RE: Porsche 911 GT3 (991): Review
Discussion
Ok, so the manwell isnt an option for the GT3.............. but what about the inevitable GT3RS?
Yes, the GT3RS is the ultimate of the NA Porsche breed which is primarily marketed as a track day special, but its also the most, to coin a phrase, "unplugged" of the porsche breed
Which will be more important to Porsche........ fastest lap time or most involving driver experience?
I cant see the RS being anything else than a PDK, but would a ticky box for an ultra slick 7 speed manual make an appearance... id like to think so
Yes, the GT3RS is the ultimate of the NA Porsche breed which is primarily marketed as a track day special, but its also the most, to coin a phrase, "unplugged" of the porsche breed
Which will be more important to Porsche........ fastest lap time or most involving driver experience?
I cant see the RS being anything else than a PDK, but would a ticky box for an ultra slick 7 speed manual make an appearance... id like to think so
[b]CALLIGRAPHY[\b]
I'll get round to the odd title of this post. There is no doubting that IF the 991 GT3 was available in a manual as well as the PDK it would appeal to a wider audience...
Having said that, the notion of the 991 GT3 having a manual box is probably beyond wishful thinking...
Would it be right in thinking that the development of the core characteristics of this next gen GT3 is defined by what is possible by having a PDK? Would the dynamics of this car even be the same using a traditional drive train?
It would certainly go through it's own development program because it is so fundamentally different.
Let's just think for a minute why someone would want a manual over a PDK - ON THE ROAD. Ok so every now and again we all go for a countryside blast and you may want to feel 'more involved' in the drive - but 90% of the time we aren't all peddling hard to and from our destinations. The majority of your drive would benefit from a PDK no? Making the traffic jams and slow manoeuvres (lets get real) hassle free and easier on the clutch leg. Even for those of us who do go for a frequent pedal through the Welsh wonderland - we aren't all awesome enough to extract the most out of a manual car and arguably a PDK is going to help you extract more performance from the car and allow the less talented of us to get that little bit closer to feeling the dynamics of such a great car closer to it's limits.
Track use is different - sure - but lets think, if you are after lap times a PDK will be more reliable and almost always faster with the same driver behind a manual. However If you want to feel 'involved in the drive' and 'as one with the car' would you really want to step into the very latest generation car with a manual gear box - OR - would you want to step back a generation (to 997) to really try and synchronise your senses with the more 'organic' characteristics of a car specifically developed with a manual in mind? That is what you are looking for after all right? To hone your talents as a manual driver? Nothing quite like going old school for that. It will probably cost you less if you have any interaction with the scenery too?
So, if anything, would it be worth saying that the manual cars out there have become even more special than they were before? Like receiving a hand written letter in this digital age - perfecting your calligraphy skills today stands out more than they ever did - especially with a quill!
So don't mourn the manual - preserve what is out there and maximise them for what they are and marvel at where we are now - for today we have the best of both worlds.
I'll get round to the odd title of this post. There is no doubting that IF the 991 GT3 was available in a manual as well as the PDK it would appeal to a wider audience...
Having said that, the notion of the 991 GT3 having a manual box is probably beyond wishful thinking...
Would it be right in thinking that the development of the core characteristics of this next gen GT3 is defined by what is possible by having a PDK? Would the dynamics of this car even be the same using a traditional drive train?
It would certainly go through it's own development program because it is so fundamentally different.
Let's just think for a minute why someone would want a manual over a PDK - ON THE ROAD. Ok so every now and again we all go for a countryside blast and you may want to feel 'more involved' in the drive - but 90% of the time we aren't all peddling hard to and from our destinations. The majority of your drive would benefit from a PDK no? Making the traffic jams and slow manoeuvres (lets get real) hassle free and easier on the clutch leg. Even for those of us who do go for a frequent pedal through the Welsh wonderland - we aren't all awesome enough to extract the most out of a manual car and arguably a PDK is going to help you extract more performance from the car and allow the less talented of us to get that little bit closer to feeling the dynamics of such a great car closer to it's limits.
Track use is different - sure - but lets think, if you are after lap times a PDK will be more reliable and almost always faster with the same driver behind a manual. However If you want to feel 'involved in the drive' and 'as one with the car' would you really want to step into the very latest generation car with a manual gear box - OR - would you want to step back a generation (to 997) to really try and synchronise your senses with the more 'organic' characteristics of a car specifically developed with a manual in mind? That is what you are looking for after all right? To hone your talents as a manual driver? Nothing quite like going old school for that. It will probably cost you less if you have any interaction with the scenery too?
So, if anything, would it be worth saying that the manual cars out there have become even more special than they were before? Like receiving a hand written letter in this digital age - perfecting your calligraphy skills today stands out more than they ever did - especially with a quill!
So don't mourn the manual - preserve what is out there and maximise them for what they are and marvel at where we are now - for today we have the best of both worlds.
Shibbyjames said:
Let's just think for a minute why someone would want a manual over a PDK - ON THE ROAD. Ok so every now and again we all go for a countryside blast and you may want to feel 'more involved' in the drive....Even for those of us who do go for a frequent pedal through the Welsh wonderland - we aren't all awesome enough to extract the most out of a manual car and arguably a PDK is going to help you extract more performance from the car and allow the less talented of us to get that little bit closer to feeling the dynamics of such a great car closer to it's limits.
It's all a little academic really. Could anybody make much use of a GT3's potential, whatever the gearbox -ON THE ROAD? Sneaking out at night may work, but make a habit of it, in the same places, and there's a good chance of the law finding you.Somebody pushing very hard, on a road
Something involving and less overwhelmingly potent makes more sense, especially if you (I) are not loaded with cash.
After spending a bit of time at a test day, It is only 4 wheel drive away from being nearly impossible to screw up with
Then again the 2-3 cars that had transmission issues on the track here in sport mode hopefully is not an indicator of whats
going to happen. a lot of the guys were Swiss, German and a couple Brits.
Porsche has made a car that can go on the track but its warranty is not good if you do. So it becomes the ultimate Poser car
I think you need to look at Magnus Walker, the Singer guys and the Early911s registry/ RGruppe to see where Porsches were still exciting
This car is Amazing It can make a good lap time with a novice with balls because you can't screw up with the nannies and if you do Porsche will charge
you to fix it.
If you have the money, by all means, you don't even need the skill driving a 911 they have programed it for, now they just need a Walter blow up doll
to come with
Then again the 2-3 cars that had transmission issues on the track here in sport mode hopefully is not an indicator of whats
going to happen. a lot of the guys were Swiss, German and a couple Brits.
Porsche has made a car that can go on the track but its warranty is not good if you do. So it becomes the ultimate Poser car
I think you need to look at Magnus Walker, the Singer guys and the Early911s registry/ RGruppe to see where Porsches were still exciting
This car is Amazing It can make a good lap time with a novice with balls because you can't screw up with the nannies and if you do Porsche will charge
you to fix it.
If you have the money, by all means, you don't even need the skill driving a 911 they have programed it for, now they just need a Walter blow up doll
to come with
I enjoyed watching the video where Andreas Preuninger discussed the gearbox and how you could simultaneously pull back on both the paddles and that would simulate you banging the clutch down and whacking loads of power on so you could initiate a drift in the car. He called it hooligan mode.
He also made the comment about doing it late at night when no one was around which I think is quite cool to hear from a bloke who you would expect to be all numbers and no "passion" which is clearly not the case.
He also made the comment about doing it late at night when no one was around which I think is quite cool to hear from a bloke who you would expect to be all numbers and no "passion" which is clearly not the case.
Edited by Ashley1987 on Friday 14th June 17:09
bulldong said:
I would guess that more than half the people on here criticising the fact that it's not a manual either can't afford the car in the first place so knocking it is ridiculous, or even if it was available in manual they wouldn't have the skills to drive it to the limit or as close to the limit as you can with the PDK. I include myself in both these statements.
I include myself too but I also doubt even 0.1% of performance car drivers could get anywhere near the limit of grip/traction even with a PDK.The 911 GT3 has been my dream car for some years since I was given a high speed passenger ride in a mk1 996. Can't see that this car is going to change that. I also can't really see how cars 2 or 3 times its price are likely to be more exhilarating. Yeah its a hundred grand, but an optioned 458 is pushing towards £250K these days...In fact, if you compare the prices of the 996 GT3/Ferrari 360 to the 991 GT3/458, the car isn't bad value! I think we should also celebrate the fact that we can still buy a n/a car that will hit 9,000 RPM! They're a dying breed!
Chris's review made me very very sad. The bottom line is, now that the GT3 has gone PDK only, and the new V12 Vantage S is automated manual too, anyone who wants a really special car with a manual gearbox is s
t out of luck.
It's not just the end of an era, it's the end of choice. I WANT to shift gears on my own, AND I want a special car (more special than a boggo C2S)... seems that choice is no longer mine to make. This is a very, very sad day, no matter how good this car is.
If Porsche (and near-bankrupt Aston) have given up, there's no hope at all...
t out of luck.It's not just the end of an era, it's the end of choice. I WANT to shift gears on my own, AND I want a special car (more special than a boggo C2S)... seems that choice is no longer mine to make. This is a very, very sad day, no matter how good this car is.
If Porsche (and near-bankrupt Aston) have given up, there's no hope at all...
urban_alchemist said:
Chris's review made me very very sad. The bottom line is, now that the GT3 has gone PDK only, and the new V12 Vantage S is automated manual too, anyone who wants a really special car with a manual gearbox is st out of luck.
It's not just the end of an era, it's the end of choice. I WANT to shift gears on my own, AND I want a special car (more special than a boggo C2S)... seems that choice is no longer mine to make. This is a very, very sad day, no matter how good this car is.
If Porsche (and near-bankrupt Aston) have given up, there's no hope at all...
Perhaps the silver lining is that specialists like Noble and maybe the new TVR can build those cars and satisfy this demand. t out of luck.It's not just the end of an era, it's the end of choice. I WANT to shift gears on my own, AND I want a special car (more special than a boggo C2S)... seems that choice is no longer mine to make. This is a very, very sad day, no matter how good this car is.
If Porsche (and near-bankrupt Aston) have given up, there's no hope at all...
urban_alchemist said:
Chris's review made me very very sad. The bottom line is, now that the GT3 has gone PDK only, and the new V12 Vantage S is automated manual too, anyone who wants a really special car with a manual gearbox is st out of luck.
It's not just the end of an era, it's the end of choice. I WANT to shift gears on my own, AND I want a special car (more special than a boggo C2S)... seems that choice is no longer mine to make. This is a very, very sad day, no matter how good this car is.
If Porsche (and near-bankrupt Aston) have given up, there's no hope at all...
Very well put. t out of luck.It's not just the end of an era, it's the end of choice. I WANT to shift gears on my own, AND I want a special car (more special than a boggo C2S)... seems that choice is no longer mine to make. This is a very, very sad day, no matter how good this car is.
If Porsche (and near-bankrupt Aston) have given up, there's no hope at all...
And also why I have bought a Lotus Exige V6.
Afternoon fellow enthusiasts,
It is my contention that this car is not in fact a GT3. Before I am stoned for heresy, I would like to cite some experience. I’m fortunate enough to drive a 997.2 GT3 and a 981 Boxster S PDK, so I understand the manual vs. PDK debate. This however, has never been the real issue for me.
The GT3 has, until 991, always been positioned as a Porsche racing car with number plates: same engine, same lightweight design, same chassis…and personally that has always been the appeal. Engineering proven in racing means cutting edge precision and a certainty of performance under the most intense conditions. It won’t of course last forever, but as i’m not a racing driver I would never be able to break it, and that feels superb.
So given that the new 991 cup car has the old Metzger engine, a lightweight chassis and as far as I know steering from the front wheels only, the GT3 road car has no major engineering fundamentals in common with its track counterpart. It is that simple. Of course i hear and believe that the new car is every inch as good as the review, but a GT3 it is not.
It is my contention that this car is not in fact a GT3. Before I am stoned for heresy, I would like to cite some experience. I’m fortunate enough to drive a 997.2 GT3 and a 981 Boxster S PDK, so I understand the manual vs. PDK debate. This however, has never been the real issue for me.
The GT3 has, until 991, always been positioned as a Porsche racing car with number plates: same engine, same lightweight design, same chassis…and personally that has always been the appeal. Engineering proven in racing means cutting edge precision and a certainty of performance under the most intense conditions. It won’t of course last forever, but as i’m not a racing driver I would never be able to break it, and that feels superb.
So given that the new 991 cup car has the old Metzger engine, a lightweight chassis and as far as I know steering from the front wheels only, the GT3 road car has no major engineering fundamentals in common with its track counterpart. It is that simple. Of course i hear and believe that the new car is every inch as good as the review, but a GT3 it is not.
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