RE: TVR sold to British buyer?

[SuperBaaaad]

Twincam16 said:

The problem with using an LS engine is that it puts whatever they come up with in the firing line of the Corvette, which will probably undercut it in every LHD market and make it look a bit pointless, especially once you've factored in the enormous GM dealer network.

Whilst looks are entirely subjective, Corvettes are pretty ugly and LHD. I still think the TVR brand has a lot of equity, and were a new model to appear, LS engined or not it would sell.

[EdT]

JonRB said:

The massive interest generated here on PH by this news suggests that the name, and image, still counts for a lot.

+1

[DonkeyApple]

touching cloth said:

Nice to see Autocar extending journalistic excellence

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/tvr-thr...


Seriously?


So well known that they opted to use another car in the pic.


...and again


FFS, really!!

That's quite impressive.

This might help set the record straight. www.tvr-typhon.com (work in progress)

[German]

Well that's decided it, playing the lotto tonight. It's my birthday tomorrow, so some sort of future TVR funding lottery win would be a pretty good present

[pagani1]

Back to the future.
What do the new TVR company need to do?
Make a new Sagaris?
Make a new Griffith?
Jaguar/Porsche have locked out the £45-75K price band with F-Type Boxster/Cayman so do TVR need to be at £40k? Or join the fray?
What could they build for that?
Or do they need a completely fresh approach? curves not straight lines, round headlights not slanties
Z4/SLK segment is ripe for a decent sportscar, 2 seats, engine up front, rear wheel drive, 6 cylinders, roof? or hood?
A GM V8 for top of the range and perhaps more musclular wings than the 6 cylinder.
I'm not good enough to draw a body style so help?

[jas xjr]

Twincam16 said:

CDP said:

Surely they could use the original ECUs? If not the US tuning industry is massive so expertise in making these things run shouldn't be too hard to come by.

Personally I can't see a stigma with the idea of an LS engine. The Rover engine never hurt the Chimera, in fact a power unit with a known reliable heritage might be just be the reassurance a lot of previous owners might need.

The problem with using an LS engine is that it puts whatever they come up with in the firing line of the Corvette, which will probably undercut it in every LHD market and make it look a bit pointless, especially once you've factored in the enormous GM dealer network.

I reckon they'd be better off cosying up to Jaguar. If you think about it, market forces have led us to a top-of-the-range F-type that is only available with a manual gearbox, weighs about the same as a landfill site and is stuffed full of very un-sporty electronic toys.

I've no doubt the F-type will sell well, but I reckon there's still a market - not enormous, but enough to sustain small-scale production - of people who really wanted a 'return to the E-type' and feel let down by the F-type.

Use the F-type's 5-litre V8, optionally supercharged, mated to an old-school six-speed manual gearbox. Put it in a lightweight glassfibre-bodied car. Carry over some of the EU-required electronics from the F-type to save money, throw in a Jaguar mechanical warranty and allow it to be serviced in Jaguar dealerships, and add an interior that's stylish and comfortable, but not overloaded with electronic tat.

Keeping the car simple and raw should also help to keep costs down, and getting the engines in a crate from Bridgend will avoid the pitfalls that come with attempting to build your own V8.

Be realistic about how many you'll build and I reckon it's a flier.

why would jaguar be interested ? cannot see it myself

[CDP]

I'm just hoping that they haven't bought the rights to Jeremy Clarkson's electric P45 and added a cheap Chinese generator as a hybrid range extender...

[JonRB]

jas xjr said:

why would jaguar be interested ? cannot see it myself

Yes, that would be the fly in the ointment, for sure.

[Stuart J]

If they re engineer existing models does that make it easier to get through all the crash & emissions legislation as they have already passed that, would that be a good place to start to keep development costs down initially & get some revenue flowing & add selling genuine spares as well. There are less & less TVR's left, values have probably bottomed out so as time goes on supporting them could be a nice little earner as good ones in a few years will start to demand a decent price.

As for new models lets just pray it is a TVR & not a rebadged " fill in the gap " By all means use another power plant , gearbox etc, that will help with emissions legislation but it needs the character. Alfa are about to bring the 4C to the market, 52K for 240 bhp but light & agile & the list of buyers quieng to get one is huge. Maybe TVR need someone like KTM to help them design a tub, borrow bits from elsewhere, no reason it cant have a V6 or as in the case of the Alpha the rumoured Maserati on a stretched tub with a V8. The days of thundering brutes made of fibreglass with horrendous emissions whilst loved by many will be fighting a loosing battle with the eurocrats who are trying to legislate against fun & life. To build a profitable sustainable business it has to be done with the blinkers off.

I wish them every success but hope more than anything it comes back mainly if not totally British owned & in a form that wont be a 5 year flash in the Pan. The marque is to great & deserves to come back long & strong & not a flash in the pan with a failing kit car carrying a once proud badge

[gsuk1]

CDP said:

Surely they could use the original ECUs? If not the US tuning industry is massive so expertise in making these things run shouldn't be too hard to come by.

Personally I can't see a stigma with the idea of an LS engine. The Rover engine never hurt the Chimera, in fact a power unit with a known reliable heritage might be just be the reassurance a lot of previous owners might need.

They could carry over the Engine Management System yes, with just some fairly simple re-tuning to handle the different car weight/fuel type etc.
But don't confuse the engine management with traction control, stability control etc. They are completely separate systems (though they do talk to one another). The stability control will have to be developed specifically for the TVR, and that's what costs the money.

[storminnorman]

pagani1 said:

Back to the future.
What do the new TVR company need to do?
Make a new Sagaris?
Make a new Griffith?
Jaguar/Porsche have locked out the £45-75K price band with F-Type Boxster/Cayman so do TVR need to be at £40k? Or join the fray?
What could they build for that?
Or do they need a completely fresh approach? curves not straight lines, round headlights not slanties
Z4/SLK segment is ripe for a decent sportscar, 2 seats, engine up front, rear wheel drive, 6 cylinders, roof? or hood?
A GM V8 for top of the range and perhaps more musclular wings than the 6 cylinder.
I'm not good enough to draw a body style so help?

it would make sense for them to start small with a griff replacement, I think the crux of it is the engine. I can't see them getting hold of the F-Type engine as mentioned above, and while the GM LS is a good option they then have the corvette to contend with.
Not going to be easy and I wish them the best of luck, whoever they are.

One question for TVR owners and enthusiasts - how would you view this incarnation? If it turns out to be TVR by name only (TreVoR's Broom if you will) with completely new personnel and ideas - is it still the same marque we all know and love?

[gsuk1]

JonRB said:

The Speed6 engine is actually an absolutely awesome engine now it has been completely sorted and the problems with the original design have been identified and rectified. There is nothing crap about it at all.

Maybe you could take your regurgitated second-hand Clarkson-inspired opinions elsewhere? Or get your facts right. Either works for me.

Hmmm I read your comment and thought I should do some research so typed: "TVR Speed6 engine" into Google and it auto corrected with:
"tvr speed 6 engine problems" and
"tvr speed 6 engine rebuild"...

I think I'll stand by my "Crap Engine" comment....

[JonRB]

Stuart J said:

If they re engineer existing models does that make it easier to get through all the crash & emissions legislation as they have already passed that, would that be a good place to start to keep development costs down initially & get some revenue flowing & add selling genuine spares as well. There are less & less TVR's left, values have probably bottomed out so as time goes on supporting them could be a nice little earner as good ones in a few years will start to demand a decent price.

No TVRs since the Tasmin have been crash tested as all have been registered with SVA or Low Volume Approval, which do not require crash testing.

Values of the Sagaris have not bottomed out - they keep climbing and have now passed what the cars were new.

[Twincam16]

jas xjr said:

why would jaguar be interested ? cannot see it myself

I suppose they could be to Jaguar what Bowler is to Land-Rover.

[900T-R]

Well TVR went through different phases with the owner of the time putting hisvery personal mark on things - Trevor Wilkinson, Martin Lilley, Peter Wheeler. It still remained very quintessentially TVR all along - so I don't see why it would be something different under new ownership. In fact, I hope the new owner will firmly impose a strong vision on things on the marque.

[Garlick]

gsuk1 said:

JonRB said:

The Speed6 engine is actually an absolutely awesome engine now it has been completely sorted and the problems with the original design have been identified and rectified. There is nothing crap about it at all.

Maybe you could take your regurgitated second-hand Clarkson-inspired opinions elsewhere? Or get your facts right. Either works for me.

Hmmm I read your comment and thought I should do some research so typed: "TVR Speed6 engine" into Google and it auto corrected with:
"tvr speed 6 engine problems" and
"tvr speed 6 engine rebuild"...

I think I'll stand by my "Crap Engine" comment....

Or, you could re-read Jon's post. There were early issues that are now well documented and the engines are strong as a result of retrospective fettling and upgrades. Some rebuilds offer comprehensive warranties to back that up (you need to be sure of success when offering high mileage warranties)

Knowing what we know now the SS engine could be made again today, very successfully indeed. Although I'm not sure why I typed this as I suspect you have your hands over your ears saying 'La, La not listening'.

[CDP]

Stuart J said:

If they re engineer existing models does that make it easier to get through all the crash & emissions legislation as they have already passed that, would that be a good place to start to keep development costs down initially & get some revenue flowing & add selling genuine spares as well. There are less & less TVR's left, values have probably bottomed out so as time goes on supporting them could be a nice little earner as good ones in a few years will start to demand a decent price.

If possible, genuine spares would be a very good idea. It would keep the existing ownership (and best potential customers) onboard and generate real revenue.

Stuart J said:

Maybe TVR need someone like KTM to help them design a tub, borrow bits from elsewhere, no reason it cant have a V6 or as in the case of the Alpha the rumoured Maserati on a stretched tub with a V8. The days of thundering brutes made of fibreglass with horrendous emissions whilst loved by many will be fighting a loosing battle with the eurocrats who are trying to legislate against fun & life. To build a profitable sustainable business it has to be done with the blinkers off.

This is Britain: there are loads of excellent companies who could help develop a tub. I can think of several good ones (who aren't household names) straight off the top of my head. Having said that, I can't help thinking a well designed steel chassis couldn't do the job safely and retain the benefits of low cost. Especially if you integrate a cage into the design.

[ugg10]

gsuk1 said:

They could carry over the Engine Management System yes, with just some fairly simple re-tuning to handle the different car weight/fuel type etc.
But don't confuse the engine management with traction control, stability control etc. They are completely separate systems (though they do talk to one another). The stability control will have to be developed specifically for the TVR, and that's what costs the money.

TVR - traction control/stability control - sorry does not compute ;-)

if the chassis is designed correctly then no ABS and no traction control is OK - see what the Ultima does without these, all part of the charm and the challenge !

[JonRB]

gsuk1 said:

Hmmm I read your comment and thought I should do some research so typed: "TVR Speed6 engine" into Google and it auto corrected with:
"tvr speed 6 engine problems" and
"tvr speed 6 engine rebuild"...

I think I'll stand by my "Crap Engine" comment....

Then you clearly have no clue what you are talking about. You could just as easily type "M3 vanos" into google and read all about the Vanos failures on the M3 and conclude BMW engines are crap too.

Garlick said:

Or, you could re-read Jon's post. There were early issues that are now well documented and the engines are strong as a result of retrospective fettling and upgrades. Some rebuilds offer comprehensive warranties to back that up (you need to be sure of success when offering high mileage warranties)

Knowing what we know now, the S6 engine could be made very successfully indeed. Although I'm not sure why I typed this as I suspect you have your hands over your ears saying 'La, La not listening'.

Exactly so.

[CDP]

JonRB said:

gsuk1 said:

Hmmm I read your comment and thought I should do some research so typed: "TVR Speed6 engine" into Google and it auto corrected with:
"tvr speed 6 engine problems" and
"tvr speed 6 engine rebuild"...

I think I'll stand by my "Crap Engine" comment....

Then you clearly have no clue what you are talking about. You could just as easily type "M3 vanos" into google and read all about the Vanos failures on the M3 and conclude BMW engines are crap too.

The speed 6 engine is expensive and whether the reputation is grounded or not it unfortunately carries one. I don't think most TVR buyers have anything like the money of Ferrari owners and will be more than prepared to accept a bought in engine in return for the peace of mind that brings.

Also, start off with a stock LS engine and just think of the tuning potential.