you may be mistaking the MGF sales figures with the Mazda MX5 as the best selling sports car in the UK!

Haven't got time to search any further but someone on the MX5 forum agrees with me - http://www.mx5oc.co.uk/forum/forums/p/12167/72651....

[MGJohn]

bgunn said:

A series was designed in 1951-52..

MGF sold very well in the early years, as the production figures show:

http://www.aronline.co.uk/blogs/facts-and-figures/...

Considering it was cobbled together from bits of Metro, it made good money for Rover.

"Cobbled together" ... That's cobblers ...

I have just bought an old P-Reg MGF from another PHer. A very recent MoT failure with a sheet as long as your arm.. The first MG 2-seater I've owned since I sold the last of a succession of five MGBs back in 1983. Looking forward to sorting this little beauty.

By the way, the much maligned Metro in all its forms was well loved by many buyers looking for a small car back in the 1980s and 1990s.

In some respects, it was a tad over-engineered. For instance, Four Piston non-sliding Front Brake Calipers .... how's that for engineering overkill..

Many vehicles then and since considered superior had far more inferior single piston Brake Calipers which because of their sliding operation, are much more prone to problems than those fitted to the MK1 Metros.

When they "Roverised" the Metro around 1990, these had a single piston Brake Caliper like most other ordinary production cars have today.

[greggy50]

Agree with you on the brakes at least John have them on my Mini and they are very good!

3 bleed nipples caused some confusion though...

[drivin_me_nuts]

had excellent brakes, I do remember that. I do wonder if they ordered too many and decided to fit them to the gearbox for a laugh so the shaft just slid its way out. The A box whine... the precursor to yet another £200 fix from the many exchange and mart metro gearbox repair centers. Flawed design that. Shonky engineering.

[MGJohn]

greggy50 said:

Agree with you on the brakes at least John have them on my Mini and they are very good!

3 bleed nipples caused some confusion though...

Three nipples ~ Scaramanderesque. Metros ~ Rocket Science for some...

I bought my MK1 MG Metro new and it was never serviced professionally, only by amateur me. It did start to fall to bits though, fifteen years and 100,000+ hard miles later. The engine/gearbox assembly lived on in another A Series car.

By servicing it myself I thought I had invalidated the corrosion warranty as I never had it pro-checked as part of the warranty conditions. Even so, when perforations started in the leading edge of the bonnet over five years from new, it was replaced free no questions asked.

Bought new over thirty years ago. A third of a century just to get things into perspective. It wasn't even Rocket Science then let alone now although apparently it is to some.

There again, I must have had the only good one. Yes, that's it apart from my lifelong friend's one which he bought new soon after taking drive in my "tarted up Metro" .... his words.. So soon after, his new car had the next digit in the registration series.

Correction, in view of the masses of evidence on this thread, we had the only two good ones.

[drivin_me_nuts]

Probably. That or most just disolved and their owners bought the rather good Nissan Micra that soon became the Nana's favourite.

[bgunn]

MGJohn said:

"Cobbled together" ... That's cobblers ...

It was put in production for a couple of hundred million quid. The original Metro cost more to put into production some 10 or 15 years prior, so YES, it WAS cobbled together by a crack team of engineers in a very much 'off the radar' style.

I'm not saying that made it bad, but Rover was so cash strapped that it really tested the ingenuity of the engineers who designed the cars.

[MGJohn]

drivin_me_nuts said:

Probably. That or most just disolved and their owners bought the rather good Nissan Micra that soon became the Nana's favourite.

You point scorer ...

Bit like my father's corrosion riddled Toyota then. 15-love ...

[MGJohn]

bgunn said:

MGJohn said:

"Cobbled together" ... That's cobblers ...

It was put in production for a couple of hundred million quid. The original Metro cost more to put into production some 10 or 15 years prior, so YES, it WAS cobbled together by a crack team of engineers in a very much 'off the radar' style.

I'm not saying that made it bad, but Rover was so cash strapped that it really tested the ingenuity of the engineers who designed the cars.

You can say that again.